A friend here, in response to a post about grieving, mentioned CODA meetings. I am probably in dire need for some of those as well. Not only do I have a codependent marriage, but there is the sickest kind of codependency between my Al Anon aunt and I (who has actually been my "pseudo-mom" since I was 4, for all intents and purposes). Typically, when I have relapsed, she relapses, and bad. The "wind stops blowing" and I get my a$$ in gear and start recovering right away, because it is what I KNOW to do through the lessons of the past and through AA (not relapsing in the first place is the bigger challenge, in my case, and I may not have another recovery- I could die in my next relapse, and I know this). But her CODA relapses go on for a long time after (no thanks to me breaking her trust again and again, every couple of years.) (And I will add here, "why TRUST that an alcoholic will stay sober forever, in the first place?" Expectations? Someone is not listening in those Al Anon meetings, I think.) (And yah, I know, I am taking her inventory, which I am not supposed to do... see MY codependency, even in this message I am typing?) Yucko...
She can become quite nasty though, and domineering, and controlling. It is nauseating (I know, look at my part....) and in her case, she is Al Anon so won't likely drop dead from her illness, like I could do in a drug/alcohol relapse. It is not as "urgent" that she "get with the program", and embarrassment over her lack of control over me still plagues her, I am sure, else why would she refuse to come to my Family Night at group? She is the Queen of Al Anon, right? She has had management positions in Service Work through them for years and years and years. She has taken Al Anon "on the road", and I am sure she has helped a hell of a lot of people ease their own suffering. But her own illness still plagues her. (AND ME!!!!!!) Partly because my alcoholism still plagues me and she cannot accept that. (Bingo?)
I try to set boundaries with her, and when I am "being strong" (not mean, just assertive) and doing so, she immediately feels threatened and starts to say things like, "Well, you are just overly emotional because of your addiction". For example, when I first came back from my relapse, she drove me to the Orthopedic Hand Center in my area to get my nerve-damaged arm checked out. I am a canvas painter, pianist, guitar player, surgery assistant, and could not use my dominant hand at all after a situation that left it numb and partially paralyzed. It was terrifying and devastating, thinking about what I was ever going to do if my abilities never returned. With all this going through my head right after the appointment, (plus the post-relapse pain and upset) I got into the car with her ("trapped" in the passenger seat), and she said, "You know, you just spent $10 on lunch for yourself earlier and you don't HAVE an extra $10 right now to waste like that." (She has no idea what money I have in the bank. None.) My response? "You know what, I am going through a really difficult moment emotionally and spiritually right now. You don't need to say something like that period, especially not right now!" Her response? "I am entitled to have an opinion. See.... you are just belligerant right now, because your emotions are out of control because of your addiction." Me- "Hell yes I am experiencing emotions, but they aren't necessarily out of control, you are just saying that because I was trying to set a boundary which I deserve to have, at 38 years old. Your opinion about where I spent $10 while I am going through a very painful time is not warranted." Her- "Yah. Well, you're the addict here and you are out of control."...... and so on, and wanting so badly to crash through the passenger window with my shoulder and just roll out onto the pavement and die in the ditch. That is how much button-pushing this shit delivers for me.
Anyone relate?
I am, with the help of my soon-to-be-ex (who is actually a big help where she and I and our sick interactions are concerned), trying right now to re-instill the boundary that was up when I was married. It is this: "I am almost 40 years old. I have to take care of myself. I make my own decisions about money and about my surroundings and about my personal life. I require a phone call if anyone is going to stop by (and in her case sometimes merely to "snoop") if it is in the evening, unless it ios an emergency. Please don't make a habit of coming by and constantly checking, checking, checking, on a daily basis." That is my usual boundary, and it worked well when there was a "Man of the House" living here (although not really physically here). Now I will again be on my own and living alone. I hope this boundary sticks. It has to.
Eventually, the complaints from her over the past weeks got so numerous, I asked her to please make a list of things she would like to bring to my attention, and show me the list when we have time to sit down and talk about it. NOT when I have just left a medical appointment, or like when the crap hit the fan again right after I got my gums burned up at the dentists with a laser, and not when I am trying to write a 2,000 word research paper with citations, which I have to do every week, for class.
I have gotten no such suggested "list" as of yet. (lol)
But any additional suggestions would be helpful here. I know we focus on AA here, but CODA sh*! can be a BIG FAT OVERWHELMING TRIGGER, especially when our emotional plate is full, in early recovery or re-treading. There are times where as much as I love and appreciate her, I would like to explode on her like the A-Bomb over Nagasaki.
(((((hugs))))) Joni
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
hiya i read through your post and it must be hard to have someone checking up on you and nagging about small things like how you spend money on a lunch. I dont know, i have not had this type of problem because i dont speak to my Mother very often. I stay the heck away most times due to other reasons. When i read what you say i do feel it must be hard for you but i think i can relate to how your Aunt is acting and possibly feeling.
I guess you already know why shes nagging and stuff and that shes worried for you. i think she cares for you a heck of a lot and she is damn well petrified and concerned that you are going to kill yourself with drinking because it is a terminal illness.
She is wanting you to get well and to be safe and maybe that means she is desperate to see you acting in ways she thinks are well. She is powerless over what you do so has to watch you relapse and the nagging i think is a way of trying to get some control of the situation.
EDIT: And maybe the thinking goes, if you spend 10 on lunch then she see that is irresponsible (in the heat of the moment so to speak), & irresponsible will set you up for a relapse (i dont think this but i have thought similar about relatives when ive been really worried about them, it doesnt make it rigt though to nag someone like that). And shes scared a lot about you relapsing or getting self into a position where you are trouble. Its not right for her to do it though and just makes life miserable when someones nagging like that eh. But i reckon that is what a lot of mothers do, if addictions in the picture or not.
Also can i say my experience with mothers and mother figures, well mothers, mine nags about things. A lot do, whether or not drinking is in the situation or not. If a child were doing something else they dont like, many a mother would nag ad get on their case about that. Well i think most mothers would and some would nag the crap out of that child and not worry about boundaries at all.
Some mothers nag for no real reason that i can see, i mean they just do it and drive people nuts doing it!
I got no words or good tips to cope with her behaviour cause Ive not had someone nag me and stuff like that. well normal mother stuff but not about addictions. What happens if you suggest she needs a meeting? When shes having a go at you?People close to me suggest I need a meeting when I am acting in not so good ways. It seems to help.
I hope what Ive said is OK and it is not offensive. I do hope you get to feel better.
I guess a big chunk of what your task right now for dealing with this, is to stay sober and do the program as much as possible. And you doing all the right things, sharing about whats going on.
Also thinking, me being on the other end, worried about my husbands drinking, wanting to control him and know what hes doing and hes not really drunk that bad yet. Being around alkis can drive someone nuts, well from my small experience on the otherside I have been driven so crazy in the head by his behaviour.
If she doesnt do her program then it makes it harder for you. Maybe if you say that it might help? Like suggest she needs to try get to some meetings and do her program cause shes acting in ways that are not helping you when you are trying to stay sober. Heck is that a bad thing to say?
Because its not your job to take care of her. You are entitled to boundaries. I think you are doing really well to be coping so well. If she really drives you nuts then you got to take care of yourself and not feel like you should be doing stuff for her or putting up with nagging to make her feel better. Like you goto put yourself first dont you.
I hope someone else posts who can relate more. take care
-- Edited by slugcat on Friday 30th of April 2010 03:47:35 AM
-- Edited by slugcat on Friday 30th of April 2010 04:48:20 AM
Well Joni, being codependent has assets and defects...I just want to rid myself of the sick parts. It's good that I am motivated to be a therapist and you a nurse etc...It is good to care about others and have empathy. Nonetheless, in going to that meeting...boy did i find out I belong there. When I got to AA I had answered yes to 17 of the 20 questions...I had/have just about ALL the patterns of a codepedendent.
Either way. Love ya....but only if you love me...and only I only love me if you love me and say so often (joke). Love,
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Hi Joni, I'll respond later when I have more time. I did work the coda program, along with my AA for the first 3.5 years and I benefited greatly. I wrote a goal that someday I wanted to be happily married and have a peaceful life. Well, this is year 17 with my wonderful wife and it couldn't have happened without work in that program.
Right on Pink Chip on the love statement. Sorry you're going thru those "toxic" relationships Joni...That is what we use to call them when I was doing what Pink Chip now does. A lot of it is toxic because one of the participants is addicted to finding acceptance, appreciation and validation from others for "their" thoughts, feelings and behaviors. They are closed minded and self centered (gosh the alcoholism thingy again!!) and will not (not cannot) consider beyond themselves. Their program is a "Me" program not a "We" program. For me it gets co-depenant or enabling when what I do in it continues to have it operate and/or get worse or more toxic. Again the question what am "I" doing in this relationship or "what is my part in it". Self examination is not the same as self blame.
Today if I sense I am putting myself in a non-secure situation (mind, body, spirit or emotions) I won't. "No" is a complete sentence. My responsibility is "Self" control and I no longer attempt outside management. Happiness is an inside job and I get it when I decide which is pretty much 24/7.
I tried CODA and ACOA and both took me back to my roots in Al-Anon.
Thanks for all the responses. Well, when I get this sobriety thing MASTERED (jk) then I will work on the rest....(???) Nope doesn't work that way I guess.
I think I will dig our my Melody Beatty books again.... Codependent No More is one I have not read for about 10 years.... time to take that book for another spin.
thanks again for the support and the laughs, too.
((((hugs))))
__________________
~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
