I am addicted to alcohol, I drink every day, am I an alcoholic?

AGO · MIP Old Timer

I am addicted to alcohol, I drink every day, am I an alcoholic?

soberdrunk · MIP Old Timer

I definitely have struggled with this question in the past. I knew I was a drug addict. But alcoholic? It's kind of funny how this disease works. It will push away the bad memories to a place where they are beyond recall. Yeah, I only had 3 D.U.I.'s. That doesn't make me alcoholic. Just shows poor judgement, right? Most people drink as much as they can until they wake up not knowing what happened the night before. Thats normal! I remember thinking it was cool hearing the stories of what I had done the night before, for which I had no memory. But I was only hurting myself, right? All these lies I told myself to use to justify my thoughts and actions.
Today I am grateful that I never killed anyone driving drunk. The party on wheels is over. What a sick person I was. I'm glad their is a way out of this alcoholic disaster I call my life!

Larry_H · MIP Old Timer

Once I start I cannot predict the outcome, the consequences or when I will stop.

I was in the Navy during my active alcoholic drinking. When my ship went to sea I stopped drinking when it pulled into port I always began again. In my sick mind I was convinced that I was not an Alcoholic because I did not drink every day. I overlooked the problems alcohol caused for me almost every time I did drink.

Another sure sign for me was the numerous failed attempts at trying to control my drinking.

Larry,
-------------------------
If the cure works, chances are you have the disease.

AGO · MIP Old Timer

soberdrunk wrote:

I definitely have struggled with this question in the past. I knew I was a drug addict. But alcoholic? It's kind of funny how this disease works. It will push away the bad memories to a place where they are beyond recall. Yeah, I only had 3 D.U.I.'s. That doesn't make me alcoholic. Just shows poor judgement, right? Most people drink as much as they can until they wake up not knowing what happened the night before. Thats normal! I remember thinking it was cool hearing the stories of what I had done the night before, for which I had no memory. But I was only hurting myself, right? All these lies I told myself to use to justify my thoughts and actions.
Today I am grateful that I never killed anyone driving drunk. The party on wheels is over. What a sick person I was. I'm glad their is a way out of this alcoholic disaster I call my life!

OK, so you are working with a sponsee, he asks, am I am alcoholic? what do you tell him? what if he never got a dui?

so I'll ask again

Are you an alcoholic?

why?

What sets you apart from just a heavy drinker, a party animal?

I'm thinking you got your year, time to start practicing for sponsees

What is an alcoholic and how do you diagnose someone as such? You are working with a new guy, he's partied every day for five years and had to go to detox, he's convinced he's an alcoholic, are you? How can you find out?

You have someone who doesn't drink that often, but he woke up after a blackout and he slept with his best friends fiance, so he wants to quit drinking, is he an alcoholic? How do get him to find out?

(I figger I'd give you some homework to get you out of your funk)

Larry covered all the answers, he crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's and he identified as an alcoholic, yet you only described some heavy drinking stories, what's the difference?

How do you get someone to "identify" as an alcoholic? What does that mean to be an alcoholic?

-- Edited by AGO on Monday 22nd of March 2010 11:02:05 PM

Sid · Senior Member

Very interesting points and debate you bring up. I never considered myself one in the past because I drink infrequently and do not generally crave or seek out to drink. I considered myself a social drinker. However, lookiing back I realize I too often drank more than I intended with negative consequences. From what I have learned from this site and elsewhere I came to a realizatioo that I was an alcoholic.

Regardless of whether I am classified as alcoholic or not, I do know one think for certain. I am much better off not drinking. I will continue to introduce myself as an alcoholic at AA meetings and try not to drink one day at a time.

Sid · Senior Member

Edit to my above post. "..try not to drink one day at a time." should be .."will not drink one day at a time."

AGO · MIP Old Timer

Sid wrote:

Very interesting points and debate you bring up. I never considered myself one in the past because I drink infrequently and do not generally crave or seek out to drink. I considered myself a social drinker. However, lookiing back I realize I too often drank more than I intended with negative consequences. From what I have learned from this site and elsewhere I came to a realizatioo that I was an alcoholic.

Regardless of whether I am classified as alcoholic or not, I do know one think for certain. I am much better off not drinking. I will continue to introduce myself as an alcoholic at AA meetings and try not to drink one day at a time.

Bingo on the bolded

Great Job Sid, glad to see you participating

soberdrunk · MIP Old Timer

I get the point. Really I do. It has nothing to do with what I drink or how often I drink as to the effect that alcohol has on me once I've consumed it. I know the big book talks about "controlled drinking" as a test to see if you are alcoholic. This disease has nearly killed me and I know how powerful it is. I've tried to manage and control and it just doesn't work! I used alcohol as a treatment for a long time and I prefer abstinence with the help of the program and everything that goes with it (sponsor,HP,fellowship,family) The second I think I am only 99% powerless I'm in for a rude awakening. That 1% can and will try to destroy me.

soberdrunk · MIP Old Timer

Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!

Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums-we could increase the list ad infinitum.

We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself, Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.

soberdrunk · MIP Old Timer

What kind of grade do I get? LOL.
You know it's kind of funny that you brought up the potential sponsee. There was this young kid at a meeting Saturday. He was on a weekend pass from in-patient treatment. He asked for a sponsor at the meeting. At the end of the meeting everyone left. I got to talking with him and come to find he's been in treatment for a month and hasn't even opened our basic text. I hope to see him this coming weekend, he said he would call. I asked him to read the doctor's opinion. I figured I'm not going to worry about qualifying him as an alcoholic right at that time. I hope to get a chance to spend some time with him this coming Saturday though.
I think people make too big of a deal out of being sponsors. I don't have enough time. I've got 5 years sober and haven't finished my 4th step. I've heard stuff like this before. One thing I do know is that I can help the still suffering alcoholic with my experience, strength, and hope. That, I feel, I owe for all the help I have received through this wonderful fellowship. That is how we stay sober, together.

-- Edited by soberdrunk on Monday 22nd of March 2010 11:19:29 PM

AGO · MIP Old Timer

Nice

You get an A+ kid smile

I use the Doctors Opinion extensively too, does your sponsee "identify" with everything described in the Dr's Opinion, the obsession of the mind coupled with the allergy of the Body

I have heard alcoholics also describe painfully going through periods of "controlled" drinking but they would obsess all the time, obsessing all day waiting for five O'clock, then obsessing about how much they could drink etc.

"Powerless" also describes non drinking times too if all we are doing is obsessing all the time.

That is why I am so "down" on the "tips and tricks" method seen in AA, it's not recovery, it's not Sobriety, it's just "more of the same", spending time and going to meetings in order not to drink is still powerless over alcohol, it's not "recovered" it's "white knuckling" and "being on the wagon" and still being controlled by your drinking.

"Recovered" is freedom from bondage

-- Edited by AGO on Monday 22nd of March 2010 11:25:36 PM

AGO · MIP Old Timer

soberdrunk wrote:

What kind of grade do I get? LOL.
You know it's kind of funny that you brought up the potential sponsee. There was this young kid at a meeting Saturday. He was on a weekend pass from in-patient treatment. He asked for a sponsor at the meeting. At the end of the meeting everyone left. I got to talking with him and come to find he's been in treatment for a month and hasn't even opened our basic text. I hope to see him this coming weekend, he said he would call. I asked him to read the doctor's opinion. I figured I'm not going to worry about qualifying him as an alcoholic right at that time. I hope to get a chance to spend some time with him this coming Saturday though.
I think people make too big of a deal out of being sponsors. I don't have enough time. I've got 5 years sober and haven't finished my 4th step. I've heard stuff like this before. One thing I do know is that I can help the still suffering alcoholic with my experience, strength, and hope. That, I feel, I owe for all the help I have received through this wonderful fellowship. That is how we stay sober, together.

-- Edited by soberdrunk on Monday 22nd of March 2010 11:19:29 PM

WOOP WOOP getoffyerass alert woop woop

All you have to do is stay one step ahead of your sponsee, I got my first sponsee at 30 days, he wouldn't take no for an answer, he made it six years and we got through the steps

step 4 can be finished in one all nighter, step 5 in one or 2 meetings, 6-7 take an hour, you have your list from step 4, that's step 8, get half way through step 9 and start on 10-11 and 12, they are steps u do every day

YOU CAN DO ITTTTTT !!!!

seriously, it don't even get good until you get sponsees, that's what brings it all full circle and makes the program come together, working the steps with a sponsor is OK, working the steps with sponsees is where the rewards come.

Sid · Senior Member

AGO wrote:

Nice

You get an A+ kid

I use the Doctors Opinion extensively too, does your sponsee "identify" with everything described in the Dr's Opinion, the obsession of the mind coupled with the allergy of the Body

I have heard alcoholics also describe painfully going through periods of "controlled" drinking but they would obsess all the time, obsessing all day waiting for five O'clock, then obsessing about how much they could drink etc.

"Powerless" also describes non drinking times too if all we are doing is obsessing all the time.

That is why I am so "down" on the "tips and tricks" method seen in AA, it's not recovery, it's not Sobriety, it's just "more of the same", spending time and going to meetings in order not to drink is still powerless over alcohol, it's not "recovered" it's "white knuckling" and "being on the wagon" and still being controlled by your drinking.

"Recovered" is freedom from bondage

-- Edited by AGO on Monday 22nd of March 2010 11:25:36 PM

The bolded quote caught my attention. I was just thinking this same point. I was realizing that obsessing over not drinking wasn't being productive. I have made my choice not to drink and now need to focus more on developing and enjoying other activities I enjoy. Not that it is as simple as that, but I appreciate your "Powerless" and "Recovered" descriptions. I know I'm off topic, but liked that post and wanted to comment.

AGO · MIP Old Timer

It's not off topic at all Sid, it's on topic and very important, thanks for sharing that with me

Sid · Senior Member

I really enjoy your posts AGO. You are very knowledgeable. The more I think about it the more I realize I am most definitely an Alcoholic. One of my problems is that I know many others who have had bigger problems with Alcohol that I did, so I believe I compared myself to them at times and failed to analyze my own problems.

Coming to the realization I am an Alcoholic is a good thing in that I can make positive choices in the future. It is however difficult at times not obsessing about not recognizing my problem sooner, so that I wouldn't have made some of the bad choices I did in the past.

Anyway, I look forward to you sharing more of your knowledge. I realize I have to stay ever vigilant against denial working its way back into my head.

runnergirl · Senior Member

AGO-
Funny you'd post about this. I've been struggling with this so much over the past week. This Friday will be four weeks sober for me. In some ways, I think the daily obsessing over drinking should make me feel secure in a "diagnosis" of alcoholism. On the other hand, it doesn't feel like a "shot in the goal." Is there always some doubt? Is that the illness, or is it real doubt? At this point, I'm pretty confident I will make it to a month and I haven't been able to that ever. In the past, I've got to 2 or 3 weeks and decided I was convinced I was in control. So... now I get to a month and then what??? Do I try again (another experiment so to speak?). I'm scared to do that and be wrong. If I am, I'd rather just not do it at all. Part of me wants to stop struggling with the question, wants to DO something, to KNOW something. I could drink. I could do outpatient treatment to get educated. I don't know. I feel lost in this. Like I've enlisted in something I'm not sure I want anymore-- but can't shake. There is a song that starts like this:

"Where I Stood"

I don't know what I've done
Or if I like what I've begun
But something told me to run
And honey you know me it's all or none

There were sounds in my head
Little voices whispering
That I should go and this should end
Oh and I found myself listening

'Cos I dont know who I am, who I am without you
All I know is that I should

------

It goes on into a bunch of relational stuff, but the beginning makes me think about alcohol and AA...

Anyway, that's what I got. I'm reading the beginning of the big book as you suggested, but I still am filled with questions.

Thanks for the insight.

-- Edited by runnergirl on Tuesday 23rd of March 2010 09:09:04 AM

Sugah · Member

For a very long time, alcohol wasn't my problem; it was my solution. It was sobriety, not drinking, that I couldn't handle. Eventually, though, and like most of us, the solution itself became problematic. I needed a new solution.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

To me I am and at that I am convinced. When I become unconvinced I might
complete the journey and go that one ounce more the one that takes me beyond
a toxic shock. I am an alcoholic and qualified for the rooms and program of AA.
Because of this I am still alive and of use to others who come in questioning and
looking for what I've been given. Beyond that I no longer spend time thinking.
Mostly what I do is walk it or as others have mentioned...trudging. I was told
when I first got here...don't drink and don't think. Neither luxury has been very
valuable for me especially when I use to do most of both together. I'm
convinced and no longer take the test. HP likes it that way. In support smile

Sid · Senior Member

Jerry F wrote:

...don't drink and don't think.

I'm convinced and no longer take the test. HP likes it that way. In support

I take great advice away from this board everyday. Great thoughts Jerry. I believe for me the best policy is to simply conclude not to drink and to adhere to that goal everyday.

AGO · MIP Old Timer

Sid wrote:

Jerry F wrote:

...don't drink and don't think.

I'm convinced and no longer take the test. HP likes it that way. In support

I take great advice away from this board everyday. Great thoughts Jerry. I believe for me the best policy is to simply conclude not to drink and to adhere to that goal everyday.

Hey Sid, here are a few step one stories

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=42763&p=3&topicID=34341854

-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 24th of March 2010 10:37:03 AM

Sid · Senior Member

Hey Sid, here are a few step one stories
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=42763&p=3&topicID=34341854

-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 24th of March 2010 10:37:03 AM

Thanks for the link AGO. I have admitted I have a problem and vowed not to drink again, but think I am just now realizing that adhering to that vow is a lifelong commitment to doing whatever it takes. I have no doubt a time will come when the thought will come to my head that I would be okay just having one.

Hopefully some of these stories from folks who have tried that with negative results will pop into my head and make me reconsider. I can also think of people I know personally who had stopped drinking and then sometime later had that "one" drink. It didn't turn out well. Actually, when I think about it I am more or less one of those people.

AGO, I think I will keep reading your posts as well as "keep coming back" to AA and learning from those who have achieved a lasting sobriety. My goal is to paddle lock all the doors and windows so there is no way to exit.

AGO · MIP Old Timer

Sid wrote:

Hey Sid, here are a few step one stories
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=42763&p=3&topicID=34341854

-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 24th of March 2010 10:37:03 AM

Thanks for the link AGO. I have admitted I have a problem and vowed not to drink again, but think I am just now realizing that adhering to that vow is a lifelong commitment to doing whatever it takes. I have no doubt a time will come when the thought will come to my head that I would be okay just having one.

Hopefully some of these stories from folks who have tried that with negative results will pop into my head and make me reconsider. I can also think of people I know personally who had stopped drinking and then sometime later had that "one" drink. It didn't turn out well. Actually, when I think about it I am more or less one of those people.

AGO, I think I will keep reading your posts as well as "keep coming back" to AA and learning from those who have achieved a lasting sobriety. My goal is to paddle lock all the doors and windows so there is no way to exit.

just don't drink today Sid, don't worry about that lifetime commitment crap, just don't. drink. today.

and keep coming back, get a sponsor blah blah but keep educating yourself about the disease of alcoholism, and one day you will be at a meeting and the speaker will tell your story, I always heard about it, but when it happened to me I was ASTOUNDED, because I expected Brad Pitt or George Cloony to tell my story, but instead it was toofless Shane the bottom dweller, his interior life was identical to mine.

Talk about a humbling experience.

Sid · Senior Member

I will not drink today AGO. That sounds a lot more achievable and is again great advice. I have even started a notebook, first thing I do every morning is write the date and put that saying next to it. I plan on drilling that concept into the remaining brain cells I have left.

Maybe someday Brad Pitt or George Clooney will play the role of toothless Shane telling your story. Don't give up yet.

AGO · MIP Old Timer

Sid wrote:
Maybe someday Brad Pitt or George Clooney will play the role of toothless Shane telling your story. Don't give up yet.

OMFG I just sprayed coffee EVERYWHERE, that was FUNNY haha

Ellen E · Senior Member

It's not up to me to get someone else to "identify as an alcoholic". There are two things that are up to me. One is to identify MYSELF as an alcoholic and two is to share it with others so that they might identify common things about my story that help them to identify THEMSELVES one or not. Why? Because I'm not anyone's Higher Power. Me getting him to identify himself as an alcoholic isn't going to make the miracle happen. Him owning his disease himself requires the light bulb going on for him---the miracle happening----and the miracle happens by me sharing my own story and his realization that he's just like me in key ways and if he's like me, then he might be alcoholic, too.

See, I'm powerless over his disease as much as I am over my own. If I kid myself into thinking I can get him to admit it, then I'm thinking I'm powerful over alcoholism for someone else. And if I'm powerful over someone else's disease, then my own disease is there to maybe start whispering in my ear "hey, you had some power over his disease, why not over your own now?"

Speaking of getting someone to "identify as an alcoholic" reminds me of what I call "treatment lingo". I never went to treatment or even to detox. I didn't have any money and there weren't treatment centers much back then, so I just had DT's in a nasty old basement by myself. I've come to recognize that kind of term, though, as being from treatment centers. Maybe it's just caught on among a lot of people these days, though.

Sid · Senior Member

AGO wrote:

Sid wrote:
Maybe someday Brad Pitt or George Clooney will play the role of toothless Shane telling your story. Don't give up yet.

OMFG I just sprayed coffee EVERYWHERE, that was FUNNY haha

Happy I was able to give you a laugh AGO. :)

AGO · MIP Old Timer

Ellen E wrote:

It's not up to me to get someone else to "identify as an alcoholic". There are two things that are up to me. One is to identify MYSELF as an alcoholic and two is to share it with others so that they might identify common things about my story that help them to identify THEMSELVES one or not. Why? Because I'm not anyone's Higher Power. Me getting him to identify himself as an alcoholic isn't going to make the miracle happen. Him owning his disease himself requires the light bulb going on for him---the miracle happening----and the miracle happens by me sharing my own story and his realization that he's just like me in key ways and if he's like me, then he might be alcoholic, too.

See, I'm powerless over his disease as much as I am over my own. If I kid myself into thinking I can get him to admit it, then I'm thinking I'm powerful over alcoholism for someone else. And if I'm powerful over someone else's disease, then my own disease is there to maybe start whispering in my ear "hey, you had some power over his disease, why not over your own now?"

Speaking of getting someone to "identify as an alcoholic" reminds me of what I call "treatment lingo". I never went to treatment or even to detox. I didn't have any money and there weren't treatment centers much back then, so I just had DT's in a nasty old basement by myself. I've come to recognize that kind of term, though, as being from treatment centers. Maybe it's just caught on among a lot of people these days, though.

Hello, welcome to MIP, and sober since 1985 wow, congratulations that's awesome.

Yeah that pesky treatment center lingo, I agree it's a terrible thing, the treatment industry makes billions of dollars a year from alcoholics, and truthfully really only addresses a 30-60-90 day coping strategy and then sends alkies to AA, we always called it a 10,000 dollar Big Book.

I too never went to a treatment center, just good old fashioned AA, and I agree with you, but as a good sponsor I needed to be educated enough about my own condition and alcoholism and actually what is and isn't treatment center "lingo" in order to pass this thing on to others. I agree with you that the light needs to come on for each person, that alcoholism is a self diagnosed illness but the entire Big Book is a manual for how to do that for me. the identification of and answer to alcoholism. The book tells me I must learn how to increase my effectiveness in carrying this message to others.

Getting someone to "Identify as an alcoholic" means just that, laying out our history and seeing if they "identify" with what we say, it actually predates that whole "treatment center lingo" by a fair bit, it comes down to us from a guy you may have heard of, being in AA, a proctologist no less, by the name of Dr Bob.

[See DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers (New York, N.Y.: Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., 1980), 128-36especially 131.]

How It Worked

Abstinence was Number One. Usually there was hospitalization or at least medical help to save the newcomer's life. At the hospital, the only reading material allowed in the room was the Bible. Recovered Alcoholics Anonymous drunks visited the patient and told their success stories. Dr. Bob visited daily. And he would explain the disease or illness, as it was then understood. The newcomer had to identify as an alcoholic, admit that he too was licked, and declare that he would do whatever it took to recover.

So Dr Bob was actually the one who coined that phrase initially, and he said the newcomer had to identify as an alcoholic and declare he would would do whatever it took to recover.

Chapter 7 Working with Others

See your man alone, if possible. At first engage in general conversation. After a while, turn the talk to some phase of drinking. Tell him enough about your drinking habits, symptoms, and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself. If he wishes to talk, let him do so. You will thus get a better idea of how you ought to proceed. If he is not communicative, give him a sketch or your drinking career up to the time you quit. But say nothing, for the moment, of how that was accomplished. If he is in a serious mood dwell on the troubles liquor has caused you, being careful not to moralize or lecture. If his mood is light, tell him humorous stories of your escapades. Get him to tell some of his.

When he sees you know all about the drinking game, commence to describe yourself as an alcoholic. Tell him how baffled you were, how you finally learned that you were sick. Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism. If he is alcoholic, he will understand you at once. He will match you mental inconsistencies with some of his own.

If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopeless feature of the malady. Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power. Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it. And be careful not to brand him as an alcoholic. Let him draw his own conclusion. If he sticks to the idea that he can still control his drinking, tell him that possibly he can if he is not too alcoholic. But insist that if he is severely afflicted, there may be little chance he can recover by himself.

Continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness, a fatal malady. Talk about the conditions of body and mind which accompany it. Keep his attention focused mainly on your personal experience. Explain that many are doomed who never realize their predicament. Doctors are rightly loath to tell alcoholic patients the whole story unless it will serve some good purpose. But you may talk to him about the hopelessness of alcoholism because you offer a solution. You will soon have you friend admitting he has many, if not all, of the traits of the alcoholic. If his own doctor is willing to tell him that he is alcoholic, so much the better. Even though your protege may not have entirely admitted his condition, he has become very curious to know how you got well.

So I may in fact be wrong, but I was taught in order to sponsor someone, I had to make sure he was a real alcoholic for my OWN reasons in order to continue working with him, I had to make sure they get through step one, and in order to get through step one, we had to make sure they could "Identify" as an alcoholic, that they do this step 100%, and if it was good enough for Bill and Dr Bob, it's good enough for me.

Chapter 7 and pages 58- 103 have very clear cut instructions I try to follow as I have found the program of AA is a very effective tool in combating alcoholism, and it's always good to return to, and as in the game of "telephone" where you sit in a circle and whisper something, by the time it has traveled the full circle it has become distorted, the message of AA is like that in meetings, and I am as guilty of it as anyone, I paraphrase something, someone hears it differently, they paraphrase it differently, and the next thing you know your grandsponsees are taking ducks for walks in the rain to see water run off their backs and calling it AA.

truthfully I agree with you but thought I'd point out that "Identifying as an alcoholic" isn't some treatment center BS, but VERY BASIC OLD SCHOOL AA started by Bill and Dr Bob

Our hope is that many alcoholic men and women, desperately in need, will see these pages, and we believe that it is only by fully disclosing ourselves and our problems that they will be persuaded to say, "Yes, I am one of them too; I must have this thing."

or in other words, identify as an alcoholic, and thus accept help

-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 24th of March 2010 11:40:07 PM

Ellen E · Senior Member

The beauty of the AA program is that it takes every one of us to reach people. Your way obviously will reach some and mine will reach some and the next person's will reach others. That's how it works that has made this program as successful as it is in helping alcoholics find and maintain sobriety.

You know what the most basic old-school AA really is? It's when that proctologist found another alcoholic to talk to. Not only did he not speak treatment lingo, he also didn't have a Big Book to thump. Don't mistake what I'm saying---I love that book. I've read it every day of my sobriety and use that and the 12X12 as my roadmap for life. But it's my sharing my story that's key, not evangelizing from a book that the newcomer not only may not have any interest in reading but wouldn't understand at first anyway. If I shove the Big Book at him or her constantly or share something other than my own story, he/she may lose his/her life because they didn't hear anything out of me that they could identify with. If it were that way, we could leave Big Books in every bar in town and usher in the crowds at meetings.

If I, for some reason, couldn't have any book at all, if I reach for my Higher Power with one hand and another alcoholic with the other hand, then I'm going to stay sober. I don't have another hand to pick up a drink with.

Getting someone to "Identify as an alcoholic" means just that, laying out our history and seeing if they "identify" with what we say, it actually predates that whole "treatment center lingo" by a fair bit, it comes down to us from a guy you may have heard of, being in AA, a proctologist no less, by the name of Dr Bob.

We're on the same page here, then, aren't we? biggrin

You sound a little sarcastic when you say "a guy you may have heard of." You know I've heard of him as well as you know you have. LOL I've bought and given away and taken many people through the Big Book. It's our guidebook, but rather than take a defensive stance with each other, let's just each concentrate on helping the suffering alcoholic doing whatever it is that works for us in the best way we know how. I think I did make you a little defensive but that wasn't my intention.

When I make my posts, I'm telling how it is for me and what works for me. I know there are people who need to hear it. I also know that your way is going to help people as well. There's room for us all. Your way may not work for everyone, nor will my experience help everyone, but thank God we're both here because together we can touch twice the suffering alcoholics. And once we've reached out our hand---the hand of AA---we can stay sober ourselves. That's the bottom line.

-- Edited by Ellen E on Thursday 25th of March 2010 01:01:33 PM

AGO · MIP Old Timer

agreed

Simple · Senior Member

Wow, what a long forum topic. I have to say that I agree that we can only "diagnose" ourselves and then share that with others. I have been told by others that I am not an alcoholic, because I got sober so young, drank for such a short time, or whatever. Most people who have told me that are drunk.

But a few things struck me that I have to comment on. First, Runnergirl, I soooooo get your comment:
"Part of me wants to stop struggling with the question, wants to DO something, to KNOW something. I could drink. I could do outpatient treatment to get educated. I don't know. I feel lost in this. Like I've enlisted in something I'm not sure I want anymore-- but can't shake. "

I had forgotten that feeling, those thoughts, until I read them. There is a certain impatience in the uncertainty of the "self-diagnosis" early on. Personally I think some of that is the trickery of alcoholism. The only response I have is to actively pursue the steps and you will have clarity.

Personally I know I am an alcoholic because I drank at times that I didn't want to drink, and I couldn't always control the amount once I started. BUT my understanding of my own alcoholism is much deeper than a few stories, a cerebral knowledge of what alcoholism is, or even if I "relate" to others in meetings. It is a very very long process I think could go on for the rest of my life. I remember driving when I was about a year sober, and having to pull over on the expressway because I was crying so hard. It simply struck me that I was an alcoholic, deeply. It wasn't a sad or a happy cry, I wish I could describe that moment.

I also have friends who were in AA who drank and seem to be okay. I think some of them at least are not alcoholics. I divorced my first husband in large part because he used. He had told me he didn't related to the talk of cravings or mental obsessions. He said his problem was drugs and he thought he could drink and just not use drugs - they were separate in his mind. He had back surgery and was on painkillers, and drank not long afterward. I was completely freaked because I NEVER saw him drunk. He could have a beer and stop. He never came home late or smelled of alcohol. I didn't know what to do, it baffled me, scared me, angered me. Then he started smoking weed daily - lying about it and being irrational and he changed. I asked him to stop for me and he would/could not. I divorced him, and to this day I cannot say if he is an alcoholic. It doesn't matter. I am.

Sid · Senior Member

I've become addicted to this site. If it keeps me from drinking, I guess it is one addiction I am happy to have.