it makes total sense

the short answer is gradually

and then suddenly (we notice it)

which, by the way is exactly the same way we reach bankruptcy or hit bottom

slowly and then suddenly

a few observations, the steps have what are known as "promises" as in if we do this like this, we get this, many meetings read the 9th step promises, but every step has promises

What those "gentlemen" were describing was the changes brought about as the result of working the steps.

this is what the 10th step promises are:

And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone, even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.

It's actually explained in the back of the book in one of the appendices:

SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE

The terms spiritual experience and spiritual awakening are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms.

Yet it is true that our first printing gave many readers the impression that these personality changes, or religious experiences, must be in the nature of sudden and spectacular upheavals. Happily for everyone, this conclusion is erroneous.

In the first few chapters a number of sudden revolutionary changes are described. Though it was not our intention to create such an impression, many alcoholics have nevertheless concluded that in order to recover they must acquire an immediate and overwhelming God-consciousness followed at once by a vast change in feeling and outlook.

Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations, though frequent, are by no means the rule. Most of our experiences are what the psychologist William James calls the educational variety because they develop slowly over a period of time. Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself. He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life; that such a change could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline. With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves.

Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it God-consciousness.

Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial.

We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

Herbert Spencer

Now there is some very important information there.

One is, this isn't a "self help" program

that such a change could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline

two: it has a definition of what what a spiritual awakening is

the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism

three: It tells us the 3 necessary ingredients for recovery

Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.

It tells us what can defeat us

Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial.

It tells us what are more religious members call what happens as the result of the steps:

Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it God-consciousness.

That means our less religious members call it a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism.

Last, it tells us that most of us have what is called "the educational variety" of the spiritual experience, that the change occurs gradually in the course of a few months (note the word newcomer)

Anyway, these are the changes you can expect by working the steps

-- Edited by AGO on Thursday 8th of April 2010 07:25:31 AM

I had heard that the obsession to drink could be removed if I prayed to have it removed.
I did that daily and at about 6 months and right about the time that I finished my 4th and 5th steps "It" happened.  I noticed that i wasn't thinking about drinking at all and haven't had a serious urge to drink since.  So every once in awhile I see someone with a pina colada and think, hmm that might be tasty by then I just laugh.  Never since that 6 month period have I had problems, been upset, did I think of drinking.

"All of a sudden, slowly!"

Sid,
Before We Are Halfway Through.

I have a few 24-hours behind me and I'm still scared to go into a bar. I don't grocery shop when I'm stressed out because the grocery stores here sell beer, wine & spirits.

I don't obsess any more...but I still have slippery thoughts.

Peace,
Rob

Hi Sid,

When did this occur?? quotting you: not thinking about drinking has become the new normal?

The way I experienced that new state of mind.  When I finally surrendered to the Program, with only one Question, finally in desperation, asking a God that I had no knowledge of, as: God, will you show me a different way? To this day Sid, still amazed and always will be, that with that question, and on my third failed attempt to end my own life, from the incomprhensible demoralization of never getting the Program, any way dont want to get off topic, but the Compulsion to Drink was lifted, and began going to a Meeting everyday of the week, my car was fueled with Gas, and I was fueled with FEAR that this compulsion that had been lifted might not stay, so in spite of the compulsion not to pick up a drink, at all, never thought about it,  at the same time was terrified of having  a Relapse, if that makes any sense at all.

Ok, Compulsion is Gone, a Meeting everyday, and only after working the Steps, and geting to the 4th Step, where all those toxic memories were buried,( I now believe that it was those very Toxic memories that would lead back to picking up a drink),  and then shared the 4th Step,  with another, an AA Counselor, Step 5, those were the moments that that fear of relapsing started to go away, and started feeling like I was now on the Winning Side of this Program....and continuing the Steps 6 ad 7, getting thru 8 and 9,  well Step 9 that took years. 

So Sid, not thinking about drinking has become the new normal?  rather for me, it was not the thought of a drink, but the fear of a relaspse, I have lived free of the thought of having a relapse, (drunk), for about 18 of my 19 1/2 years.

I do not live in Fear, but I do watch out, in the Speaker tape that was introduced this week, it was a man, Tom that had a zillion years of recovery in him, when he spoke of how a compulsion can come from out of the blue, and what to do about it, should any alcoholic be attacked by one, He had the solution.....

Hugs to you dear, and hope in some way I answered you question. 

Ok that was the long version, my suggestion, use J. D. to work the Steps with you, and when you have completed them, doing them with your heart and your HP,  you might just be surprised at how the thought of a drink will be something that was something from your Past, and not you life today.

Big Hugs,

Toodles, Toni

Hi Again Sid, listening to exactly what Jerry was saying, I thought I needed to come back and add a little fresher look at my response. So I stand by my statement that I have not had a compulsion to drink, in 18 years, but here is the add on, that does not mean that if I dont work this Program, one day at a time, to the best of my ability, then there is always a Yet to that answer, exactly the way that Tom I put it, on the airplane ride, (that was the speaker Post.)  Never feel like I am safe for the rest of my days, without working the AA Program to the best of my ability,  but with God's Grace, and my consciense decision to feel that Grace everyday always, with a Grateful heart always, well, long version of theVigilance we need to stay sober.....I am one of us that will never be RECOVERED, always still recoverying, still have the Disease, always will, I just dont drink, one day at a time. And Love God with my whole heart everyday. 

Hope you are having some good meetings, and have that Sponsor now, (J.D) and also having some time to hang out with these two guys you were speaking of, after the Meetings.
All good Stuff going on in your Life.....Thank you for your Post.

Toni 



-- Edited by Just Toni on Thursday 8th of April 2010 05:34:00 PM

As I shared with a returning member and a sponsee (prior relapse), "There is
one one thing I really fear and have said "uncle" to and that is alcohol."  I know
and work at never forgetting it is "cunning, powerful and baffling."  I keep in
mind what Dr. Harry Tiebout, a huge friend of AA taught about the difference
between consciousness and subconsciousness both of which exist withing the
same alcoholic person I am.  I am profoundly humble at the times I relapsed
on smoking and at the times, unprovoked, my subconscious mind has suggested
I attend to small events in my life (like a piece of pumpkin pie) with a beer.
LOL...Cunning, Powerful and Baffling.  I don't even like pumpkin pie!!  So for
me I feel grateful that my Higher Power wants me in a state of tension (aware-
ness) that I might not be overcome to the only thing I've ever said uncle to.
I listen to those who have the blessing that it has been removed forever and
I nod my head to the rememberances of alcoholics past who with long term
sobriety were rekidnapped and hostaged until death.   Like Paul, one of my
recovering "twin" brothers remarks after the reading of the promises and the
question that they be extravagant, "Hell yeah they are." 
Charlie S a past sponsor desired most to have "He died sober" put on his
head stone.  He still sponsors me regarding that thought and wish.  I stay
with a day to day reprieve and no guarantee.  Just an old members decision
and choice.   Too...recovery from alcoholism isn't solely abstinence from booze.
In support

-- Edited by Jerry F on Thursday 8th of April 2010 05:15:00 PM

AGO wrote:

---

it makes total sense

the short answer is gradually

and then suddenly (we notice it)

Yes.  For me, between around three months to maybe six by following the program whole-heartedly: meetings, sponsorship and most important by working the steps.

 

---

 

I really appreciate all the great responses to this post. I've read over them several times. It interesting that right after I made this post I went to a meeting were the topic of discussion was the 5th Step.

As I listened to people tell their experiences with completing the 5th step (and 4th step as well) I noticed some real similarities with some of the responses I received here. I know from my own experience that working the first 3 steps and attending meetings has already produced positive changes. But look forward to working with my sponser on the 4th and 5th steps and beyond. Embraceing the program and working the 4th and 5th steps seems, from the impression I've gotten, to be a point when many people started having an awareness of a "miracle" happening.

I'm not under any allusion that going through the motions of working the steps is going to provide me a "cure". But I have faith that if I follow the examples of others before me and work the steps with the guidance of my sponser that I will have the change in mind, body and spirit that many of you have mentioned.

leeu, I do see the point you are making. Another fairly common theme I hear in peoples stories is just the type of scenario you described. Someone gets an extended period of sober time, forgets it is not normal for them to not want to drink and picks up that first drink thinking they can drink normally.

Actually a couple of people have just started coming back to the AA meetings I attend. One had 12 years and another 5 years of sobriety, before they started drinking again. I can also think of several others outside of AA who I know hadn't drank for very long times, but started up and suffered negative consequences as a result.

I hope never to fall for the dangerous illusion you mentioned. Hopefully I will have learned my lesson from the experience of others and now that I am in recovery not have to experience a relapse myself.