I have been sober many years - a day at a time thanks to AA, however even after all those years I still balk at p92 in the 12 &12 (Step 10) where it says.....
"It is a spiritual axiom that everytime we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us? "
I'm sorry but I just cannot see or accept that statement.......well not at the moment.....I know they say more will be revealed, but 7 years and I still am confused by that statement?
I have asked a few members about it and I still don't really 'get it'.
I do try and accept the statement.....but I have to be honest with myself and just don't see it.
Does anyone else have the same problem with that claim? I am open minded about it but just don't seem to be able to understand or accept it and it has cropped up again today in my daily reading....ARGH.......
I take it to mean that any block to our serenity is a disturbance and letting go and not having to be right allows us to get back to gratitude and serenity. Intense emotions of anger, jealousy...whatever resentment, no matter how much it is the other person's doing, have the power to derail us and lead us off the spiritual path....Hence, the message I get from the axiom is not to get caught up in it and try to stay centered. Most times, even if I have been wronged, my alcoholic thinking will wind up causing problems if I respond in anger or any intense emotion. Do I actually practice this well yet? Not really..but I try.
Mark
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
"and letting go and not having to be right allows us to get back to gratitude and serenity."
My God! "letting go - not having to be right" - and maybe even that the person who has 'harmed' me is sick and we do not react & all that stuff? (and we be considerate?)
Now THAT I can definitely start to buy! Yes - that I do understand and can begin to see .....I really can! Yes....I can see that quite clearly and it DOES make sense.
I had been given allsorts of explanations -some which caused me to question if I even knew the difference between right & wrong treatment from others.
Mark is exactly right, but let put it another way. Other people's actions do Not dictate our emotions/feeling/actions. If they do then, those people Own you lock stock and barrel through our own self victimization. When we start learn this and begin to practice Owning our feelings through "restraint of pen and tongue" we will find a new freedom from others. It's our emotional reaction to events that cause us to be upset. Even using the word "He/she made me angry" justifies, lays blame, and excuses us from the responsibility of our feelings, emotions, and subsequent actions.
Let me take this a step further out of this program and into another one. John Bradshaw wrote that we can become addicted to negative emotions for a number of reasons, primarily because of the very strong internal chemicals (adrenelin, dopemine...) from those emoitions, like dwelling on anger, remorse, self pity, shame, guilt... produce. These chemicals are stronger than any heroin you can buy and doing this imo sets us up to be internal drug addicts, and as such we would look for opportunities to victimize ourselves. We would also welcome these opportunities to reinforce our feelings of shame and self pity so that we could rationalize dysfunctional behavior ("if you had my life/problems...") and distract ourselves from our responsibilities, which is one of the main driving forces behind all addictions. Here's JB's definition of addiction again "Addiction is a pathological (Love to/Have to) relationship to a mood altering substance or event that has life damaging consequences".
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 1st of February 2010 01:58:52 PM
good timing! ..just what i needed to see right this moment..laughed when i logged on and this was the first thing i saw..higher power is awesome , program is awesome and happy 24 to u all :)
I don't know if this will help, but I am currently reading a book called "The Spirituality of Imperfection". Here's a passage from that book: (p. 28)
---------------------------
A spirituality of imperfection suggests that there is something wrong -- with me, with you, with the world -- but there is nothing wrong with that, because that is the nature of our reality. That is the way it is, just because we are human, and therefore limited, flawed, and imperfect. The name of the game, according to this vision, is I'm not All-Right, and You're Not All-Right, But That's Okay -- THAT'S All-Right.
The ancient tradition that we are exploring, the tradition that finds its modern fulfillment in Alcoholics Anonymous, suggests that spirituality involves first seeing ourselves truly, as the paradoxical and imperfect beings that we are, and then discovering that it is only within our very imperfection that we can find the peace and serenity that is available to us.
Something I have also puzzled over. Sometimes I just fall back on something that I was told early on. Acceptance is the key. I still don't understand how whenever I am upset then that means there is something wrong with me - it takes me time to figure it out and it always comes down to a failure on my part to accept people, places and things exactly as they are at that moment.
Some people are sicker than others. We are blessed in having a programme of recovery, leading to a better way of living. Many other people are not so lucky, as they don't have this programme. Often though, they don't know or believe that they could do with it.
For me acceptance also means taking things that work for the winners and accepting them without question - I suppose that's faith.
I don't really understand how a gearbox works, but I know how to use one, but then I'm not a mechanic so I don't need to understand that. I don't understand how acceptance works or really how the steps works. But I work 'em and they work for me, so do I really need to know?
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
The statement in question strikes me as very Confucian; therefore confusing
I interpret it along the lines of a Confucian statement "Hope is the cause of disappointment."
"It is a spiritual axiom that everytime we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us?"
A disturbing event, no matter what the cause, is an event. Mo more, no less. It is our interpretation of it that makes it a disturbance. While we cannot control events, we do choose our reactions.
OH...OH! I just remembered my favorite quote from The Art of War, by Sun Tzu...
"In serenity and firmness, one is not destroyed by events."
I think there is an element of what was, back then, just the emerging New Age-y world view infusing American culture. If you suddenly punch me in the face and I feel hurt and angry, scared, and ready for fight or flight, beleive me, there is nothing "wrong" with me!! I don't care for that text in the 12&12 because I think there is some danger of "blaming the victim" inherent in that perspective. I don't take it TOO much to heart...for me, it's all about balance and self-examination, and hearing from others, and talking/listening to /from my God...none of which can be summed up with a one-liner.
Flying S, that's a cool way of saying just accept everything because It Is! Everytime something that happens, that could cause us to experience drama, we have a CHOICE. Like dealing with a death of someone close to us, we can CHOSE to go through all the stages of grief-
7 Stages of Grief...
1. SHOCK & DENIAL- You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.
2. PAIN & GUILT- As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.
You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.
3. ANGER & BARGAINING- Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.
You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")
4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS- Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.
During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.
5. THE UPWARD TURN- As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH- As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE- During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.
Or you can CHOSE to move directly to acceptance. You've got to go there anyway, (unless you want to get stuck and be a perpetual drama queen) so why not skip all the drama (and save the drama for your mama ) and go right for the acceptance.
Now I can tell you that a good number of women (and a few men) will not like what I just wrote (and give fantastic examples of extreme situations like getting punched in the face, which face it (no pun intended lol) rarely ever happens) because likely they are very attached to these other stages and the emotions that go with (see my earlier post), but I urge all to suspend prejudice and give this a try.
Here' a little story to show you that I am walking the talk here. Last week I took my wife's Jaguar convertible to a mechanic. Upon my arrival to pick the car up, after it was fixed, he tells me that he parked it in the parking lot and it was hit and run in the rear ($4000 worth of damage). The car was mint and both of us love the car. I thought about getting really pissed and chewing the guy out, and wanted badly to yell at him (the owner of the shop) and tell him what a moron he was for parking such a valuable car in a public parking lot. I wanted to sue him, and not pay him for the repairs. Then I thought for a second. In a month I'll be 50 years old, which is prime time heart attack territory for males my age. I thought about my anger and how it makes me feel. I thought about the possibility of him getting angry and the situation escalating. I thought about how I used to settle these kinds of situations back in that day and how the law frowns on laying hands on another human being. Then I look him, and told him, calmly, that I thought that his business insurance should pay to fix my car at the body shop of my choosing. Then he said "why don't we let your insurance and my insurance companies sort it out and abide by their decision" and I'll pay your deductible if your insurance decides to pay the claim. I shook his hand and said "no problem". If I'd have let my emotions get the best of me, the issue would likely have taking months to resolve. I would've developed a whooper of a resentment and told the story over and over and over to everyone that I saw for the next 2 weeks reliving it and agonizing it, continuing to release those chemicals in my brain (see my earlier post). But because I moved directly to acceptance, and Decided to live in the solution instead of wallowing in the problem, I got to skip all of the crap and fellings about it. The car will out of the body shop tomorrow (the best body shop in town that only works on high end cars), I didn't have to pay a dime, and it's all behind me now. Done deal.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 1st of February 2010 10:44:47 PM
1. SHOCK & DENIAL- You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.
2. PAIN & GUILT- As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.
You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.
3. ANGER & BARGAINING- Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.
You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")
4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS- Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.
During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.
5. THE UPWARD TURN- As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH- As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE- During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.
Or you can CHOSE to move directly to acceptance. You've got to go there anyway, (unless you want to get stuck and be a perpetual drama queen) so why not skip all the drama (and save the drama for your mama ) and go right for the acceptance.
Now I can tell you that a good number of women (and a few men) will not like what I just wrote (and give fantastic examples of extreme situations like getting punched in the face, which face it (no pun intended lol) rarely ever happens) because likely they are very attached to these other stages and the emotions that go with (see my earlier post), but I urge all to suspend prejudice and give this a try.
Here' a little story to show you that I am walking the talk here. Last week I took my wife's Jaguar convertible to a mechanic. Upon my arrival to pick the car up, after it was fixed, he tells me that he parked it in the parking lot and it was hit and run in the rear ($4000 worth of damage). The car was mint and both of us love the car. I thought about getting really pissed and chewing the guy out, and wanted badly to yell at him (the owner of the shop) and tell him what a moron he was for parking such a valuable car in a public parking lot. I wanted to sue him, and not pay him for the repairs. Then I thought for a second. In a month I'll be 50 years old, which is prime time heart attack territory for males my age. I thought about my anger and how it makes me feel. I thought about the possibility of him getting angry and the situation escalating. I thought about how I used to settle these kinds of situations back in that day and how the law frowns on laying hands on another human being. Then I look him, and told him, calmly, that I thought that his business insurance should pay to fix my car at the body shop of my choosing. Then he said "why don't we let your insurance and my insurance companies sort it out and abide by their decision" and I'll pay your deductible if your insurance decides to pay the claim. I shook his hand and said "no problem". If I'd have let my emotions get the best of me, the issue would likely have taking months to resolve. I would've developed a whooper of a resentment and told the story over and over and over to everyone that I saw for the next 2 weeks reliving it and agonizing it, continuing to release those chemicals in my brain (see my earlier post). But because I moved directly to acceptance, and Decided to live in the solution instead of wallowing in the problem, I got to skip all of the crap and fellings about it. The car will out of the body shop tomorrow (the best body shop in town that only works on high end cars), I didn't have to pay a dime, and it's all behind me now. Done deal.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 1st of February 2010 10:44:47 PM
I can see all 7 stages of grief in your example, just that you powered through them so quickly to get to acceptance.
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Perhaps you're right Bill. I might have taken a small preview at each stage and said "ah, no" lol and moved on down the line. When unexpected stressful events happen and I feel my emotions wanting to explode, I take a deep breath and say a quick acceptance statement like "Stuff happens" or "It is what it is" or "that's an example of human nature" or "beam me up scotty" and then quickly say "live in the solution" (instead of living in the problem) and finally "find a workable solution to the problem" and "Ask for the solution".
It's easy to get stuck "living in the problem" and never find a solution, never ask for a solution. Our disease doesn't want solutions, it wants us to reach a hopeless and desperate state where we have to drink to ease the pain. And how effective will we be at problem solving, on an emotional bender (dry drunk) once we pick up a drink? Take a depth breath, accept the situation, look for a solution, ask for the solution, "Talk about it on the bus" and move on.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Tuesday 2nd of February 2010 10:42:58 AM
I'm gonna quote a friend in the program. "When I'm angry I'm wrong. When I look in the mirror every day the guy staring right back at me is the one who's gonna ruin my day. I am the problem"
The book says we don't have the luxury of justifiable anger, or the pity-pot for that matter.
When I am disturbed it is because some person, place, thing, or situation has become unacceptable to me and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it supposed to be at this moment............Nothing happens in God's world by mistake. Pg. 449 3rd edition.
Not sure if this clarifies anything but it came to mind.
I think that does really sum it up - am going to get my Big Book out and read that page again and PARTICULARLY when I am feeling p****d off at somebody or their behaviour. Yes I need to make progress on this issue.
The common thread throughout the replies it seems is a (healthy) 'acceptance'.
