We are all familiar with "One Day at a Time", the message of staying sober in small increments. I used to scoff at that and perhaps I will in an hour or so. I was pacing around my apartment earlier today giving myself a pep talk. I'm in that all-too familiar place of being between a drink and a life, wanting both but knowing they are mutually exclusive. The banter in my head over what constitutes a "true bottom" or the state of "being full" and where that fits in with ACTION in the program, meetings, etc is nagging me once again. It occurred to me that if an alcoholic wakes up one day and decides he/she is DONE with drinking, absolutely without question DONE (know several people that have done this once and never drank again) then what is the value of the steps, the program itself?*PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE RESPONDING TO THIS RHETORICAL QUESTION* Because if someone is DONE then why do they need a program of recovery? I guess the obvious answer is that we inevitably forget that we are DONE and need help establishing a life based on humility, honesty and helpfulness. These are all mostly rhetorical questions because we all know a true alcoholic almost never recovers on their own. It got me thinking about this abstract and ephemeral concept of a "bottom". It seems that you are only as "full" and "DONE" with drinking as the fulfillment of your next proactive action regarding recovery.
*Looks around the room at all the faces nodding their heads as if I just discovered 2+2=4*
Because it is possible to wake up DONE, take rigorous ACTION through the program, stay sober for 20 years, stop taking ACTION and then drink again. So, in that scenario they weren't DONE, they hadn't hit their "bottom". It is like this overly simplified mind-puzzle- You're DONE as long as you don't drink again. That is where these concepts screw with my head because I do believe that everyone has to arrive at their own threshold of embarrassment, pain, and fear before they start to consider that they are an alcoholic, let alone do something about it. And, it would seem any threshold of suffering in this disease is of little good unless there is subsequent ACTION.
Over the Thanksgiving holiday my sponsor and I met several times both at meetings and at his house discussing my last spree and hinting at another beginning on recovery (both of us felt that was such a precarious idea that neither of us was willing to set any parameters). He said he thought I was a "chronic relapser", and I agreed (whatever that means- pathological liar/drunk? perhaps? who knows). Instead of the usual guilt and self-pity I started to support the idea that it would never end, my drinking that is. Maybe I could somehow carve out a life that included alcohol (fat chance I know). That I was constitutionally incapable of giving myself fully to this program, and that I would never wake up with an overwhelming sense of "DONE" lest I was dead or without a limb or two, was becoming a possibility in my head. So I drank, and drank, looking for a morning full enough of pain, degradation and fear that I would have an "AHA, I'm DONE" moment.
I guess the point of this long post is my struggle with the disparity between "a bottom sufficient enough to seek recovery and spiritual change" / "We can get off the merry-go-round anytime we want". These are two popularly used concepts but they seem contradictory. The internal question I'm asking myself every hour since yesterday is- "Is it worth the effort or is it just plain reactionary and pointless to keep trying if part of me still wants to drink?".
So far today, every hour I answer-"Yes it is worth it, because without ACTION there is no sobriety and my "bottom" doesn't have to be a predetermined time and place as long as I take it one hour at a time" I will act like that is the truth until an hour passes and then start over.
This has been brought up on here before by me I'm sure so I apologize to those that read through half of the first paragraph only to discover it was in fact another "duh" thread. ;)
Well I read and reread your Post, and did not understand the part of being "Done"
As I have mentioned to you many times, I was also a chronic relapser.....personally I feel that the "done" phase is more like the moment of surrending to that first step, the Powerlessness over alcohol....and the Disease of Alcoholism...in my mind, is NEVER done, why else would recovering alcoholics "need" their meetings and a lifelong adherance to the Steps of the Program.
If someone came to some conclusion that they were "done" why then go to any meetings or stay in touch with other Alcoholics recovering ONE DAY A A TIME.....
As far as my own chronic relapsing, well it was certainly not a moral issue, like patholoical liar, or whatever else you wrote, I was, looking back, just sicker than others,
And to that part of the "How it Works" read at every meeting, where it states that "some are unconstitutionally incapable of getting sober, they are not at fault, they seem to have been born that way, BUT SOME DO RECOVER, if they have the capacity to be Honest.
Dods, I always listened intensely to those words, for it describled me to a "T".
And yes I was granted a bottom, that was ultimately my own looking at the end of the line, my own death, it was my moment of asking a God that i did not understand, to please show me a different way....from that moment on, the Compulsion to drink was gone, I had no idea how long that lifting of that compulsion would stay, I was very very fearful of it returning, and my own recovery was based on First, and finally surrending to the Program,and finally, and only through the Grace of God, did I get that i was Powerless over Alcohol and my life was unmanagable, (fairly easy concept then, as it was getting close to taking my life) and when I said i was granted a bottom, what I meant by that, was it was a Awesome gift of complete desperation, not to die of this disease.
It was the meetings, the little 24 hour a day book, that was my bible, always had it with me. and finding someone that would sponsor me, and help me get through the remaining 11 steps, it was the 4th step that i did get hung on several times, like Step l, 2, 3 and drink, old toxic stuff that when finally put on paper, and talked about to another alcoholic, was a ton of old toxic shame that was not as big a deal, but I had to get it out, and in the following 5th and 6th and 7th step , there was no more toxicity to it, i had bared my Soul, to God, to another individual.
So Dods, we all love you, and personally feel that your words of Done, and Pathological Liar, and whatever else bad you can think of to say about your self, my take that is your Disease talking you out of what woul certainly save your life, the Surrendering to the having a Disease called Alcoholism, and from there, granted a daily reprieve.....(as in never "done")
So good to see you here my friend, and if someone like me, with my record of failure for 10 years, which carried all that shame and then with each passing year, convincing myself I was a just a bad person too.
We are not BAD people,we are in fact very good people with a very bad disease, called Alcoholish, for we are all God's Children, and someday before toooo long, hope so much that you will turn to God, and ask for help with not picking up that first drink, we surrender to AA, but in my case, I had to surrender first to a God that i did not understand, and guess what...it has worked for over 19 years, the only difference is now my HP, that I choose to call GOD, and is a profound FORCE that I have complete Faith in.
i have been really rambling here, so hope that you understand too.
Prayers going up for you my friend, and a big hug, Tonicakes
-- Edited by Just Toni on Friday 18th of December 2009 02:58:57 PM
Hey Dods, I'll try to answer your riddle. The drinking is just the symptom, the reason why someone who wakes up and is "done" with drinking and doesn't drink again can use the steps is to better themselves personally and spiritually. Yes there are people of very strong conviction that can walk away from their drinking problem and do it for a very long time. Maybe for the rest of their life. Most of these people aren't too happy and are what we call "Dry drunks". The still have all the alcoholic behavior, thinking, feelings, resentments etc.. but they just don't drink over them any longer. Some of the folks switched addictions (most of them) to being a work-aholic, or dozens of other addictions. Bottom line is that they are still hiding from themselves and their feelings. I'm sure you know some of these people. I do, and I'd characterize a couple of them as "grumpy old (and lonely) men". The have a hard time with relationships. And let's face it, life is all about relationships, whether it's with your family, friends, boss, neighbors, landlord, business associates, bank managers, governmental agencies, fellow church members, club members, condo associations, significant others (if you're healthy enough to have one of those), our higher power, and ourselves, it's all about relationships. And if we are a dry drunks, we're going to have lots of problems with many of these, especially with the self. And it's going to feel like it's perpetual and the world is going to hell because we can't seem to get along with anyone for an extended period of time. There a quite lot of recovering AAs that struggle with this, it really takes time and work. And in many ways we need more than AA can give to us, and that is why, In my opinion, the majority of recovering AAs live alone, but that's another subject. By the way, how's your social life Dods?
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 18th of December 2009 05:50:01 PM
Toni & StPeteDean- Well, I think typing out all that crap that I did and listening to your responses, I think I have a better understanding of all this. I just realized I've reproduced the chicken and the egg routine. After all that crap I was tumbling in my head, hoping it would come out polished, just came out with fractals. I'm back at square 1 which is good I think. My sponsor used to ask me to ask him what he knew about alcoholism and AA. He'd say "I don't know shit" Thanks for letting me air my craziness and for responding with sanity.
Social Life? Well, my parents' dog Charlie and I have forged a true bond: no talking required, just grunts and barks and huge parts of the day shared in mindless sleep. He teaches me how to beg, and I teach him how to urinate on a tree with two legs eyes closed (the former is quite hard) ;)
-- Edited by Dodsworth on Friday 18th of December 2009 06:57:03 PM
Hey Dods, there are many cunnundrums in AA. I kind of think this is why we latch on to the sayings that make sense to us. Other sentiments are more etched in stone. I have heard both "What do you have to change in order to get sober? Everything." and also "Don't make any major changes in the first year." Okay...not gonna nitpick that. Also there is a saying on the wall in the clubhouse saying "Think, Think, Think!" and meanwhile there is the saying "Don't think. Don't Drink." Also..."Get out of yourself!" and "It's an inside job." If I wanted to, I could really drive myself batty over these things. The fact that I've noticed this means I have the same potential to complicate things as you. Anyhow, the program is multifaceted and different elements work differently for different people. Regardless, it works and that's all that matters. I am not sure where the "I'm DONE" concept fits in for me. I can say that I have only picked up 1 white chip and I just have not yet reached any point since where it would seem to me that drinking would be better than what I have built in AA and...since my life is largely about AA now, I kinda feel like my whole life would be meaningless if I drank cuz how could I keep going to meetings and drinking at the same time? That would suck cuz drinking would ruin my AA fun and AA would ruin my drinking. I know I had "a bottom" that got me started on this journey. When I think about it, it was really a bottom that lasted for years but just hit its peak in a 3 or 4 day period of pure hell and craziness. There are also "bottoms" that we hit in sobriety in which everything that could go wrong seemingly does. I don't know this from personal experience yet thank god, but from other's who have been sober and got through those types of "bottoms" without drinking and by utilizing tools from the program or recommitting to the program. Anyhow Adam, I do think there is an innate self-sabotaging mechanism in all of us Alcoholics and it takes some real work to get rid of it or to just lessen it to the point of living a happy life. While I haven't drank in over 14 months, I still am learning perspective and to not freak, blow things out of proportion, create crisis and chaos where there is none, and to not trip over my own two feet. It has been a year of unlearning what seemed like innate reactions to me. I was used to living in chaos and despair so the ideas of "simple" and "serene" are coming to me really slowly and with time. I used to be all proud of the time I was accumulating sober and also that I did only pick up one white chip...but it not that meaningful anymore as I am an alcoholic with the same disease as everyone else in AA and the quality of my life depends on what I learn and how I apply it, not the time I have sober or how many tries it took me to build up some sober time. The only meaning those things might have is to a person who is new to AA and wonders if it is possible to not drink again after their first meeting. Also, if I have any desire to keep things that way, it all depends on the program I work today. Thankfully, we are all examples and of aid to each other. Toni would be one example of how it works for a person that seems to have questions about whether they will ever "get it" after a period of relapsing in AA. Either way, I am just grateful for AA in general because you are here to help me and I am here to help you. I don't want you to suffer or struggle any more Adam. I have read your posts and seen how hard this has been for you. You deserve sobriety, simplicity, peace, and happiness. You just need to want this for yourself and believe that not drinking and working this program is going to make your life so much better even if you hit moments where it really seems like a drink or drug is what your mind and body are screaming for. I am glad you are sober today.
Also...who the F cares if you are a "chronic relapser?" That is useless jargon. We are all chronic relapsers because prior to AA every single one of us tried to quit drinking multiple times, in multiple ways, and we failed. So I reach out to you as an equal. We have the same freakin disease here and I've been through what you've been through regardless of my "time" or how, when, and where I relapsed.
Mark
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Happy that so many heard you, and I wanted to add a thought to something Mark wrote:
"Also...who the F cares if you are a "chronic relapser?" That is useless jargon. We are all chronic relapsers because prior to AA every single one of us tried to quit drinking multiple times, in multiple ways, and we failed. So I reach out to you as an equal. We have the same freakin disease here and I've been through what you've been through regardless of my "time" or how, when, and where I relapsed."
Another cunnundrum for sure, yes who cares about the relapse time, no one, as long as we finally get sober, but on the flip side of that, each and everyone of those shame filled years that I felt I was not even fit to be living, I was not only feeling tremendous shame for not "getting it" I became that shame itself, now here is the flipside, or cunnundrum, TODAY each and every one of those years of having a hole the size of China inside me, that I finalily ONLY througth the GRACE of GOD, filled that hole with a profound L ove and faithfulness to my Higher Power, so today, those wretched years are precieved by me, as pure Gold, as in a Powerful and really thououghly researched course, of sorts, on WHAT NOT TO DO, with the battle that will always be there. But just for today, I will turn to God, thank HIM and ask him for another 24 hours..
Dods, I have had a question on my mind to you, If you were diagnosed with say Stage II, or Stage III, Diabetes, and had to take insulin everyday to save your own live, would you be applying all this brainstuff to what the Docs told you to do, and thinking over and mulling over each and everything you heard.....just curious.
Just like Mark said, we ALL just want to see you surrender, an not continue to suffer.....
That is my Prayer for you today..
Hope you have a good day, and may it be a sober one.
"He said he thought I was a "chronic relapser", and I agreed (whatever that means- pathological liar/drunk? perhaps? who knows). " What the entrenched chronicity means is that you are likely to have a harder row to hoe than some, because of it. But you already know that.
"Chronic relapser" is not useless jargon (no offense, pinkchip), and it does not mean liar/drunk. It is a descriptor of a physiological (not psychological) pattern in the disease progression, increasing in the later stage, and is actually valuable information to have, if correct. All relapse patterns are not the same. If I know what I'm dealing with, I can learn to deal with it better.
For myself, by knowing the true nature and severity of the physical aspects of my condition I can make sure that along with all the other tools I have, and must use, I have a really good doc in my corner who knows about treating my alcoholism...whether in remission or not...so I can get the best health care and can learn the particular types of "extra" vigilance I may need for strengthening my relapse prevention program.
Dods, Your post made perfect sense to me, I understand completely. And I really believe that when an AA member has concerns, questions or just simply needs to 'vent', these boards can be a good place to do just that. Then that person can receive others esh, just as has happened here.
Remember, we are suppose to help each other. And you posting has helped me to remember my last drunk which was ... my own personal bottom. And I did wake up and essentially and say to myself , "Im done". And that is when God removed the obsession to drink from me and over the next several days I finally, finally accepted that I was an alcoholic and if I didnt stop drinking I was going to die.
I know a few ppl who have just stopped drinking and they dont ( to my knowledge ) use any type of anything to replace the booze. So, where is my need for the steps and the program of AA ?? I could not imagine just quitting drinking , and there being nothing to fill that 'hole' that the booze took care of for me. Booze was my so called friend and helped me in a weird sort of way to determine how I was going to feel on any given day that I drank. The steps help me to get rid of the junk that kept me sick ( and can still make me sick if I disregard especially steps 6 & 7 ) . The steps help me to learn how to develop and maintain relationships, with .... God, my husband, my other family members, friends in and out of AA. The steps help me to learn how to live life and be happy on a regular basis. I was rarely happy when I was drinking. And today, I cant say that anymore, so I am very grateful.
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am done drinking for the rest of my life, regardless of doing it one day at a time. I know in my heart, mind and soul that I will never be a social drinker . I know I am the real alcoholic our book talks about.
And I must remember that I really only have a daily reprieve contigent on the maintainence of my spiritual condition that I can only develop and construct one day at a time.
I have learned over the short period of time Ive been sober and working the program that if I keep it simple and do not anaylyze or try to dig into my feelings to deep, I do best.
Again, thanks for sharing Dods. You have helped me to remember that the bottom line is I am powerless over alcohol, and that I need AA and the God I found here to keep me sober.
Thanks everyone for the replies. Went to a meeting last night for the first time since Thanksgiving. It was at a place called the 12/24 club, which is considered the "rough" crowd among AA groups here in town. It has the most meetings in town which I think is great because 3-4 times a day I can go there for a meeting instead of having to wait 3-4 days at other places. Anyways, its a good place for me because there are plenty of people there that are fresh and its less cliquish. Anyways, it was a "As Bill Sees It" group last night and we read excerpts from that little book which I had never done before. It was a good meeting, the kind of place that brings together young, old, black, white. It's not a neighborhood group if you know what I mean.
The topic was "rationalization" lol
I can see that my reactions to people, places, and things are becoming very defensive and ugly. I hate that! I didn't used to be like that. The chairperson was commenting on one of the readings and she said something about stopping and thinking before we say or act on anger/resentments and that pausing and examining that will eventually become automatic with time, meaning we won't have to struggle with being decent people eventually. I guess that idea sort of hits upon my original question about being "done" and "action". It is a process in every sense, right? That sort of takes the pressure off of thinking I should be a certain way when I begin trying to stay sober. No white light here, and no pink cloud, but someday right?
It's only been 5 days since my last drink and about 4 since I wasn't drunk but man it feels like a month!
Thanks for the ESH everyone.
-- Edited by Dodsworth on Sunday 20th of December 2009 11:35:11 AM
StPeteDean- That thing about recovering alcoholics living alone. I have noticed that among alcoholics in my community that I know who have multi-years of sobriety in the program, a vast majority do live alone. Of course a good deal of that can be chalked up to marriages gone asunder due to the alcoholic no doubt, but what is the hangup you think with forging new personal relationships with non-alcoholics? Rhetorical if need be, just throwing it out there.
Hey Dods, I'd only be making assumptions and playing amateur psychologist to entertain that question. All I can really do is offer my experience and what helped me to become ready to have a long term healthy relationship.
I understand. Scratch the question, its not something I ought to be worrying about anyhow I suppose. It'd just turn into more rationalization for drinking. :)
Sounds like a great meeting! How is your nutrition? I ask because part of relapse prevention has to do with physical health and too much sugar, not enough water, too much refined and processed foods, not enough decent sleep, too much (way too much, not just 3-4 cups) coffee/soda, not enough real vegetables etc. etc. really can tear down what we are trying to build up.
My disease is three-fold: physical, mental, and spiritual. IMHO many of us tend to downplay the physical aspects that leave us more vulnerable to having to have that drink. While we readily acknowledge the work we need to do with the steps, sometimes we forget the that there is so much more current knowledge today (about the body/alcoholism) than was available when AA was established, and...again, IMHO...none of the things we've learned about some of the physical/brain aspects contradict anything embodied in the steps and other AA literature.
For me, I absolutely have to have a personal physician who knows about my condition in order to maintain balance and increase the protection of my sobriety. If I drink, I die, and I am powerless over alcohol and even with double-digit sobriety I have no illusion that the disease currently in remission can re-emerge at any time. So for me, it's not just about the quality of my spiritual condition and doing the next right thing, it's me understanding and respecting the physical aspects as well. Probably preaching to the choir, but your story really touched me.
