Do you think that there is such a thing as a bad meeting or a bad group? If there is, how do you tell the difference between the good and the bad ones? What are the criteria you use?
As I stated in a previous post it's been quite a few years since I've attended meetings. I think I went to close to 100 meetings in all.
The ones I didn't like going to were the ones where it seemed like every other person speaking was in a competition to see who the biggest, baddest alcoholic in the room was.
Then there were the meetings where it was all about the popularity of the individual who was sharing. Their full blown AA Rock Star status could never be questioned. And then there were the cliques they belonged to. It was like high school all over again.
I was glad to find that not all meetings were like this, however, and that not all rooms were the same. There were meetings that made me smile, gave me hope, and reminded me that I was in the right place and doing the right thing.
Jeff, Most of the meetings I go to are quality meetings. The one's I don't like I stopped going too. You made a good point: "There were meetings that made me smile, gave me hope, and reminded me that I was in the right place and doing the right thing." These are the meetings you want to attend.
Good meetings for me are: One's where people welcome everyone in, speak of recovery and work the program as it's laid out in the BB. Talk of a HP, Sponsorship, Steps, Fellowship, Service Work and Pass the message on.
I stopped going to a few meetings were the core group of members stayed sober without the use of the steps and talked openly about how steps aren't needed. AA is a 12 step program; no exception.... IMO
Good groups are the one's that welcomed me in and made me feel comfortable from the initial visit during my recovery and practice the outline above of a good meeting. These I make my home group or attend on a regular basis.
Hope this helped, it help me answer your question.
Meetings Are groups. And the groups, in accordance with the traditions, are autonomous, self supporting, self run, and self governed. And as such there are members of said groups, regular visitors, infrequent visitors, and one time visitors (like out of towners). When you are attending a new meeting, think of it (and act accordingly) like your the guest of a family of an acquaintance. As a guest, you are cordially invited to join or you can vote with your feet, or leave and not come back. It's neurotic, imo, to complain about a group that you don't belong to. Now if it's your home group, go to the group conscience meetings and vote to change things, or take a position in the group and do the same. But to complain about groups and their meetings generally looks like an excuse for not attending meetings regularly. Sorry got call it like I see it. Give groups, meetings, and people a chance. We're all trying to get better here. This isn't Toastmasters lol.
Dean
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Wednesday 11th of November 2009 02:10:54 PM
Hey Jeff, good to see Ya. Thankyou for sharing your concerns and questions about meetings.
I dont use meetings to keep me sober, but I'll tell ya .. even when I run upon a so called bad meeting, at least Ive stayed sober for that hour, so it cant be all bad. And I learn from the 'not so good' meetings too. I learn that I dont have to go back there if I choose not to . I rarely say I will never go back to any one particular meeting for whatever reason.
Lotsa ppl in the rooms of AA still full of ego. I expect this . Lots meetings without any uhhhh so called structure to them.
I search out the BB , step & tradition meetings. These are where I get the best esh and I learn more from these types of meetings vs. the so called 'barefoot' or open discussion meetings.
I realize it is suggested that we dont compare in AA, but I do. And this is what I mean .... See when I was out there boozin' it up, I was for the most part a bar fly . there were certain bars I would drink at and some I wouldnt. Sometimes it depended on who the 'regulars' were or even who the bartender was on any given day. If I walked into a bar and there was somebody there I didnt particularly care for, then Id sit away from them, usually order only one drink and head out to the next watering hole. So, I sorta do the same with AA meetings . There is nothing that says I have to like everyone in AA, and to be perfectly honest .. I dont like everyone. I have however developed a different outlook on individuals and do not wish any harm to anyone.
We are also instructed not to judge .. ppl . But listen , If I walk into a meeting and it aint nothing but a 3 ring circus with a bunch of clowns messin around, then sign me out, I dont really want any part of that. Forget the ' we are not a glum lot' . I aint glum either, I like to have fun, but when it comes to stayin sober and an AA meeting ,this happens to be a matter of life and death for me ,and I do happen to take it very seriously. If others dont, thats their deal.
I stick with the Winners. I prefer to hit AA meetings where the members are acting level headed and talking about recovery, not how they got drunk. I KNOW how to do that just fine all by myself , dont need no help there.
" But to complain about groups and their meetings generally looks like an excuse for not attending meetings regularly. Sorry got call it like I see it." -- Dean
No need to apologize, Dean. I appreciate your input. I guess when it comes down to the good/bad thing, I'll have to remember to "Take what I want, and leave the rest." Sobriety over ego, right?
I think that a lot of us feel that way at certain times. I know that I did, and can do. There are some meeting chairs that will only call on people that they know and ignore others who have there hands raised, even if no one else has there hand raised. That kind of irritates me, but it boils down to one of "the things that I cannot change". Someone else posted out that 12 step meeting, BB, and other structured meetings are typically quality. I would recommend looking for older meetings, such as the ones held in Churches.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Wednesday 11th of November 2009 05:01:18 PM
No big deal Jeff. Most of your older meetings are held in space rented from churches. There are some 50+ year old meetings that have been in the same location from day one. You'll have a lot of old timers in these meetings and the quality of the meetings usually be higher as far as the topics and AA message go. Hope this helps. The groups have no association with the Church other than landlord/ tenant
My home group and only one I've evere known is the only daily group for sixty miles and it just happens to be at noon, so it has become my lunch hour for four months.
We have our cliques, and our Rock Stars and so on. We're also a very diverse group. 1/4 of them are farmers and all I know about agriculture is that food goes in one end of a critter, poop comes out the other and what's in between becomes meat. We have housewives, retirees, self-employed folks, unemployed folks, college folks, illiterate folks, Mr. Happy-Pants and curmudgeons. Then there's me...a radio salesman/copy-writer.
What we all have in common is we're all alkies and we all need each other. They put up with my crap on bad days just like I put up with theirs. We got a lot of love, though.
I guess what I'm saying is that because I can't really choose my group, I'm blessed with a daily practice of acceptance, humility, unity and love. I wouldn't trade those freaks for all the bourbon in Kentucky. Literally.
Well, my sponsor says that if you've never been to a bad AA meeting, then you are not going to enough meetings.
I've been to about 2500+ meetings, most them in Nashville, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Oak Ridge, and Gatlinburg. Assorted meetings in the first three towns. Yes, there's such a thing as a "bad" meeting.
I've been to meetings wherein 2 or 3 people talked the entire time. I've been to meetings with active drunks who wouldn't stop babbling. I've been to meetings with too much cross-talk or way too much obscenity. I've been to meetings wherein a person slept and snored throughout the meeting. I've been to meetings wherein people just bitched about everything or argued with each other. I've seen chairpersons talk too much or not enough-- losing control of aforementioned situations. I've definitely experienced all the things Jeff talked about in his original post.
BUT I've also learned something from every meeting I've ever attended. I've never walked out of a meeting. Really, the only reason some groups might be seen as "bad" is that the others are so damn good. Good or excellent meetings outnumber bad ones by about 99 to 1 -- no matter where you are.
I'm fortunate to be in an extremely wonderful group here in Gatlinburg. We meet in the upstairs of a church but they used meet in a room above a liquor store. It's a hodgepodge mix of people and everyone respects each other. We see our similarities more than our differences. We focus on the solution more than the problem. There's a lot of laughter. Everyone talks before and after the actual meeting. I always feel better after a meeting. We absolutely respect the Steps and Traditions. The group just has good vibes.
Incidentally, this site is better than most.
I'm just glad to be here. Thanks for letting me share.
Jasper, I gotta say I loved your post. I completely agree. I think its only realistic to acknowledge that every single meeting we attend isnt a fantastic meeting. The first group I joined as a home group I picked because it was close to home. Week after week I hated it more and more. It seemed the old-timers were very clique-y and newcomers came and went without so much as a handshake or a hello. I stuck around for 9 months, attended business meetings and tried to adress that issue, but nothing ever changed so I moved on. The learning opportunity for me was knowing what I can change and what I cant. I love my home group now. It feels like family. And our primary purpose is to carry the message to the alcohoic who still suffers.
Jasper, that was awesome and so was your share Aquaman. Brought back a lot of memories. I'm kinda like a ghost in my AA club. Like a piece of antique furniture that most don't even know I'm there or where I came from. I go and listen mostly, to the "rock stars" lay it on thick with classical AA cliche and BB verses. When I share, which is seldom, It's compilation of a few programs, books I've read and personal observation and experience. It's probably not what people expect to or want to hear as it's not straight up AA speak, but that ok because I know that one day they'll hear and it. Great topic. And by the way, I stand corrected by another member about "Groups vs. Meetings". Apparently I didn't know that meetings existed that weren't "Groups" because I was never a GSR or aware of one. There is always something to learn.
So amazing, I was wanting to do a thread on this topic, but feeling a little chicken as I have been especially sensitive lately. In my five months in the program I have noticed all sorts of vibes in meetings. Some are so great that I feel dissapointed when I don't get the lovin' feelin' in other meetings. Even the regular meetings I love can be different week to week. I agree that at a minimum, even if I hated the meeting, at least I was focused on recovery for an hour plus. I always get something from them to learn and grow from whether it's a lovey dovey or an angsty, angry type meeting.
That said, I live in an smaller place where meetings are somewhat limited. We are blessed to have a club, I think it's been around nearly forty years. For the past few months I keep hearing some old timers(a few who helped make the club happen in the 70's) and people in my meetings out of the club say they won't go there any more. I am a little disturbed by this. I was at a meeting recently where there was aggressive yelling, and negativity towards someone I see as clearly having mental lapses that are more challenging than any exibited by the rest of us sick people. Two others seemed to me to gang up on the guy, and tell him he shouldn't come. This really bothered me. It didn't appear that this was anybody's home group. I kept quiet and am hard pressed to go back to that one. Then I heard that there was an actual fight the same week. I figure I'll let others with more sobriety sort it out. I hope we don't lose the club. I have talked to my sponsor and that has helped.
Today, I went to go to a meeting at a community center, which turned out to be closed for Vetran's Day. No one realized this last week. Some of us went down to the club and held an impromptu meeting in the back room, but the majority said they wouldn't go down there. A lot of these people have big time in the program. I'm happy to go to a meeting regardless because I don't stay sober alone. There are many components, but contact with other alkies is essential.
I talked Monday to another member about when to speak up when a meeting seems to be heading towards a void that forgets about the traditions etc. Like when to suggest a group conscience on the spot. I'm still feeling that stuff out. That's why I've turned down offers to chair b/c I think that role is very important and I don't feel able to handle it-close but not quite. Reading the posts here is one way more for me to see that there are all types of meetings, so that when I do chair, I don't freak out when it doesn't go the smoothest.
Another thing I wanted to mention is that in my town people come late to meetings regularly. At the clubhouse meetings, it is common for 50% or more! of the attendees to show up half-way(or more) through. I personally think if someone needs to be there, they should come even if it's for the last five minutes.(The hand always reaches out) Also, I sometime have a problem with lateness, but of course I usually manage to squeek in at the opening minutes. Many times at the club there are people who know the meeting is about to start but are out smoking or getting snacks, and come in one by one as you please. I'm wondering if this lateness is something else, or just a part of the disease. I find the meetings more cohesive if most people are there for the opening rituals. Some meetings are not doing the 7th tradition till the very end b/c of the lateness issue. I try to keep an open heart and just be glad I am there with others willing to try sobriety. So often all this stuff seems so confusing.
Thank you all for sharing and the great topic too, Angela
-- Edited by angelov8 on Thursday 12th of November 2009 03:11:25 AM
I'm wondering if this lateness is something else, or just a part of the disease. I find the meetings more cohesive if most people are there for the opening rituals. Some meetings are not doing the 7th tradition till the very end b/c of the lateness issue. I try to keep an open heart and just be glad I am there with others willing to try sobriety. So often all this stuff seems so confusing.
Thank you all for sharing and the great topic too, Angela
-- Edited by angelov8 on Thursday 12th of November 2009 03:11:25 AM
All the local FL meetings pass the baskets at the end of the meetings. I think the reason why some people come in late is all the readings at the beginning of the meeting. Some meetings have so many it takes 15 minutes to read them. Granted it's good for people in their first several years to absorb it, but ...
I believe there should be rotating spots for newcomers to do service. Yeah it's humbling to clean ash trays, bathrooms, and mop floors, but at 6 months, you really do have the ability to chair a meeting also (you meaning anyone who is at 6 months or above..not just Angela)and I personally think it's a good experience. The longer you go to AA and never chair, the more you start thinking that job is something special when it really isn't. Plus it allows certain people who might be inclined to become the "bleeding deacon" type to do so and AA is not for 1 or a couple people to run the show. The whole emblem for AA is the triangle which is the sign of change. Meetings need to stick to the traditions but people need to rotate and share service. Change.
I do believe there are no bad meetings...just ones that might not have been the greatest...for me. Another person could leave the same meeting and be like "Wow that meeting changed my life!" The newcomers meetings I was going to 3 times a week are good but I'm at an odd spot right now. I sort of think I need to hear more from oldtimers and go to more spiritual meetings though I feel sort of like an ass being like "got my year...see ya guys!" I don't really feel like "keeping it green" benefits me that much cuz it still is pretty green for me. My favorite group is the one small straight meeting I go to by my work. There are about 10 core members and all but a couple of us have double digit sobriety. Those people have taught me more about recovery than I learned anywhere. There is no hurtful gossip, no gay drama (clarify that half the meetings I go to are at a gay clubhouse), it is very relaxed, and that is where the message just seems purely on recovery and God is working through the members of the group. Just my take on it.
Mark
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
LOL StPeteDean...I was just about to "bite" on the "groups ARE meetings" thing when I read on and see someone beat me 2 it.
If I am not able to give of my ESH, and/or receive any ESH from others after giving the meeting or group a fair shot over a period of time, I take myself elsewhere. But I would try and speak with the GSR at some point, just to do due diligence (doo-doo diligence?)
Well, my sponsor says that if you've never been to a bad AA meeting, then you are not going to enough meetings.
I've been to about 2500+ meetings, most them in Nashville, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Oak Ridge, and Gatlinburg. Assorted meetings in the first three towns. Yes, there's such a thing as a "bad" meeting.
I've been to meetings wherein 2 or 3 people talked the entire time. I've been to meetings with active drunks who wouldn't stop babbling. I've been to meetings with too much cross-talk or way too much obscenity. I've been to meetings wherein a person slept and snored throughout the meeting. I've been to meetings wherein people just bitched about everything or argued with each other. I've seen chairpersons talk too much or not enough-- losing control of aforementioned situations. I've definitely experienced all the things Jeff talked about in his original post.
BUT I've also learned something from every meeting I've ever attended. I've never walked out of a meeting. Really, the only reason some groups might be seen as "bad" is that the others are so damn good. Good or excellent meetings outnumber bad ones by about 99 to 1 -- no matter where you are.
I'm fortunate to be in an extremely wonderful group here in Gatlinburg. We meet in the upstairs of a church but they used meet in a room above a liquor store. It's a hodgepodge mix of people and everyone respects each other. We see our similarities more than our differences. We focus on the solution more than the problem. There's a lot of laughter. Everyone talks before and after the actual meeting. I always feel better after a meeting. We absolutely respect the Steps and Traditions. The group just has good vibes.
Incidentally, this site is better than most. I'll second that Jasper.
I'm just glad to be here. Thanks for letting me share.
Great post Jasper, I agree entirely. There ARE many bad meetings, though in my experience, there's more good ones than bad, it's a bit like looking for the differences and not the similarities.
__________________
Serenity is Wanting what you have, not having what you want
Always remember non-alcoholic beers are for NON-ALCOHOLICS
Many times at the club there are people who know the meeting is about to start but are out smoking or getting snacks, and come in one by one as you please. I'm wondering if this lateness is something else, or just a part of the disease. I find the meetings more cohesive if most people are there for the opening rituals. Some meetings are not doing the 7th tradition till the very end b/c of the lateness issue.
