New member in St. Louis

stardigan · Member

New member in St. Louis

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

That's quite an only major problem since it still leave you holding the postion of
Higher Power....ummmmm Congradulations on the dry time. Keep coming back.

Avril G · Senior Member

Hi Nikki, now I have absolutely no idea how big St. Louis is, or how widely spread your meetings are, but I have a friend over there, Kelly, who is American but used to live in Brussels Belgium, and we met in the Brussels John Volders meetings. Kelly is a lovely girl and I would love to get together with her again sometime, but everytime I go to Brussels, I usually hear she's been 3 weeks ago, or she's coming in 2 months, so our paths still keep crossing, so maybe one of these I may get to see her.

If by some chance you know this girl would you please pass my email address to her, as I have lost hers. I can't recall how long she's been sober now, but it must be 10 years or more.

Here's a link to 12-step guides which I have found useful

http://www.sober.org/

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Welcome to the board. I would suggest a thorough working of step 1 when you say things like "this time around"....Also, take up service in your home groups before worrying about spreading the message on the web. It's just my suggestion, but welcome and glad to have you here.

Mark

Aquaman · MIP Old Timer

Welcome, Nikki!
Step 2 hung me up earlier on, too. My agnostic self (not atheist; big difference) firmly believed that the human ability to reason was the greatest cognitive power in our proven universe. I was, in essence, my higher power.

So what did I do with this big fat 6lbs of synaptic gray matter? I used it to spiral over and over agin into drunken and drugged-out oblivion doing harm to myself and others over and over again. My ability to reason and my self-will did jack-sh** for me.

So, faced with the reality of my own self-destructive and dangerous nature I admitted that I was alcoholic and could not manage my own life.
What now? Looney bin? Nope. Came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. Sanity? WTF? You mean like...BEFORE booze? But how? By turning my life and will over to the care of God as I understood It.

Nope, that doesn't mean that I'm a bible-thumping, flower-selling, drink-the-kool-aid, "may I interest you in a copy of The Watchtower?" zombie. It just means that I acknowledge my station as just another critter on this big blue marble and that the only thing seperating me from It is Faith; the beliefe that It WILL take care of me in It's own way.

Step 1: I can't
Step 2: He can
Step 3: I'll let him

Good Luck Nikki - we'll be here for you and thanks for helping keep me sober another day.
Rob

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hi Nikki, welcome to the board. If you don't have one yet, get a copy of "The 12 steps and 12 traditions" book. And Or attend a 12 & 12 "step meeting" regularly. The group will read one step each week and discuss it at length. In that book, and on step 2, it suggest that we begin by being open minded and it describes the mental process as opening the door a crack and letting the light shine in. More will be revealed, but we must let go of our old negative ideas (about God & Religion) absolutely so that we may create a new idea of a loving higher power of our own understanding. We can also borrow one from someone until we have our own. My interpretation (or vision) of my Higher Power is a spiritual father, that sits in the football stands of life and cheers me on to achieve love, happiness, and prosperity. He's is always there like a good friend. The opposite of the punishing God that I grew up with in the Catholic church and schools. Remember that this is a spiritual program, which is way different from religion.

Dean

Just Toni · MIP Old Timer

Hi There Nikki,

An Welcome to MIP.

Agree with Dean, that 2nd Step did baffle me, for my memory was of a very Punishing God in the Catholic Church.....I stay hung up on that for a while. and it was truly a great relief to understand that this is not a Religious Program but a Spiritual one.

Once many years ago, when conversing on this subject, a very dear friend of mine offered an alternative....she said, "Close your eyes and imagine a God that would work for you, someone that Loved you Unconditionally, never Judged you, and no matter what, would always be there for you always, when you turned to HIM for anything, imagine your own description of a "Perfect God"......and then she said ok, now open your eyes, and when she saw that I was smiling, she said, Well Toni, Now Make Him YOUR God of your Understanding, and you know what Nikki, I dropped my version of that Punishing God, right there, that very moment.

As time as gone by, I have chosen my own Spiritual Path, not a religous Path, but a path that surely works for me.

My own HP, whom I choose to call God today, see's you and I in the very same light, both of us are two of HIS Beloved Children.

On this subject have to say that I have a very dear relative that has always professed to being an Athist, but ironically, his own kindness and compassion are really amazing things to observe.

Congrats on your Sober time, and is this your first time in AA?

Just curious,

A Big Hug, Toni

stardigan · Member

Thanks for sharing everyone...I am an atheist, and I have been since I was 8. I don't believe in spirituality either. I've tried believing in everything but it all seems so fake or untrue. That's why I mentioned step 2. I have no problem with step 1, I admitted that ten years ago.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hey Niki, adopting a higher power is not a requirement for membership, only the desire to stop drinking. It just makes it easier. Even if you went through the motions of using a higher power like a psychological model, what could it hurt? You have everything to gain and only your drinking problem to lose. it's personal and no one need know but you. Also consider that when you made this decision you were only 8 and it's likely, given the nature of our childhoods, that you were going through some stuff during that time. It's an idea that could possibly be revisited. In chapter 5 "how it works" it talks about how we "have to let go of our old ideas absolutely" with regards to the ones that didn't serve us very well. Our best thinking got us here.

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha again Nikki...Spirituality doesn't always mean or have to be connected to "God"
it also has an entirely "Ungodly" connection.   Try pondering this....when you are sad
or depressed or angry or other what does your spirit feel like?   When you are elated,
happy, joyous, free, content, what does your spirit fell like then? What can you go to
to cause this to happen. I know from my drinking experiences that when I went to
that higher power which controlled me and lived in a bottle that my spirit was always
down. When I go to any connection with the earth under my feet and the atmosphere
around me and the heavens and sky above me or the ocean at my feet and all that
is in it my spirit rises at a very fast rate. These are my higher powers and I go
beyond it as I have learned how to do that in recovery. Just a suggestion...keep
and open mind and present no defenses against what can and will preserve your
mind, body, spirit and emotions and an opportunity to bring another alcoholic into
recovery.

In support.   (((((hugs))))) smile

Avril G · Senior Member

stardigan wrote:

Thanks for sharing everyone...I am an atheist, and I have been since I was 8. I don't believe in spirituality either. I've tried believing in everything but it all seems so fake or untrue. That's why I mentioned step 2. I have no problem with step 1, I admitted that ten years ago.

I'm leaning towards aetheist too, and I posted somewhere else on here earlier this week that I came to 'accept and use' a power greater than myself. I have no understanding of how electricity works from flicking a switch to getting the power where you want it to go, but I use it all the time because it makes my life much easier.

Likewise, I do not understand the banking system, or the food chain system, as in how in hell do those chickens get from the chicken farm to the supermarket fridges??? I ain't got a clue, and I could maybe research it if I wanted to, but it's far far easier for me just to accept and use. Maybe I am praying to the electricity board? or some chicken farmer out in the countryside somewhere?? I dunno, but more importantly, don't care - it seems to work.

My Higher Power (HP) could be Harry Potter, he's pretty good at getting things done, so whatever, wherever my faith is, I don't analyze it anymore, I know many staunch aetheists who never say the serenity prayer after meetings, but they sure as hell make time to help the newcomer who walks in the door.

I spent 7 years still drinking trying to come to some kind of belief in God, until one member told me, 'Stop looking Avril, he ain't lost and even thugh you don't believe in Him, He believes in you. Try to get hold of a copy of the AA book Came To Believe, it sure helped me to understand that even aetheists can get beyond step 2.

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

I sometimes make jokes about it... like, I'll be listening to music and it's relaxing me, so I'll say "I think I'm gonna make John Denver my Higher Power instead." It's nice to be able to remind myself that it's MY CHOICE what the power greater than myself is, and I can change it at will. Just so long as I'm not the power trying to restore myself to sanity, 'cause that most definitely won't work.

Step 2 is HOPE, in my opinion. If you're still going to meetings, then you have it. Otherwise why would you be there? Move on to step 3!

:)

P.S. Don't complicate step 3 either. I heard an old guy once who said that to him, God as he understood Him was "Just doing the right thing." That kept him sober.

----

Oh, one more thing: I'm not sure what you mean when you say you don't believe in spirituality, but maybe you have a certain belief about what spirituality is - and you don't believe in that concept, but you may actually really believe in spirituality of a different kind without even realizing it. Might be worth checking out. My treatment counselor, in my first interview with him, asked me about spirituality and I flatly said I didn't have any of it in my life. Later in the interview he asked if I was suicidal, and I said no, I have a daughter. He said, "That sounds pretty spiritual to me!" He defines spirituality simply as having any kind of connection with anything other than yourself. I just looked it up real quick and found an interesting blurb on Wikipedia:

At one end of the spectrum, even some atheists are spiritual. While atheism tends to lean towards skepticism regarding supernatural claims and the existence of an actual "spirit", some atheists define "spiritual" as nurturing thoughts, emotions, words and actions that are in harmony with a belief that the entire universe is, in some way, connected; even if only by the mysterious flow of cause and effect at every scale.

-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Wednesday 27th of January 2010 07:06:20 PM

brett · Member

I BELIEVE IT IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO CHOOSE HOW TO FIGHT THE FIGHT,WELCOME BACK STARDIGAN AND GOOD LUCK!

Avril G · Senior Member

That's true, Glenn, I can switch and change my HP on a daily (or hourly) basis if I feel the need. I remember hearing a story in early days of a guy who said his Higher Power was a big old oak tree in the field behind his house, and he sat beneath it when walking his dog twice, sometimes 3 times daily.

Someone asked him, 'so what happens if the tree gets cut down?' and the guy says, 'Well, then I guess I'll have to find another Higher Power'