OMG.... keeping quite about the person you spoke to who got agitated about the fact that you used vanilla exract, and then BAKED it for how long (alcohol evaporates out of it when baked in such a miniscule amount)------- but I won't. Because I ama raw nerve, that's why. But I can be of a conratulatory nature, because you did the right hting in calling her. I am so glad to hear that. If at first the phone does not provide comfort or leace, try, try again, and with another alcoholic. At least she answered, which is more than I can say for a lot of people.

Take care and happy indulging! I just went through about 8 BIG local Italian bakery brownies with about a half inch of dense cream cheese icing on each, in about 3 days flat! LOL

Thanks all. The brownies are not for me, they are for some girls who have been really supportive of me. I had one but that's plenty! I just also felt bad because the girl who got snippy about it was one of the people I made them for so now I feel weird about it. Boo.

In terms of the vanilla, even though I don't think I'd drink it, I threw it away. I told my sponsor about all this and she had brilliant advice: If you're gonna think about it, get rid of it. Sort of a "when in doubt, don't." I asked about my mouthwash and she had the same response. Then told me to get crest which is alcohol free. So while I don't see myself EVER drinking mouthwash, I chucked it because what if the TASTE makes me crave... I felt a little silly throwing that stuff out, but definitely less silly than I'd feel waking up in a strangers bed with my pants revolving on a ceiling fan...

Sigh. Supposed to give those brownies out tonight and now I feel all self conscious.

Some people are downright allergic to alcohol and small amounts will effect them. Other people, when they have small amounts will obsess over it, wonder if they've relapsed and possible tie one on with the thought of having to start over/pick up a white chip for basically nothing. While others don't have reaction at all or think twice about it. So there is no straight answer except it doesn't hurt to be careful especially in your first couple of years. Personally I fall into the last column. I've had my share of slices of rum cake and it didn't make me drunk nor did I want to drink. I did want to eat more cake, but that's normal for me.

Congrats on 2 weeks! Do it again for a month chip.




-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 26th of April 2010 05:11:31 PM

Congratulations on two weeks

My experience matches that of Deans, but like your sponsor says "when in doubt...."

That was good advice, if you do start obsessing about it, or the mouthwash, chuck it

There are trace amounts of alcohol in Orange juice even, I know people so freaked out they don't consider an alcoholic that drinks OJ truly sober, right on, whatever floats yer boat ya know? My sobriety is for me not for others to judge, so I stick with what is comfortable.

two stories:

One I bought some health food tea when I was buying vitamins, some chinese herbal stuff, supposed to make you poop or something, and I'm drinking it while on the phone...sip...hmm....this tastes funny....sip...sip....hmmm.....

So I read the label it says "some fermentation may take place so could contain small amounts of alcohol"

it tasted like wine someone poured vodka into is what it tasted like

in a flash "no one will ever know, I could drink both bottles and blah blah" and into the sink they went.

It was weird for about an hour, nothing over the top, just weird brain blah blah and soon it was yesterdays news....now if I need to go poop I don't buy chinese devil tea, thats for sure, (coffee works wooo hoooooo)

second

After maybe IDK 5? 6? 7? years sober once I washed out my mouth with "old people" listerine, you know the stuff that looks and tastes like battery acid at my grandparents house.

It hurt like no mans business, I started swishing and gargling and it brought me to my knees and tears to my eyes, I had quit smoking a few years before, and hadn't drank in years..

Alcohol kills every cell it comes in contact with, that's why it is used as an antiseptic, it kills EVERYTHING, smoking also kills your taste buds, so I had this whole mouth of of tender little tastebuds that I killed with that Listerine, it tasted like I burned my mouth on soup for 3 days....

Neither episode led to relapse, I don't particularly care to repeat either episode, but like Dean, I will eat a dessert or pasta sauce that is cooked with some liqueur or wine but draw the line at say terramisu or eating the olives out of someones martinis, i just use judgment, and if I get weird about it I stop and don't do it again.

Alcohol in food - whatever is right for you, but be careful and examine your motives.

Am I eating this coq au vin because it has wine in the sauce or because it's got chicken in the sauce? Is there an alternative I could have?

Early on I bought some Limoncello Ice Cream - contains 5% of limoncello liquer. the liquer was 20%, so I calculated that it had 5% of 20%, i.e. it was 1% alcohol. Now that to me is pretty strong, so I didn't eat it, but I obsessed about well I'd be eating it, not drinking it, but then I thought that I was thinking too damn much about it. Limoncello is a weird flavour for ice cream, I wouldn't have had it when I was drinking, so I came to teh conclusion that I'd probably eat all 2 litres of it, which would give me 20cc of alcohol.

Another time I ate a Cranachan in a restaurant. This restaurant made two versions, one with vanilla flavouring and one with a tablespoon of malt whisky. I got the wrong one becasue I didn't ask for the alcohol free one. All the whisky was at the bottom and as soon as I got to the bottom I got that mmmmmmmmmmmmm tastes nice feeling, two more teaspoons of it and I realised oh shit this has whisky in it. Oh that messed my head big style.

So now, if it's uncooked I don't eat it. If it's cooked I'll eat it, I have no problem with steak and ale pie, I have no problem with christmas cake or mince pies, if I make them myself (then i know they haven't been doused with alcohol after baking.) But that's just me. I know for a fact that if I choose tiramisu and don't make sure it's alochol free, then I'm choosing to put alcohol in my body for no good reason.

Hi again white....
I feel sad that you are feeling insecure right now. It is just not fair for such a sweet, loving and giving person like yourself to feel that way!

I would be willing to wager that just about any alcoholic has bought a box of brownies from a gorcery store bakery and indulged, without ever looking at the ingredients for "real vs. fake extract". Or been to a dinner or Christmas function or Thanksgiving and had a brownie without the slightest thought of whether to ask about "real vs. fake extract". And I would certainly hope that said woman who got cranky about it will now leave the subject alone, because at this point it has little to do with recovery and more to do with her own problems, if she is still willing to, even in her own mind, make a stick about it.

My deodorant has alcohol. I might breath some when I spray it under my pits in the closed bathroom. The sugar-free popsicles I ate while I could eat nothing else for 3 days due to my gums being lasered by the dentist (yes, BURNED), contain "sugar alcohols", yet they did not get me drunk or into a relapse. The self-tanner I put on for a few days last weekt o keep from looking and feeling so "gray" post-relapse has alcohol in it, and UI slathered it all over my body repeatedly, and did not get drunk or into a relapse over it. BUT... that is just me. Like Larry said, we each have our own limitations with this kind if thing.

All I know is that I got sober because of a change int he way I view the world around me, and I choose to view it through spiritual eyeballs now. My motives and intentions and deep-seated agendas are what put me at risk of a drink, not brownies and popsicles. I did not get sober to isolate myself from picnics, Thanksgiving desserts or the bakery. AND, that is just how it works for THIS alcoholic,k one day at a time.

((((((hugs))))) and love and much esteem coming your way- anytime you need it, sweet girl.

Joni

again i say there are certain deserts I won't touch with yours these days.

My Sister in Law used to make Vodka Sorbets, loved them, but they're not for me now. Tiramisu with marsalla wine nononononono - I'll have the original, alcohol free version thanks, sherry trifle, no thanks, cream crowdie with scotch is out, liquer ice cream is a nono.

But coq au vin without the vin? Stroganoff without the red wine? It's just not the same with grape juice. (mind you it could work with balsamico, I'll have to try it, you'd get all the flavour notes and non of the alcohol.)It doesn't taste right to me. Steak and ale pie, beer battered cod?

For me it boils down to why? Am I eating this becasue it's got booze in it or am I eating this because it tastes good (and it's got meat in it?).

I still believe that the alcohol cooks off with heat, leaving the taste behind. If there's no heat then the alcohol plainly remains.

But, if i'm going to drink, I sure as hell wouldn't waste time, effort and money buggering about with a beef stroganoff - straight to the gin I think.

angelov8 wrote:

---

I was certain that some one here  (last month or so) posted stats on alcohol content remaining in cooked food.  Can anyone help me find that thread?

Still if anyone can find the content in cooked foods, that'd be great.

---

Does alcohol cook out?

Whether alcohol remains in a finished dish, and how much, depends on the cooking method. When foods are cooked under high heat for a long period of time, such as soups and stews, the majority of the alcohol evaporates out.

Pure alcohol boils at 173 degrees F., a lower temperature than water (212 degrees F.). Thus, you will find that recipes intending for some of the alcohol to remain will have instructions to add the alcohol near the end of the cooking process so it will not boil out. Obviously, uncooked recipes will retain the vast majority of the alcohol.

Some may be worried about serving a dish cooked with alcohol to a child, yet alcohol is a naturally-occurring substance in many foods, particularly fruits with a high sugar content such as very ripe apples. Keep in mind that the amount used in a recipe is usually very minimal and is spread out over a large volume of food, comparatively-speaking. It is a personal decision, of course. Still, it is a good idea for those on anti-abuse medication for alcohol problems to avoid foods cooked with alcohol.

Does the alcohol burn off?

Alcohol not only evaporates without heat, but the majority also burns off during the cooking process. How much remains in the dish depends on the cooking method and amount of cooking time. Those bourbon-soaked fruitcakes would have to turn into bricks before the alcohol evaporates. A bottle of Guinness in a long-simmered stew is not going to leave a significantly measurable alcohol residue, but will add a rich, robust flavor. A quick flambe may not burn off all the alcohol, whereas a wine reduction sauce will leave little if any alcohol content. Heat and time are the keys. Obviously, uncooked foods with alcohol will retain the most alcohol.

An alcohol burn-off chart has been compiled by the U.S. Department of Agriculture with information on how much alcohol remains in your food with specific cooking methods. Keep in mind that this is the percentage of alcohol remaining of the original addition.

If you are not a math whiz, the calculations might confuse you. For example, take a liquor that is 100-proof. This means it is 50 percent alcohol by volume. So a baked and/or simmered dish with 2 ounces (1/4 cup) of 100-proof liquor cooked for 1 hour will have 12.5 percent alcohol content remaining, about 1/4 ounce. Divide that by the amount of servings, and the quantity goes down proportionately (.0625 ounces per each of 4 servings). With liquors and liqueurs (even lower proof), seldom is more than 1/4 cup used in a recipe so as not to overpower the dish. (For reference, a standard shot or jigger of liquor at most bars contains about 1-1/2 ounces, but can range from 1 to 2 ounces.)

The same dish with 10-proof wine, or 5 percent alcohol by content, would end up with less than 2 percent alcohol content remaining after baking or simmering for 1 hour. Non-alcoholic beverages by U.S. law contain less than 1 percent alcohol. Longer cooking and/or higher heat gets rid of even more alcohol. If you're worried about legalities, long cooking should do the trick. Always inform your guests when you are cooking with alcohol in case they have allergies or health problems.

For more detailed information and explanation, consult the full article on Cooking With Alcohol and Alcohol Substitutions, which includes important information about how much alcohol remains in cooked foods and caution when using alcohol in frozen foods, plus tips and hints to help you make the right substitution choice. For alcohol substitutions, consult the Alcohol Substitution Chart.

 

Alcohol Burn-off Chart
Preparation Method	Percent Retained
alcohol added to boiling liquid & removed from heat	85%
alcohol flamed	75%
no heat, stored overnight	70%
baked, 25 minutes, alcohol not stirred into mixture	45%
Baked/simmered dishes with alcohol stirred into mixture:
15 minutes cooking time	40%
30 minutes cooking time	35%
1 hour cooking time	25%
1.5 hours cooking time	20%
2 hours cooking time	10%
2.5 hours cooking time	5%

Wow, cool, I started a whole big discussion! I think it had less to do with the whole issue of alcohol, granted, at 1/25 of a TEASPOON cooked at 350 for an hour it wouldn't occur to me to worry about such a thing. Even so, I went to the victim place in my head of "no good deed goes unpunished" y'know? That and, that I finally tried picking up the phone and basically got snapped at. When I saw this girl at the meeting last night, well she basically went to an earlier one to avoid me, so was leaving as I got there, and pretended not to see me. Nice. THIS IS WHY I DON'T TRUST WOMEN, PEOPLE!

Ahem. Deep breath. I will get into yesterday in another post because it was its own shitstorm that I got sober through 30 seconds at a damn time. Regarding alcohol in food (I just wrote 'food in alcohol', Freudian slips make my day!) I never realized how subjective it was! Wowzers. What I figured: and the way I intend to deal with it for now is: cooked alcohol in a recipe is okay, but it's not okay uncooked "e.g., chicken with a little bit of white wine used in the sauce, cooked over high heat for awhile, the F*%$ING 25th of a tsp of vanilla cooked to high heaven, etc. = safe. My port wine vinaigrette, tiramisu, champagne truffles, crepes suzette... sadly off the table. More's the pity because I do love setting a dish on fire in front of guests... So dramatic!)

All that said, even though I don't worry about it making me drunk in any way, I think that for me right now making something like coq au vin, penne vodka, etc. is something to avoid, for two reasons. 1) I think the taste would make me yearn for the real thing right now. 2) In terms of cooking, I tend to be from the Julia Child school of "and a little sherry for the sauce now... [pours a tablespoon of sherry into a pan] ...and a little sherry for me... [drinks straight from the bottle on national tv]" Yeah...


-- Edited by whitewhineoh on Tuesday 27th of April 2010 06:09:24 AM