First off, if this thread is too negative or otherwise inappropriate, feel free to delete. Or if a thread like this already exists please merge if necessary - wouldn't know how to search for it in this case.
Yesterday was my 5th meeting in total so I'm not totally sure of the lay of the land. But something weird happened that may be familiar to some of you so I was curious if people had any input.
About 10-15 minutes into the meeting a guy comes in. A bit disheveled, tattoos, earrings, rough grill. Please note I'm mentioning this as it may have swayed my opinion in retrospect. The discussion itself centered around the ability to accept criticism from others, and to a lesser degree to do so if you have 10+ years of sobriety around my belt -i.e. "look what I've accomplished, I don't need to be criticized!".
Comes around to this guy and he asks the guy running (chairing?) the meeting if he can speak off-topic. He gets a response that no, he may not unless it's absolutely important to him. The guy said it was and proceeded to say:
- first off, he told us that today was his one year anniversary - then that he was visiting from Florida with his wife - he recently discovered that he has a form of incurable cancer and three months to live, and that only 8% survive what he has - then that he found out a couple of days later that his wife was pregnant...with twins - how could he tell her about the cancer then? - they had to get back to Florida in four days, but didn't have a way there, someone was going to drop them off at a truck stop ~30 miles out of town - had no money for her to eat, didn't care about himself but cuz she was pregnant the priority was that she eat - his wife was showering and resting at a hotel before their perilous journey across the country
Now this is a tearjerker supreme but since these meetings are new to me I fell for it initially. But then started thinking, a year exactly/cancer/pregnant with twins/no money to get to Florida/no money for wife to eat, this is almost too many beats.
Contributing to my suspicions, after the meeting I stuck around and chatted with people and so did he. He asked if we knew of anyplace that could help. One of the guys said to check into churches in the area. He said he did, but none could help. I suggested using the internet at the hotel his wife was at, he said the hotel in question didn't have any. The other guy suggested a public library.
I then noticed as we walked out he got into a car - evidently his ride - with a couple of fairly shady looking guys in a car that simply shouldn't be on the road.
So yeah, this is pretty much a scam, eh? Now I am annoyed at myself for falling for it, guy crashes a meeting and pulls at my emotions more than likely so he could get a fix. It would be pretty lol if I run into him at another meeting in the near future nearby, as I have been trying out various places to find a meeting place and time that fits best.
On the plus side after his initial spiel I was considering hugging and giving him a $20, which honestly I can ill afford right now.
Is this commonplace at meetings? Nobody else gave him anything that I saw other than kind words. Perhaps these alcoholics - trained in the ways of leeching from the goodwill of others - sniffed it out and figured the best response was to do nothing. A few years ago an old lady came into my office and made a highly detailed story that made no sense in retrospect but I was a sucker and gave her $17 (all the cash I had), with her promise she'd come back tomorrow. When she didn't, I relayed the story to a friend who told me he was similarly solicited by the same looking woman at a nearby gas station. Now I am less gullible and better at spotting motives.
Hey DBZ, no I've never seen anything like that at a meeting. But these are desperate times and I got scammed (not in AA) a couple of times last year and I've more stuff stolen from my construction company this year then in the previous 20 years. Remember that AA meetings schedules are available to the public and this really has nothing to do with AA. If you have a meeting schedule for your area, look for meetings at churches, and also look for step meetings, speaker meetings, and big book meetings to try. You can call the local AA phone number and ask them to suggest meetings for you to attend. Meeting vary widely. I've attended up and downtown meetings in DC that made a bit nervous because of location and I've been to meetings in SoCAL, where the parking lot was full of exotic cars because of the holywood types in attendance. The message is basically the same, however I prefer meetings with lots of old timers in them.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 29th of January 2010 03:06:21 PM
It can happen, I know that I have felt a bit of a scam coming on with certain members but it doesn't occur a lot. The pros outweigh the cons. I suppose we can use the slogan, think, think, think, as if its going to cause us resentment we should detach from being fixers. These people hurt themselves more than us.
It sounds like a pretty rare thing, I have heard a few sob stories and told a few but in general I would say scammers are pretty unlikely to be successful in A.A. because our members, in general, are pretty streetwise and also we generally want to see some real commitment to getting sober before we put ourselves out too much for someone. We don't want to waste our time and energy on someone who's not ready, at the possible expense of someone else who is.
Just remember that there are a lot of spiritually sick people out there, and say a little prayer for 'em.
Not commonplace in my experience, but it does happen, and I got conned by a returnee, couple of days off a bender, he really, really meant the business this time, but had no food, no cigarettes, and no bus fare home.
He got the lift home from one guy, and I chipped in a tenner for food and cigarettes, but of course it was spent on booze. I felt bad that I had given him the money, and one old timer told me that it did happen, but the longer you're around you don't fall for ir so easily, and he also told me that if it happened again, give them food and cigarettes if I wanted to offer anything at all, but not to give them money, so they can't spend what I give on booze.
Oldtimers around here always say that AA members do not loan money, but if anyone does, it becomes a gift, not a loan, cos it's highly unlikely you will get back a loan from an alkie, drinking or sober. If you DO get the loan repaid, look on it as a bonus.
The poor guy I gave the money too died a few years ago, aged around 34 or so, which is around the same age as his mother was when he fond her dead due to alcoholism.
__________________
Serenity is Wanting what you have, not having what you want
Always remember non-alcoholic beers are for NON-ALCOHOLICS
Well i can tell you about one Doozy of a Scam.....i was at a mid morning 2 hour long Womens Meeting.....great neighborhood, most of the woman had long term sobriety, and some like me, had about 3 to 4 years at that time.
Well these three woman came in, sat down, and were all welcomed by all of us as "out of towners, visiting"....well it was not too long into the meeting when they began sharing their own tale of WOE......they claimed that the night before, they were at the Shell station, filling up on gas to being their return back to Texas.......when some man walked up behind them, with something under his jacket...eluding to a gun or whatever, and because the Shell station was closed, and only open for the people that were doing the self serve gas. We all know the station, and were aware that yes indeed it closed at night. So the man demanded all three purses, and of he went, they even came up with what looked like a Police report...ok here comes the Scam.....the one lady that did most of the talking got tears in here eyes, and talked about trying to reach relatives, but no one was home and they simply did not have a dime for food or the other gas it would take to get them back to Texas.....we all listened.......and after the meeting everyone sort of gave them their sympathies......until here comes the punch line.....trusting, gullable me bought the story, hook, line and sinker, and as we were going to our cars, I said "well there is an ATM about two blocks from here, so follow me. I took out $60.00 bucks and the thank yous were profuse, with us exchanging addresses, they Of course were going to mail the money to me as SOON as they got home. and they gave me their info too, phone numbers and addresses.
I walked away feeling like I had done a good deed for the day. never called them, until about 3 weeks went by......of course the phone numbers and addresses were all fake.
Laughing now at my own gullibility. and just like Avril said, someone said exactly that to me....if you ever give any money to anyone in AA - ALWAYS consider it a gift.
Today DBZ, I dont believe that those woman were in AA at all, the three of them had just cooked up a good scam, and made AA Meetings their targets. That criminal behavior really runs in course, and sooner or later they would get busted. But who cares, I dont, love that saying of "if anyone ever hurts you-----it is Always ON Them"!.
Thanks for your post, and your first curiousity about Posting this, DBZ, if it relates to you and your meetings, or alcohol, anything goes in this Program, my opinion, we would surely be a sad group of people indeed, if the requirment were to only post the Oh So Cheery Posts.....we would not have any members at all.
Toodles, Tonicakes
-- Edited by Just Toni on Friday 29th of January 2010 08:00:03 PM
I can't remember seeing a meeting scammed but I've had a couple of relapsers attempt to scam me. I don't give money to a drinking using member of the program for anything. I will buy "some" gas if their excuse is being out of it and I have handed the money to a store owner to pay for food to give to another lapser while the lapser was whining "why can't I just have the money?". The answer is moot since we both attended some of the same meetings. Haven't seen either of them for a long time though I've heard that parts of their journeys included jails and institutions. AA at the Bay does give away free Big Books to newbies and others who cannot afford one at the time and we give our ESH away for nothing.
We do tell a good story though HUH?
((((hugs))))
PS...on second hand I've seen a couple meeting treasurers run with the pot from time to time...that's a scam isn't it?
-- Edited by Jerry F on Saturday 30th of January 2010 01:47:48 AM
Im shaking my head. Not in disbelief, but in disgust . Cuz really ... there are some very, very sick ppl out there in this world and its sad.
I dont recall ( yet ) coming across anything like described here in an AA meeting. But this is just another case of where I can learn how I allow ppl to treat me, and how I want to be or in this case ... dont ever want to be.
My sponsor is an American guy and he got sober at meetings in a rough old part of a big city in the States. He told me that they actually had "no panhandling" signs up at his home group meeting! lol
I have to say that I have not had your experience at a meeting. I'm just coming up for having gone to meetings for a year, so in reality, I guess that I simply haven't been to that many meetings. But the program will equip us to deal with this kind of thing if we let it. Old timers will know best how to deal with this kind of thing...
That said, I like what Avril said about viewing money you loan in AA as a gift, if you get it back, then it's a bonus! Yep, good advice! :) I now live by that rule too. I haven't been scammed, like I say, but when my first (small) loan (equivalent of about 20 dollars) to a fellow AA member didn't get re-paid (or at least, I'm still waiting, lol) I felt a bit hurt and disappointed.
Looking back at it, I had this image of AA that was directly opposite to what we are taught in the Big Book...flush with enthusiasm at all the love, I guess that I though it said "We ARE saints". lol I now realize too that the only thing that I was hurting at feeling put out was my own sobriety...
Hey, maybe he was genuine? A lot of people are in a lot of sh1t.
I've been going through a very rough (Hellish!!) time recently trying to keep my business afloat and as a result keep my home (AND stay sober!!! Been sober several years). And, you know, very few people will help and I get very very down over it. So it's nice to hear of people helping their fellow man out a bit.... God bless you!
On Saturday May 16 2010 virtually the same scenario occurred at our home group. The changes were that he and his pregnant wife were from Texas rather than Florida and that their car had caught on fire and had been destroyed....and he had chest pains , thought it was a heart attack and was life flighted to a local hospital where he was diagnosed with "carcinoma" in his kidney and was given 3 months to live. Everything else you reported was idenical down to the truck stop. Red flags went up with several of the old heads at the meeting , however a few people gave him a $20....but before we had a chance to invite them to lunch with us they were long gone. They were in a well worn red van with a "Semper Fi" decal but it was parked so you vouldn't easily see their license plate.
I once asked an AA old timer to give a lead for me. I knew him well enough to have some respect for his sobriety and thought he'd be a good speaker. He said, "Oh, I thought you were going to ask me how to lose weight" and declined the lead, while trying to sell me his MLM bullshit.
I pretty much haven't spoken with him since. He never did this openly in meetings... but I thought it was a lousy way to decline a lead invitation, which is IMO one of the highest honors you can get in AA - at least I know I'm flattered to be asked, and I never say no unless it's just physically impossible for me to be there.
Once had a guy call me to "borrow" money. He offered to sign over an uncashed check made out to him for a similar amount - I declined. I figured in addition to losing the money I was handing him, I didn't want to get hit with a bank fee for the bad check too. It wasn't much money, and I'm pretty sure where it went. I never heard from the guy again, in spite of his declarations that it was going to be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Not sure what happened to him, if he ever got sober, or if he's even still around.
I once loaned a newbie 20 bucks food money, then drove him to a convenience store where he and his GF bought cigarettes and Doritos which pretty much killed the 20. A week later he paid me back "that 10-spot I borrowed"... LOL. I said try and get 3 packs of cigs and 2 bags of Doritos for $10. That was a long time ago. The guy stayed sober since and became a good friend... haven't seen him much lately though.
The only money I ever borrowed in AA, I didn't ask for. At my first meeting, a guy bought me a Big Book because I had no cash. And I went my first week without putting anything in the basket. Next payday, I paid the guy back for the book - he said it wasn't necessary, but I said it was necessary for me, and I tossed a 5 in the basket.
My home group always keeps several Big Books on hand along with other lit, the BB are gratis to newbies that don't have one - if the want to kick in later, that's fine.
The open meeting scam described in several posts is really rather bold and unusual. When presenting a sob story to a group, they may feel they are increasing the potential of success or getting multiple "donations" but they run a much higher risk - almost certain actually - of being called on it. Typically the scamming is done individually after identifying people that might be sympathetic targets.
Fortunately, I'm not perceived as a sympathetic target. At least not most of the time.
I remember taking my daughter to meetings during her early attempts to get sober. The women treated her like she had the plague, and the guys all hit on her. Some years later when she got sober for real, I observed that she was treated VERY differently in meetings - she got the respect of both male and female and no hitting-on or jealousy was observed. I think that's pretty interesting because she's the same person, looks the same, etc - but it's how you act and carry yourself, body language, etc. When she was working as a counselor, she told me about a co-worker of hers who was a good counselor, and well liked by the clients but he was constantly getting suckered into loaning money to clients and then being upset when he never got paid back. She said "For some reason, they never even ASK me!" I said it's because you got that look, that unspoken projection, that says "Don't EVEN ask" I must have a bit of it too, because it's rare anyone tries it on me.
