I have a number of spiritual diseases that I believe (and have been told by Bill W.) will hinder my recovery. I am asking advice from people who were where I am at now, yet have since recovered from them. A short list:
I am a White Nationalist.
The Mexican/American seems to wave the Mexican national flag:
The higher educational institution, which seems to glorify these two minorities
No honoring of our asian community whatsoever! Aisians contribute untold number of scientific, educational and cultural improvements to our society, commit almost no crime, and conduct themselves better than any other racial group. YET NOTHING ON THE NATIONAL, EDUCATIONAL OR LOCAL LEVEL TO HONOR THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS!!!
I am deeply disturbed that my country would exalt the criminal, the violent and the debase, and utterly disregard the noble and accomplished!
And yet, these are poisonous judgments and grudges I currently hold. THey intensify when I'm riding public transportation or stranded in the poorer neighborhood. AND I KNOW THAT THESE GRUDGES ARE FOR ME A SPIRITUAL DISEASE THAT HAVE EFFECT ON MY CONTINUED SOBREITY!!!
I have tried, by force of will, to banish these feelings from me for years now but have met no success whatsoever! What must I do? Move to Germany, where there are mostly caucasians?
HELP ME SURRENDER MY WHITE NATIONALISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 12th of October 2009 10:41:38 PM
Hey Glenn, I appreciate your brutal honesty, but I had to edit your post as it contained inflammatory remarks that may offend someone, especially a newcomer. Please use generalities to explain. thanks
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 12th of October 2009 11:06:10 PM
The step does not say "eliminate" defects of character/shortcomings. It says to remove them.
My defects/shortcomings are something I ask my HP to sequester every day, so that I may NOT choose THEM as my method of operation, thought or reaction. Here's a prayer that I have added to my daily regimen of spiritual fortification and consult as often as needed.
"God, I am willing to let you guide my actions and reactions. I humbly ask that you sequester from me the spiritual flaws of Wrath, Hubris, Gluttony, Greed, and Sloth and replace them with Tolerance, Humility, Moderation, Generousity, and Industry, that I may better serve You and be a good example to those close to me and my fellows in AA."
I picked the five of the seven deadly sins that I have identified as my character flaws through steps 4 & 5. Frankly, I have a healthy amount of lust in my life and I've never been much for envy.
Glenn, work your steps as fearlessly and honestly as you can and all will be well.
I can only suspect as my experience in sobriety and in AA is short, but my instinct says that working the steps and going to meetings will help. Particularly the third, fourth and fifth. I can't remember if you said previously if you had a sponsor and were doing the steps. Tolerance is an important component of AA. Judgement and fear of judgement has been revealed to be an issue for me, although my surcumstances and judgements are about completely different things than what you expressed. I tend to judge what I consider narrow-minded people. I know that my HP will help over time. I accept that I do not know it all, I am humbled because there is only one, who does, my HP. I still have trouble with patience. I just know that this program is all about a better, peaceful life. Tolerance is central to that. I hear that by genuinely working the steps, a person is naturally transformed in so many ways. If there is some pain around judgemental issues, I can assure you that the steps can help for sure.
-- Edited by angelov8 on Tuesday 13th of October 2009 01:06:15 AM
This may sound crass and impossible to you from the place you're in, but it sounds to me like you have no acceptance. You may have accepted you are powerless over alcohol, but how about you are powerless over people, places and things?
Resentment is the number 1 offender. I'm not saying I don't judge people/circumstances and want to change things because it disturbs me, BUT after a week's worth of sleepless nights mulling it over in the 'committee meeting' in my head, I KNOW I have to do something.
Prayer is good, Pray for those you are judging, asking for them to be given everything you would want for yoursef, only twofold. Impossible? Nah. Difficult? YOU BETCHA. Essential? Absolutely if you want sobriety AND serenity.
Read the Big Book it says in there 'Acceptance is the answer to all my problems' If you don't have a copy of it, you'll find it online.
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Serenity is Wanting what you have, not having what you want
Always remember non-alcoholic beers are for NON-ALCOHOLICS
Glenn get into the traditions of the program and concepts of service and then meditate on what you read and hear from them. AA doesn't take issue with any out side concern pro or con and you can without the affiliation of AA. If you're not liking it turn it over to God or whom ever your Higher Power is and let it go. You don't have any control over it might as well end the relation ship with it also cause it's taking you out. Unconditional love, compassion, understanding and empathy help me inbetween times. In support
Glenns, it is clear from your posts about having Social Anxiety Disorder that you probably are judgmental of others because you fear them and they make you anxious. The solution would again lie in exposing yourself to different kinds of people and looking for the good in them rather than trying to see what is a threat and what is wrong with them. Minorities have been in this country for years. I work in a prison and it would be all too easy for me to make racist assumptions...Instead I choose to understand societal issues and problems and then contribute whatever I can to help. I do not believe anyone chooses to be evil (except maybe the rare serial killer). Mostly, everyone is out there just doing the best they can. It would benefit you to start believing people are generally harmless. Even if you do get harmed...at least you wouldn't have wasted so much time worrying about it.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Hey Glenn, what pinkchip said. It's common that we let our fears victimize ourselves. Our perceptions of others (because of our fears) get distorted and we make judgments that involve generalizations (like women aren't as smart as men) that are just silly. People are people and every group will have exceptional, average, below average, and your bad apples. The way to blow those inaccurate perceptions out of your head is by befriending those that you have the perceptions about. For me there were a lot of them. Women, Big tough looking guys (your biker types for example) even some ethnic groups. What I found in AA was there were all of these people in the rooms. All that I had to do was to go up to them, introduce myself, have a conversation with them and realize that they are just like me, or perhaps they were already were I wanted to be. When I came into the AA, I wasn't a very nice person, and I knew it. I prayed to my Higher Power to help me to be a nice person daily (still do). Basically I had to stop hating and start loving, beginning with myself. Because how we feel about others is really a reflection about how we feel about ourself. We make others the convienent objects of our own personal dissatisfaction because it's too painful to take a look at ourselves. You are in the right place because the 12 steps are all about taking a good look (and changing) ourselves, so that we can become that nice person that we always wanted to be. Faith is the opposite of fear. We learn to put down the fear and pick up the faith.
You said "I have tried, by force of will, to banish these feelings from me for years now but have met no success whatsoever! What must I do?"
Force of will does not work to change my feelings any more then it would work to stop my drinking.
It takes action not will and the action is the 12 steps of AA and praying for those we hold a resentment against. And I do not mean praying that God make them better I mean praying only that they have the best in life.
When I have a resentment I am always the cause.
Let me repeat that When I have a resentment I am always the cause.
I am not saying I caused the situation but I am saying that how I react to People, Places and Things is my choice. I do not care what any one does or does not do only I can decide to let it anger me and only I can decide whether to let a resentment grow.
I have tried it both ways and turning it over to my HP who I choose to call God is much easier than letting it affect me.
Resentment is a poison that we drink hoping that the other person dies.
Maybe I made a mistake joining this group ? I thougth it was an Alcoholics Anonymous site. I thought AAers helped each other with the drink problem ??
Hey ljc, Reread the answers to Glenn. Especially this one from Larry H:
"Glenn Avril G. hit it right on. You said "I have tried, by force of will, to banish these feelings from me for years now but have met no success whatsoever! What must I do?" Force of will does not work to change my feelings any more then it would work to stop my drinking. It takes action not will and the action is the 12 steps of AA and praying for those we hold a resentment against. And I do not mean praying that God make them better I mean praying only that they have the best in life.
When I have a resentment I am always the cause.
Let me repeat that When I have a resentment I am always the cause.
I am not saying I caused the situation but I am saying that how I react to People, Places and Things is my choice. I do not care what any one does or does not do only I can decide to let it anger me and only I can decide whether to let a resentment grow.
I have tried it both ways and turning it over to my HP who I choose to call God is much easier than letting it affect me.
Resentment is a poison that we drink hoping that the other person dies."
That is the best help that Glenn could ask for! This is AAers helping each other with their drinking problem. Glenn admits he has other issues but his goal is to stop drinking through AA. This is a great place to come for feedback from others about his situation that he may not find at a meeting. I pray for all of us, but at this moment, Glenn needs advice and a shoulder to lean on. AA fixes lots of other problems in life as a "fringe benefit". Becoming sober may help his SA.
Also, read Aquaman's post as well. Hell, they are all good. Can you tell me where we are failing your expectations? Tom
-- Edited by turninggrey on Wednesday 14th of October 2009 01:12:21 AM
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
No more than a few moments ago I was outside near the Free-Speech area of this campus (San Diego State University) when I overheared a conversation some woman was having on her cellphone. Most of it, I thought, was, "blah-blah-and, you know, fuckin' blah-blah." I grew very irate just sitting there, almost disgusted with her sub-standard command of the english language, not to mention breaks in her conversations that were peppered with vulgar language (causing further frustration, because it seems most students here seem to be incapable of a consistent train of thought; preventing the derailing of their train with the occasional "F"-word). Yappity-friggin' yap, she continued.
She ended it by saying, " How can someone be an effective person if they're leading a crazy life?" My immediate thought? A diagnosis of schitzophrenia, because such a comment makes no sense whatsoever! What does that mean? What does it mean that one can't be an "effective" person, as such she is leading a "crazy" life?
She mentioned something about persuing a career in nursing, which is a noble profession--if you were to be trained at a '1-800'- type college, like UEI. "What the hell is this person doing on this campus?!" I thought. "This is a campus intended to bring to the professional table engineers, economists, and scientists; not nurses!"
This is the kind of spiritually diseased thinking that characterises me, and I know it has to be rid of. But how?! I think like this all the time! That is to say, I critique people like this. How is it possible for me to tolerate people and things as they are, regardless of how out of place I may judge them to be? Could it be that I thought was overly critiqued (in a negative way) when I was a teen/early 20's? And that this thinking was erroneous? If this is the case, may I just be getting revenge on the very people that I perceived criticised myself by my negative thinking of them?
Glenns, it is clear from your posts about having Social Anxiety Disorder that you probably are judgmental of others because you fear them and they make you anxious.
I've been thinking about this lately. Perhaps I put people on a pedestal, then knock the pedestal out from under them because there is a lack of understanding of them? I have the annoying habit of thinking that most people have a (much) higher quality of life than my own. Even without getting to know them in the least... If this is the case, then I may be envious of them, and disguise this envy as bitter internalized criticism of them. Does this make sense? (Y/N)
Let me repeat that When I have a resentment I am always the cause.
I very clearly understand the therapeutic effectiveness of such affirmations. Indeed, it would remove or lessen the severity of my bitterness towards many people. But what must I do? Repeat this mantra over and over again, day in and day out, whenever I get bitter towards people who I think are out of line?
What made you consistently convinced that you are the sole cause of your resentments, even if the other guy is at fault? The BB says, "He is a sick man. I must treat him as I would any sick person..." but such thnking isn't having much staying power with me. Some, but not much.
Let me repeat that When I have a resentment I am always the cause.
I very clearly understand the therapeutic effectiveness of such affirmations. Indeed, it would remove or lessen the severity of my bitterness towards many people. But what must I do? Repeat this mantra over and over again, day in and day out, whenever I get bitter towards people who I think are out of line?
What made you consistently convinced that you are the sole cause of your resentments, even if the other guy is at fault? The BB says, "He is a sick man. I must treat him as I would any sick person..." but such thnking isn't having much staying power with me. Some, but not much.
Glenns,
Larry H is referring to the spiritual axiom in step 10 (in the book 12 steps and 12 traditions). If you find one or two 12 step meetings to attend weekly, they read and discuss 1 step per week. This is and excellent way to learn and start practicing the steps. Also a great place to find a sponsor that will help you to work the steps.
"It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us. If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also. But are there no exceptions to this rule? What about justifiable anger? If somebody cheats us, arent we entitled to be mad? Cant we be properly angry with self-righteous folk? For us of A.A. these are dangerous exceptions. We have found that justified anger ought to be left to those better qualified to handle it."
I once heard a very wise old timer (who was also the chaplain at the rehab I went to) say that we all have value and worth simply because God made us. He gave no one man, woman, or race any more value than the next. Accept it or not, we all, every living, breathing human being on the face of this earth, are valued and cherished exactly the same by our creator God. I still struggle with playing judge, but then I think we all do. What I have to remind myself is that I am not God. My alcoholism has proven that to me time after time. If I were the all powerful God (who is the only judge) then this issue with being powerless over anything wouldn't even exist. I for one, need above all else to remain a humble servant to God and man. I've been given the gift of sobriety, and most importantly, recovery. My life has turned around 180 degrees, and I owe every bit of it to God. I need to remember that he put us all on this planet to serve him and each other. True faith in God, and acceptance of persons, places, and thing out side my control are the only things that let me live the life I have today. For me it's as simple as giving it to God, and then turning it over, for real. The serenity prayer reminds me that the only thing I can change is myself, and allows me to ask for the serenity to accept everything else. Thank you for all you've posted here, it's helped me remember what I just wrote. Brian
Aloha Glenns....lottsa support from the MIP fellowship. I've had more time to look over my past experiences in recovery and remember the lessons. I know that the tools of the program work if they are used...learned and used. The slogans, the steps, prayer and practices of keeping very close to Higher Power.
I remember being taught about "taking offense" and that taking offense and taking any attitude for that matter was my responsibility, I was not a helpless slave who had to be punished by anything or anyone. When my situations were similar to yours I had the responsibility to choice...stay in it or move out of range. I have the responsibility to accept the fact of what was going on or judge it as disturbing to me (a choice) and reacting. I had the choice to use the program including prayer and slogans to help me work "what works" rather than to prove my ego and boost my pride and continue the warfare even though what or who I was judging wasn't even aware I was in the area or their world.
Getting "into" the program...."way into" the program; commiting yourself to how it works as is evidence in the sobriety, serenity and peace of spirit of the fellow member is your responsibility. No one here can take away the consequences of your choices and you are choosing your consequences. There are other consequences available.
Glenns, it is clear from your posts about having Social Anxiety Disorder that you probably are judgmental of others because you fear them and they make you anxious. ~ This for me too.
~ I've been thinking about this lately. Perhaps I put people on a pedestal, then knock the pedestal out from under them because there is a lack of understanding of them? I have the annoying habit of thinking that most people have a (much) higher quality of life than my own. Even without getting to know them in the least... If this is the case, then I may be envious of them, and disguise this envy as bitter internalized criticism of them. Does this make sense? (Y/N) ~
Welcome to MIP, Glenns. Thank you for sharing your core honesties here where we can address them with a gentle & shrewd eye. I have to be vigilant re my thoughts because ultimately if I am being judgemental, frightened or envious it is me who suffers the most in my inner-life.
I can identify with these words of yours & equate these thoughts & feelings in me as my own alcoholism, self-centred & self-righteous, attack in defense reactions. I am frightened of what I may not understand & I am frightened of exposing myself to being hurt by others in any capacity. I used to make so many assumptions about what people would be or were not suffering which resulted in a lack of sensitivity & true empathy from me.
I want to be as unconditionally loving towards all others as I possibly can today. I may not know what is best for anybody else but this kind of channelling does much to raise my energy & thinking thus relieving me of my alcoholism. You are showing willingness so I believe you will get this program with persistence. God even loves His judgemental children ;) Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
Larry H is referring to the spiritual axiom in step 10 (in the book 12 steps and 12 traditions). If you find one or two 12 step meetings to attend weekly, they read and discuss 1 step per week. This is and excellent way to learn and start practicing the steps. Also a great place to find a sponsor that will help you to work the steps.
"It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us. If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also. But are there no exceptions to this rule? What about justifiable anger? If somebody cheats us, arent we entitled to be mad? Cant we be properly angry with self-righteous folk? For us of A.A. these are dangerous exceptions. We have found that justified anger ought to be left to those better qualified to handle it."
Yes, I have read this in the 12 & 12 too, and I know that by comitting it to my heart and mind whenever an iminent resentment arises, it will help get me through. I will also leave the scene with no ill-feeling toward the person who caused the resentment (again, however, it wasn't him who caused the resentment! The bitterness and spiritual disease welled up within).
One problem with that narration, however. I wish someone addressed it to Bill after he wrote it: "We have found that justified anger ought to be left to those better qualified to handle it." Bill leaves his statement: "those better qualified to handle it" somewhat nebulous and undefined. Who's "better qualified to handle it"? Does he mean the sponsor? Psychologist? Higher Power? What exactly is "it" in the first place?
My solution to the dilemma would be this: unless dude outright stole from us or physically assaulted us, it's best to "forgive and forget." I am not a Christian, but this is what Jesus would have us do, and I have a high regard for Jesus.
Glenns, it is clear from your posts about having Social Anxiety Disorder that you probably are judgmental of others because you fear them and they make you anxious. ~ This for me too.
I can identify with these words of yours & equate these thoughts & feelings in me as my own alcoholism, self-centred & self-righteous, attack in defense reactions. I am frightened of what I may not understand & I am frightened of exposing myself to being hurt by others in any capacity. I used to make so many assumptions about what people would be or were not suffering which resulted in a lack of sensitivity & true empathy from me.
Danielle x
Realising there is scant chance of me being successful in AA without also tackling my problems (of which you also identify), I am now just beginning to talk to a therapist to see if we can't find ways for me to cope with these problems (misguided assumptions bourne out of spoiled and diseased thinking during my late adolescence/early adulthood). I'll indeed share with you progress I'm making with my counselor as progress comes up.
Well I must be very well cuz I thought it was a SURF BOARD!!!!! lol I'm surprised Tipsy never spotted that first lol Oh, my eyes! I wish I hadn't gone up even to check and have a look now. I can't see it ever in the same way again lol Sorry, Dean =S Jeesh, y'all managed to drag me into the gutter with you lol (no, I did not climb in voluntarily) lol Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation-some fact of my life -unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake.
Not one of us has the ability to control our lives or what happens in them. The only thing we can control is how we react to what happens in our lives. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. When we say the serenity prayer we are not asking for acceptence, courage or widom we are asking for serenity. Without serentiy my life is in chaos and I have no acceptance, courage or wisdom.
-- Edited by Bob K on Sunday 18th of October 2009 07:28:40 PM
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Tell me and I'll forget. Teach me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll learn.
