I've got a great sponsor. I've also got depression and anxiety that I've been getting treated for years. Re-uptake inhibitors have worked well in controlling rage outbursts, panic attacks and suicidal urges. AA and being free of additional mood-altering chemistry has helped even more. For example... In four months I've raised my voice to my kids only a handful of times and even then, it was because the two-to-three previous reasonable attempts to gain co-operation had been ignored. Before abstinence and The Program, I yelled to imtimidate and gain immediate compliance; booze let me justify parenting like I was parented even when I knew it was wrong.
So I just got off the phone with my sponsor about my relapse and he is strongly urging me to get off ALL psychoactive meds and rely completely upon the program. I'm not cool with that. Not at all. It only takes one un-controlled mis-fire in the old brain-pan to have an outburst that could cost me my job, my marriage, my life or my freedom. My sponsor is not an MD.
I don't know what to do. I want to g r a d u a l l y taper off my meds so I can have some more spring and libido back in my life anyway, but I've done some dumb sh** in the past when I just "went off my meds".
My head and gut tells me to consult with two professionals; 1) my MD and 2) the substance abuse counselor that I've started seeing since my relapse and do what they tell me is the right thing to do. I don't want to lose my sponsor. I don't want to lose AA. I wish to continue a humble relationship with my HP, but I can't be like one of those Fundamentalists who lets themselves bleed to death because a blood transfusion is cannibalism. Y'know what I mean?
I agree with consulting with the Docs/Councelors. Your sponsor sounds like a great guy, but he may not understand all the issues. If the Doc/Councelors feel its worth tapering back then fine. Tom
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When I saw your post, I had to pull out the pamphlet, "The AA Member-Medications and Other Drugs".
We have discussed this issue quite a bit in the meetings I have attended. I have also spent time talking to my sponsor about mental conditions, drugs and AA. I have listened carefully to POV's. I am not currently using anti-depressants, but have in the past. Also in case I am needy at the doctor or dentist, I prefer to have thought ahead about medications and recovery.
If you haven't already, I suggest reading or re-reading the entirety of this literature. From a report from a group of physicians in AA: #3 on the first main page states, "No AA member plays doctor"
The first part is a beware of the special dangers for members using prescription drugs. That is followed by a section called, "-However, some alcoholics require medication..."
I have no thought on what you should or shouldn't do. I found this information well thought out and prepared.
About the last 5 yrs or so of my drinking I was depressed and moody and anxious, etc, etc. All the while not knowing what was causing this, and so very ignorant that my drinking was the cause. Ive tried many different anti-depressants either while still drinking, or while trying to stay dry. Absolutely none of them worked ... they are pills that merely covered up a symptom in me, they most certainly didnt cure me.
When I first tried to get sober in 02, I was scarred to death . And I fiugred I needed something to help . So however or whoever I heard from about this drug called Xanax I went to my doctor and asked for soome. Her with full knowledge of my alcoholism warned me that I would be simply trading one addiction for another . I claimed , " Yes, I know but poppin a pill would be SO much better than me getting drunk ". She wrote me a script. Now, I am not a pill popper, Im a boozer . I rarely took the xanax , but did on a few diff times when ppl, places and things got to me to calm me down. The pills worked. Then I drank again. The pills did NOT cause me to drink, I did that all on my own.
So, in 04, my last drunk I was talking to my sponsor and told her of this stuff Id found that was over the counter ... some mood enhancer good for your liver, etc, pills. Expensive too. This is what my sponsor said to me....
" Lori, I am not a doctor and do not claim to be one either. Why dont you try just using the program, God and the steps to get you sober . Try this for one year . And if after one year you think or feel that you still need something, then by all means go see your Doctor ".
I took my sponsors suggestion and I am still drug free today after almost 5 yrs without a drink.
Aquaman, I agree that you shouldn't mess with you meds until you've got a year or two of sobriety and then only with the help of your MD. If you are on these kind of meds, should you be in therapy? Have you given any thought to attending anger management classes? I would suggest that you read step 10, in the 12 & 12 book daily for a couple months till you're eating, sleeping, breathing, walking, talking, and living it. Then when you feel your blood pressure rising, whole paragraphs of step 10 begin playing in your head. It helped me tremendously, and step 10 Is one step that you can work out of order, in my case it keep me sober. Anger is just the fear of loss of control or self centered fear. Fear being "the chief activator of all character defects". Are you attending a 12 & 12 step study group weekly? I attended two per week (one was my home group) for the first 3 years. One was on monday, to get my head right for the week, and the other on Friday, to get my head right for the weekend. That had me reading the whole book 8 times a year on a rotating basis. Step meetings are what I consider high quality AA, you won't hear people in these beyotching about their boss or the boyfriend in them. This is the road to getting off your meds, if getting off your meds is possible, and imo it probably is. I had a lot of depression and anger and muddle trudged through it the first year. My mother was a psych patient for 15 years, two nervous breakdowns, two stays in a mental ward, and continuous meds. She was able to get off her meds after her first year of sobriety. She now has 33 years. You can do it but it will require working hard to change.
I agree with Dean...(standard statement). I take half the meds I used to. I also know from experience what happens when I go off my meds completely and it is not good. I still need to work some serious change from the inside and my surrendering to AA has been the largest long-term fix and gives me more hope that I will not have the same mental health problems for the rest of my life. For now, I take what is prescribed though. My sponsor suggested a 2nd opinion from a new psychiatrist in the first few months...That was because a major depressive episode hit me 2 months in....I also started seeing a therapist at his recommendation too. I'm skeptical because I had "mental breakdowns" before I morphed into a raging alcoholic. We shall see...more will be revealed and I am becoming more resilient and more stable. No doubt about that.
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Funny, I've been wondering about the same things. I've been taking antidepressants for years and would really like to get off of them. I too know that going cold turkey doesn't work very well. I'd go with getting the medical opinion.
Thanks very much. I made a meds review appointment with my physician for tomorrow. He is familiar with all of my history and with AA. I think he's also my sponsor's physician. Thanks for the advice on the 12x12 step 10. Thanks also for the info about the pamphlet. I'll see if we have it in our home-group box.
I have made up my mind about what I'm going to do. I want off the meds the right way. I'm going to ask my physician HOW to safely back-off and in what order. The 6lb bio-processor in my skull isn't tuned quite right and I don't want any malfunctions when there are lives (mine!) at stake.
I can't give advice but I can share my experience. I have been taking meds for the past 12 years of my recovery. The first 10 I wasn't - and didn't have a clue what was wrong with me. After some strong encouragement from my friends and sponsor in the program I did seel professional help. My doctor strongly suggested for me to continue working and living the program, take meds as directed, therapy for two years. As a result I am a well balance person most days. Medication did solve my problems but a combination of the program and meds saved my life.
Rob-- I think it is reckless of your sponsor to advise you to stop taking meds... and would be reckless of you to follow that advice. Is your sponsor your psychiatrist? Neurologist? Your family doctor?
On page 313 of Daily Reflections(Alcoholics Anonymous World Services), are the following lines:
"As an A.A. member and sponsor, I know I can cause real damage if I yield to temptation and give opinions and advice on another's medical, marital, or religious problems. I am not a doctor, counselor, or lawyer."
I would no sooner tell you to stop taking your meds than I would tell a diabetic to stop taking his insulin or a schizophrenic to stop taking his antipsychotic drugs.
Don't drink, no matter what.
-- Edited by jasperkent on Saturday 7th of November 2009 01:23:40 AM
I am a counselor...but that doesn't mean squat in AA. I do think it is ideal to get through life without meds if you can...but it's such a touchy subject...Finding a psychiatrist and being totally honest that you want the least amount of meds to keep you sane and none of them to be addictive would seem the best bet IF you are one that has legitimate MH issues. As much as I know I am an Alcoholic...I also know "normal" people don't experience depression and anxiety the way I do. I am firmly able to distinguish clinical depression and panic attacks from feeling depressed and anxious as a mood that all people go through. To those ends, no medication will spare me the mood of depression and the experience of anxiety. I wouldn't want that to happen because having no emotions would mean I would never clue in to changes I need to make... Besides I drank largely to have no emotions. I take antidepressants to avoid a mental and physical breakdown where I can fall into being stuck to the bed, not eating, not sleeping, having panic attacks, feeling like my tear ducts are busted and crying for no reason, having no energy, not being able to have fun and feeling like even tying my shoes is the biggest chore in the world. That is what happens to me in a clinical depression. That is WAY different than "I feel sad cuz my job sucks" or whatever... For me, meds just level me out to the point where I have a more normal emotional experience. They do not take away from the daily life struggles and living life on life's terms. In fact, for me, one of life's terms is that I have depression and it runs in my family worse than alcoholism in fact. Also...I do realize that I am not the only person that experiences this in addition to alcoholism. I have encountered many many dually diagnosed people in AA and most of us function pretty well. Hence, it's not an excuse, it doesn't make me all special or unique, I don't need to feel ashamed about it....and it is what it is. Like I said before...it may change...I might not need these meds forever. Posts like Dean's give me hope in that regard....more will be revealed. I liken those that say to get off all meds to the same people who responded to my drinking by saying "Why don't you just stop?" and "If drinking causes you so many problems, just quit." ALL of us here would say those people just don't understand. Yes, positive thinking and suggestions from sober people without mood disorders are extaordinarily valuable to me, but I need medication to even get to the point where I can take suggestions the right way. This is just my experience and it is just where I am at today.
Also, I might add that I spent many years feeling like I got so screwed having to carry the burden of having a mood disorder. In many ways though it is a blessing. While I never asked to have a mood disorder, be an alcoholic, be gay...all those experiences do give me an understanding of others who struggle that I can use to be of service if I do not allow myself to constantly be a victim or feel too much of a need to fix them (a post I made on another thread). Additionally, when I hit funks in sobriety, I don't automatically think alcohol is going to make me feel better now cuz I am so much better able to write off certain moods and patterns of thinking as just me going kooky again...Hence, my tolerance for uncomfortable mood states is actually pretty high now because of having depression and now learning how to deal with it sober... Lastly, getting sober did send me into another depressive episode (it was also a "divorce" and living on my own for the first time ever....many changes at once). Thankfully, I only had to do all that stuff one time (Future break ups and other normative life challenges are inevitable...but living on my own and getting sober only had to be done 1 time and this I know). There will be challenging situations for me down the pike, but it never has to be the same as it was. I never ever ever want to go through that specific combo of problems again...so my resolve to not drink is even stronger. Not sure if this can help any of you but it is a big part of my story and who I am and how I get by one day at a time. And yeah...I know I didn't mention God in any of this...of course my spirituality is getting stronger and that is the greatest medicine of all.
Mark
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 7th of November 2009 09:45:35 AM
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Mark-- Excellent post. You said everything I was thinking-- more articulately than I could. I would love to be chemical-free, but anti-depressants allow me to function somewhat.
"There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
It's all good. My doctor has given me a plan for tapering back, my sponsor is on board with it, and I'm looking forward to getting a broader range of emotions back.
Thanks a lot, Mark. I hope you type really fast, because that was an awful lot of words on my account.
Rob....Yah, I type like 70 words a minute :) Hence, my lengthy posts often flow from me as quickly as I can think them. That can be both good and bad I suppose...lol.
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