My daughter is 19 going on 49,(you know what i mean).She has had an alcoholic dad most of her life, ME! I dont think that i ask to much of her to understand and be patient as far as my alcoholism is concerned.She has become like my brothers and sisters where its detox or rehab first and then we will try to understand your disease.She doesnt want to hear about it while i suffer it,what makes me tick while i suffer it,and the reason why i suffer it.I have told her about allanon but she is not interested,its a bit like dad why dont you go to the doctor a get a magic pill. Do i have a right to ask people to understand what i go through? To perhaps go to the Allonon site and hear what those people have to say! I guess she is not ready to go there yet with me, but i must admit that she must harbour some pain and i understand that.I hope both my daughter and bros and sis will want to partialy play a role in my fight, because it would help greatly. Like i read recently, :Its a sad day when your version of a successful day is finding a fault with your alcoholic:Understanding can be a 2 way road as well sometimes. I havn"t murdered, raped, or robbed anyone, i have a disease called Alcoholism. THANKS BRETT.
Hey Brett GOOD TO SEE YOU! I turned this around here ,check this out.I have a 23 year old son,a heroin addict,he has a father thats a recovering drunk and addict(thats me).In our household he has boundaries that he must keep in order to live with us,that is not using,working a program of recovery and working on supporting himself as we will not enable him.Im not sure your daughter lives with you but it is reasonable for her to expect you "to seek sobriety"or she may not want to be around you.We had to put our son on the street in the worst period of his addiction because he chose to continue his ways and not seek help. Your correct maybe al-anon or naranon or coda may help"her" but that is also her choice.I would be careful here not to put your energy in 'what you think others need to do" but focus on your alcoholism and work toward surrender.Do you understand what a diabetic goes thru or someone with cancer or someone with clinical depression?People may never understand"us"I used to tell myself"Im a good person,I do church,I work and dont hurt nobodyetc..This disease will tell you all kinds of things and make you think its okay...Just because we have a 'disease' we cant use that as an 'excuse" not to seek help..probably not what you want to hear,but if your not being honest with yourself,it sure going be hard listening to someone else...People around you will do all kinds of things to try and "fix" you even when they know they can't,they also have to surrender(codependance,etc..)I wish you peace man,keep coming back ,dig deep inside be honest with yorself,We all been there man and we have to live with it "at the door" everyday!!This is a lifelong journey with no graduation but there is a promise of freedom and a message of hope..listen for it..
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Brett, I am the child of alcoholic parents and even with being a recovering alcoholic myself I can still have moments of terrible anger towards my parents.
My father would claim he never robbed anyone - yes he did , he robbed me and my sister of our childhood, he spent money that should have gone towards keeping us warm at home on booze. he robbed us of our inocence & trust as children....and so much more.
All this only became apparent to me through working the 12 Steps myself (as an alcoholic) and seeing how I as an alcoholic myself had 'robbed' other people.
Yes it's a disease - as I know myself. But if I REALLY believe I have a disease I go and get help and listen to the advice given to me and don't go around trying to get everyone else to understand my disease so they can "feel for" & understand me. I just concentrate on getting well.
That way I have something worthwhile to offer to them.
I too, am the child of alcoholic parents. They didn't rob, kill or rape anyone but my mother was not there emotionally for me as a child. We went without. Money was tight but there was always money for booze. I, too see how I replicated that pattern and alway knew what was best for everyone else. It is a disease but I try not to use that as an excuse for my behaviour anymore as it is only through working the steps and getting honest instead of minimising the effects of this disease that I can progress. It is not a competition of who does what and to which degree because this is a progressive disease and all these things are not yets for me. I am capable of terrible things with alcohol. I know you are too, that is the nature of the disease.
I think the same thing applies to this situation as any other: When we expect certain things of other people, we're bound to be disappointed because other people don't always do what we think they should. It sounds like you may be still trying to control the uncontrollable - when I say the Serenity prayer, one of the things I'm thinking about when I say the words "things I cannot change" are other people. Let go, relax and perhaps in time they'll change on their own. If you push them, they'll resist (just like you resist when you are pushed). If they don't change, you'll have to learn to just let that go rather than getting a resentment about it.
From the big book, page 60-62:
Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wished, the show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.
What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting that he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest happiness and satisfaction out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion, rather than harmony?
... We had to quit playing God. It didn't work.
-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Wednesday 27th of January 2010 07:26:51 PM
Aloha Brett...it's good that you're sticking around and looking and poking at this thing called recovery. Main thing in front of all other things is that you get and stay sober. Yes we care about others and then apart of caring is accepting where they are at as a result of the disease and then going on about our own recovery in spite of it. You have the ability to suggest they take a look at this family disease of alcoholism I don't believe in the "right" to do it. Kinda like saying there's a law somewhere that favors my point of view and power and control. I control my abilities with what I have learned here. It's early for you yet...have you stopped drinking yet? One of the changes family can witness is our change in behavior. If you haven't stopped drinking you don't know about recovery and don't have any valid suggestions for others especially those we have hurt with our addiction. You first...get the suggestions and follow thru on them. Don't drink and think...get to the meeting rooms and sit all the way down with an open mind. Listen and learn and practice what others are doing that keeps them sober. Get humble by getting a sponsor and asking that sponsor "please teach me". Get a Higher Power...some HP greater than booze, family, ego, pride, or anything else that hasn't worked up until now. Repeat daily.
brett wrote:Do i have a right to ask people to understand what i go through? To perhaps go to the Allonon site and hear what those people have to say! Nope. In my opinion, you don't. That's my sponsor's response when I asked him the same question. The people whose love we took for granted and wore down over the years don't owe us shit. They should be on our Step 8 lists and we don't deserve anything from them. They deserve our Amends. The twelve steps are about cleaning house and learning to take responsibility for our actions with the help of our only allies: God & The AA Fellowship.
Sorry if I'm coming off as a hard-ass; I'm usually the soft, squishy understanding guy on this site, but we alkies put our loved ones through hell and they don't owe us a fu**ing thing.
Brett, I'm hearing a lot of pain and misery in your family relationships caused by your drinking and also by that of your family members. I see alcohol having a firm grip on you and your thinking right now and it would appear that you are seeing alcohol as this big beast that is messing up everything, but also your friend at the same time cuz you can't live without it.
Take a step back and imagine now, what person you could be in the context of your relationships if you were sober and able to be totally honest. That would be very freeing and you would then become a survivor and not a sufferer. I clung to misery with alcohol for far too long. Don't do the same. It's amazing how we pour a depressant down our throats daily and then wonder why we have a poor me, self-centered attitude.....and then keep doing it on top of it all.
You can't get sober for your family, but they can sure be huge motivators in terms of you being able to be the person YOU want to be for them. Seriously Brett, I don't care how many times you have tried to truly stop in the past, but it sounds like you've given up on the idea of total abstinence. I do think you need to give total abstinence your best shot and to believe in yourself more....pray more....surrender to the disease in the sense that you know it's wrecking your life and you don't want that. I want to hear your day count and I for one will be clapping and cheering my head off when you hit 90 days and 6 months and a year....I am just some stranger to you behind a computer. Imagine then how your family will feel when you do that instead of continuing to rationalize ongoing drinking? Give this your best try Brett cuz your life depends on it. You don't have to keep drinking and suffer.
In support,
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Brett- As the child of an active and "unadmitting" alcoholic, I'm envious that you want to share this so much with your daughter. I'm 39 and have had an alcoholic parent for 30+ years (beginning with an accident on Valentine's Day that two siblings and I were in). Sad thing is, I didn't admit it until about a year or so ago. While she might not want to deal with it directly (I have no interest in looking into it with my mom either), she will benefit in the long run from your openness. She won't end up thinking, "I'm a shitty daughter because I suspect my dad has this problem." She knows it and she knows she's not crazy. Nineteen is still pretty young, I'd just leave the door open to talk about it and continue cultivating that positive, healthy relationship you both need. Hugs, Laurie
