I do my best to avoid members of the opposite sex in A.A. that I am attracted to, because I am trying to follow suggestions and don't trust myself to do the right thing. But something that happened yesterday made me question myself.
Someone who came into the program around the same time as me (last April), who I've done my best to avoid but have occasionally talked to after meetings, has been having a hard time staying sober. She went out last month, came back right away, and then just went out again on Feb 10th. When she announced that she was once again in her first 30 days of sobriety, and had that horrible look that people usually get, I was just overcome with compassion for her. At the break, I came up to her while she was still sitting down at a table, gave her a hug from behind and said quietly, "keep coming back, 'cause I'll miss you if you don't!"
Then I immediately left, but she looked back at me and smiled in a way that just made me very happy I had said something. I could tell that it had improved her mood and maybe it helped her outlook. I hope it had more than a temporary effect on her and encourages her to not give up, but I've noticed lately that many actions I do with regard to the opposite sex, no matter how I try to ensure that my motives are good, tend to set in motion things that happen later and just lead to even more temptation for me. This is not a problem I've really had much in the past, it's kind of a recent development.
I probably shouldn't have said anything. I don't know. Opinions, anyone?
Womanizing rears it's ugly head. Secret Squirrel don't expect to be perfect in your first year of sobriety. Just imagine love for the opposite sex that doesn't involve sex. I think that what you did was awesome as long as you allow her to find herself by staying out of her bedroom for a year of two. Chances are that, because you all are attracted to each other now, you'll be incompatible later. It's just the way it usually is.
I was severely handicapped in that endeavor, to share my love unselfishly, as I never had a sister, nor close girls as friends in my teens or twenties. Not saying this is the case for you. It was awesome when I started having this brother/sister relationships in the program. They taught me so much and many of my myths about women were busted by them. I owe them big time.
Well so far I have managed to avoid getting into any tangles within A.A., but unfortunately I did get involved with someone else (I considered myself justified since my wife and I have been separated 18 months and she admitted having an affair) but this has just complicated my life. I just try to be nice and helpful, and next thing I know there's another person with a crush on me that I didn't intend to happen. Sigh
Dear FS, have you been sober more than a year yet? That's what I've heard said about sex and AA. I guess you can have sex but don't mix it with AA. No, no (new) relationships for a year. I'm married, so I have no choice. Suppose that could be interpreted a few ways? Sorry, just trying to be funny, but not able.
I'm in a relationship, can't avoid it altogether, but for now, after qualifying that it's not physically or mentally abusive and doesn't threaten my sobriety, I've decided to ignore and not create any new relationship issues with my guy.
I will share in case it helps-in the first glow of sobriety, just when things started clearing a little for me and I felt saved, I held the hand of a guy in a meeting at the prayer. I felt a little something, hard to tell if it was the energy of the fellowship or what. It scared me a little, because at home I face a relationship still clouded with daily alcohol. I decided to take it as the natural reaction to a sober, healthy and attractive man. And for me, leave it at that. I still think I won't sully my thoughts by making it ugly, so I choose to believe that it must have been the wonderful,loving energy I receive from the fellowship at meetings.
I will say that in my experience, there is a tendency of some women to validate experiences through connection to men. This is why women-only, men-only, and same sex sponsorship is recommended.
Love and attraction between humans is natural and good, but also has inherent dangers. Just be careful. Might help to keep in mind that we're a sick bunch, and not to use that as any kind of excuse. That's what I think. HP knows best.
You should just go to Gay AA meetings FS. That will solve the problem. JK...or not...some people do come to the clubhouse I go to for that reason (mostly women). They don't recommend opposite sex sponsors for me...so all that is hooplah... Be grateful people get crushes on you. When you get old or if you were disfigured or disabled, it wouldn't be that way. You don't have to indulge all of crushes you have on others or others have on you, but it's human to have them.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I just try to be nice and helpful, and next thing I know there's another person with a crush on me that I didn't intend to happen. Sigh
What we learn eventually is that we send off messages automatically (body language. tone of voice, choice of words) telling others that we're available. We learn to turn this off over time. This helps us to be able to chose rather than to be chosen, as until we turn those messages off others will respond to them. Then a part of us says "hey they like me, so they're qualified to be in a relationship with us", which is not true. At some point we need to do some writing about who is and who is not qualified by listing requirements for entrance into the exclusive club that is a relationship with Me. We also determine when (and where), and when we Are not available, and we set boundaries with ourselves (and others) accordingly. I got a tremendous amount of help with the above from attending Coda meetings and reading (listening to) John Bradshaw books.
This is exactly why there is an 'unwritten rule' in AA - MEN FOR MEN - WOMEN FOR WOMEN - end of. YOUR intentions, I'm sure were just one human bean extending the hand of AA out to another sufferer. Unfortunately, theres this phenomenon in AA rooms, which is 'boy meets girl on AA campus' and it happens everywhere, every town, every city, every convention, every meeting, newcomers and relapsers have one major trait, which is why it is a good idea for same-sex suport.
NEEDINESS - VULNERABILITY - many of us feel this way in early days, and all it takes is for ONE person of the opposite sex to give us a hug, a peck on the cheek, a pat on the back, a touch on the arm and BINGO!!! I AM SAVED!!! This guy LOVES me, I wanna have his babies.
No matter what YOUR intentions were, I'm sure this girls are very different, and once you're in there, it's the hardest place to get out of. Give all new females a very wide berth, introduce them to the ladies, especially the long-time sober ladies, they're what she needs to get sober.
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Serenity is Wanting what you have, not having what you want
Always remember non-alcoholic beers are for NON-ALCOHOLICS
I just try to be nice and helpful, and next thing I know there's another person with a crush on me that I didn't intend to happen. Sigh
So there I was, getting sober, minding my own business....and this guy let me know he "wanted" me.....and I fell hook, line, and sinker. I felt awful--reminded me too much of the drinking days--and I talked with a sponsor, worked through it, and learned from it. He wasn't all that committed to sobriety anyway, and he soon drank. Among the wreckage of my past was loss of relationships---or relationships that failed to launch because I was a falling-down blackout drunk. And of course, that is one of the things I intended to mend once I got sober. What I didn't realize at the time was that all I had to offer was what was damaged about me; although sober I was still seeking something external to myself to fill the emptiness. And then there were those who didn't try to get me into bed: Must be love, I thought! In fact, they were simply being kind, reaching out to another alcoholic. It is easy to misinterpret the signals, especially in early sobriety. My radar was still skewed, and frankly I found I was better off just putting the whole he & she thing on a back burner. That's why God gave us hands, they said. I think you are wise to bring this topic to the forefront. I would suggest that you see this woman only in group setting & that you set/observe good boundaries. There's been lots of good sharing here, and I hope it has helped.
Some people have the ability to be friends with the opposite sex without bringing horny into the mix and some don't. I try not to give advice that isn't steps or tradition related. So....If it was me I would ask myself "is this good for mine & her recovery? Is this an act of Unity or Service?" "Do my thoughts and/or actions enhance our sobriety or threaten it?"
Ah, a topic that I have a little experience with. And before I say anything further, I will point out that you may not agree with everything I say. I don't know what step any of you are on, it's none of my business, but I do know that there's a line in the 12 and 12 on page 53 (step 4) that talks about our twisted relations with people when we were practicing our disease. And even now that we are reasonably sober, if we have not done the inventory steps, we suffer from a total inability to form a true partnership with another human being. What that means in plain english is that we don't know how to have healthy relationships prior to doing the steps, so the best thing for us to do is to stay out of them. I concealed other motives within my gestures of fellowship. It was only my ego that prompted me to give support to women; there were lots of women already doing it and if there wasn't then I could introduce her to a few women. I, too, always thought I was the pursued and not the pursuer. My sponsor gave me some solid advice on this whole relationship thing. See, I had heard I was supposed to wait a year. No way was I going to wait that long. He made a suggestion. He said you can wait a year or you can work your steps, depending upon how lonely you are. He used another word, but I'm using lonely because we are in mixed company. Well, let me tell ya, I was pret-ty lonely so I worked my steps. It took me 4 months to get to step nine. And before you start thinking I rushed things, it took our co-founders 2 weeks to get to step 12 so I figure I took my time. Having worked my steps, well a funny thing happened. I got into a healthy relationship thats been going strong for over a dozen years. And when I see a female newcomer struggling along I do the things I already mentioned. I let the gals take care of her. There's lot of guys out there I can help. After all, the 13th step is just a combination of 1 and 12. Hi, my life is unmanageable. Here, let me help you.
So if you really want to do the 12th step, do the first 11 first.
"I just try to be nice and helpful, and next thing I know there's another person with a crush on me that I didn't intend to happen. Sigh" - I almost felt sorry for you there Glenn lol ;) Leave the girls alone if you possibly can dear brother even if not for your sake then maybe definately for theirs. I know I was so messy & codependent in earlier recovery that I couldn't help get attached to men like I had all my life. It was so much eaiser to make a friendship with them than with women partly because I felt like there was my added advantage of having something they might want! & a relationship with a female was more neutral than that. She didn't 'need' me & I have wanted to be needed. I always did get lust & sympathy mixed up too ;)
Hugging someone from behind & whispering in their ear would be an incredibly intimate & heart stopping gesture for me. In the context of boundaries, would I do this to someone's boyfriend? No, I wouldn't because it is up close & personal. It doesn't make it any less personal than if they are single. I had to learn all about my giving off unconscious signals of being available to men just because I wanted the feeling of being desirable. I have to examine my motives very carefully & if there is even any sniff of a margin for error tis best to do nowt. Step 10 helps me exercise restraint. Keep up on your program, Glenn & these things will lessen & lessen. Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
I just try to be nice and helpful, and next thing I know there's another person with a crush on me that I didn't intend to happen. Sigh
What we learn eventually is that we send off messages automatically (body language. tone of voice, choice of words) telling others that we're available. We learn to turn this off over time. This helps us to be able to chose rather than to be chosen, as until we turn those messages off others will respond to them. Then a part of us says "hey they like me, so they're qualified to be in a relationship with us", which is not true. At some point we need to do some writing about who is and who is not qualified by listing requirements for entrance into the exclusive club that is a relationship with Me. We also determine when (and where), and when we Are not available, and we set boundaries with ourselves (and others) accordingly. I got a tremendous amount of help with the above from attending Coda meetings and reading (listening to) John Bradshaw books.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Saturday 13th of February 2010 07:12:08 AM
I have too much to read. I'm not saying you're wrong but listening to Joe & Charlie BB study mp3s is about as much as I can do right now. (In between my regular meets and my home group.)
I'm finding it hard to even be honest with my home group. I need to get away from those guys for a while.
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The past is never over; it's not even past yet. William Faulkner, U.S. writer
Dreamnine, Even today I sometimes find that I can become overwhelmed with too much information. Not every topic that is discussed is for me...at least not at that moment. I have found that I have the ability to file away information in my mind so I can pull it out for future use. It doesn't have to register with me right that minute.
I often just have to step back and bring myself into now, into this moment, and attend to what is important. Sounds like a good topic for a meeting.
I'm still married and still in early recovery but an early middle-aged hetrosexual male and not yet dead. So, heck, I can understand where you're coming from Flying Squirrel. I'd never act on it (unlike when I was drunk), but for me the underlying motivation is still there sometimes, lol. But the steps have given me the ability to recognize that motivation and how to deal with it. What I find interesting, when I work the steps, is how I can try and camouflage in my own mind my motivations and yet at the same time indulge in all sorts of flights of fancy about starting a new life with a nice sober girl, etc. lol
As for early AA relationships, in my year or so in the Fellowship, I have seen one work, really well. But, I haven't heard of any others that have. So, I think that the stuff we are old to hold off for a bit seems wise.
I told my sponsor once about this girl I had become friends with. He said, Oh really? Is it the same kind of friendship you have with me, 'cause you won't be holding my hand or asking me to dance.
The area I'm in is pretty much a drug & rehab community. Most of the members are from the rehabs. I can't even begin to tell you the meetings I've been too & be the only woman there. I used to find it intimidating. But, I go to so many meetings that I get to know each one there if they continue to come to the meetings. Basically I'm in predator territory!! LOL I've made it known to other men that I'm there for recovery & not relationships/sex. Although I have been in a couple & somehow they end up drunk & the relationship ends while I've stayed sober. So, now I don't get involved with any of the men there & they don't bother me. Being a woman if a guy came upto me as you did I'd consider it an invite. Keep, your hands in your pockets, your eyes in your head, & keep your tongue in your mouth. You might learn something!!;)
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God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. Courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Rheinhold Niebuhr
Secret Squirrel don't expect to be perfect in your first year of sobriety. Just imagine love for the opposite sex that doesn't involve sex. I think that what you did was awesome as long as you allow her to find herself by staying out of her bedroom for a year of two. Chances are that, because you all are attracted to each other now, you'll be incompatible later. It's just the way it usually is.
