I work for a organisation run by bullies and it trickles down the bullies have seen me being bullied and these cowards now all know its safe to bully me.
there is a no bullying policy and what was happening to me perfectly fit the criteria, but the bullies who are in management just say it is office banter.
I have been to unions and they want me to file grievence but the last person who did that was bullied out.
today the the bully who is same level as me, who I was repremanded last week because it was unacceptable for me to shout at him but it was acceptable for him to touch me, for him to tease me constantly for him his manager to gossip about me being sexually assulted as a kid and for this individual to tease me in public about it, this was acceptable this was banter but me shouting shut up was not
I gave someone the high five the bully did not accept this and put me in an arm lock and tried to break my arm
the manager bully said high five is not acceptable in the work place and if i didnt do this then i would not have been assulted. the bully has not been spoken to about this to this day..
I could fill this computer with more but I need to get to today
Today I am unhappy with one of the bullies because I got a new audio player I was really chuffed proud and excited about this, for a brief moment the depression was gone, the bully was clearly seeing I was enjoying the music whilst on my break and as you know cowards with big ego;s could not stand to see the weak alcoholic rape vicitim happy so he had to approach me get in my space take my head phones off and say you look like a gay.
I do not know how to handle this, i am weak and no one likes me at work because I am not a bully, and they poo poo anyting that is good in my life.
sorry for rant
Rob
-- Edited by bigG on Monday 14th of September 2009 04:41:53 PM
Aloha Rob...I would have been fired already if I was you or I would have left. Bullies present me with an opportunity to relapse without drinking...I get to physically violate someone who usually got surprised by being on the floor. I also get the opportunity to inventory the situation and ask myself if I couldn't do better for myself and place myself in safer surroundings. Never never drink over it...that is the boundary not to cross. Turn it over to your HP and sponsor and some long thinking and meditation. HP will do for you what you can't do for yourself.
Hey. I noticed a few things...I am a Union rep, we are in not in good position to take sides between 2 members. If Human resourses gets involved, we have to "represent" both parties...not defend, at least in the states. If a harassment case is "claimed," we are required to investigate, the company and union. There are also issues that can be handled within the union, but you would need to consult your union constitution about the process. If your locel rep's are unwilling to address the situation, you can work your way "up the command chain." Rep's, answer to the local president, he answers to the regional rep, he andswers to the international and so forth. Unfortunately, your seniority and the seniority of the others WILL have a certain degree of influence.
The other issue I see is your willingness to discuss personal issues with your co-workers. I've worked with my company for almost 15 years. Most people I work with, don't Know I'm married with kids, let alone that I'm an alcoholic or any other issues. This is NOT your fault, but be careful of who your friends are vs. coworkers. I work to support my family, my friends are completely appart.
Focus on your healing, your sobriety, and your family. Go to work, to suppoert your family and sobriety, (not necessarily in that order.) Try to learn to work the system, who you can rely on and who can be a asset to you. It's a rough world, especially now. People can/will get you fired to get a friend or relitive a job.
Relax, take a deep breath, learn your contract, constitution, and policies. Knowledge IS power and your best option here. STAY sober, it will help you keep your wits about you. I wish I could give better advise.
Another thing to consider is leaving. Really. You are making a new life for yourself of peace. Can you downsize your life and take a job you like? If you are going to this job because it pays well but you are miserable, whats the point? Alcoholism is a weird disease and it is always looking for a way back into your day. Part of staying sober for me is how good you can feel about yourself. Its such a "noble" daily accomplishment that no one at work even knows about (unless they try and get me to drink) The inner integrity you and your HP have is being taken by the bullies at work. MDC pointed out that you can go up the chain, but then pointed out that there were still "catches" to that process and it sounds to me like you would have to kneel on bended knee to make this work. What line of work are you in? What would you like to do? Just like staying sober sets you free, it sounds like finding new work will set you more free. Obviously what they are doing is wrong. The union and management should stop it. But life is not fair, and human nature is not going to change. You only have so much time on Earth. Why waste it on these thugs? Spend your time on Earth enjoying it for your friends, family, and yourself. Those thugs will reap their "reward" later. Only you can take care of you. Good luck no matter what you do! Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
I did some years of employment counseling. and the Best way to find another job, is when you have one.
Your Post makes me think of that saying, We keep our Sobriety in FRONT of Everything, putting NOTHING in front of it.
And so true, life is very short indeed, and spending many hours a week, in that atnosphere, well what has been said, I repeat, and your Post title, Struggling with the 12 Steps at Work, sounds like something has to give here, and just like they say in Meetings, take what you want, and throw out what you dont want to keep.
You take care of YOU, and putting your Recovery first, no matter what..............
Thanks all I work in an office. Without prejudice, some of the bullies have issues themselves like one of them the one who called me a gay is openly binge drinking, as he shows on facebook but says he is on prozac and the two dont mix.
I have a baby on the way, mad bills to pay. if I downsize I lose the house, I am wanting to go into MY business.
what does my head in about a few of them
(1) managers turn a blind eye to most, I do the same and I get picked up on it and repremanded
(2) people dive in to blame me without even investigating the schenario first so it is usually ill advised.
(3) if someone is doing (2) they all go quiet to listen , if I defend myself - one of the other bullies jumps in to defend the other bully
(4) because I have got upset in the past another bully constantly critisises me then in a pretend sympathetic tone says are there there dont cry- and I cant complain to the manager as he is acting as jester for the manager as he is listening
(5) I spoke to my MANAGER about the child abuse / alcohol abuse and he spread this around like a rash
(6) I have been told I need to get someone the drinks as she is disabiled, that is fine so I get only her a drink and I get bullied by the team for not getting them all a drink, I get them all a drink and I get into trouble with the managers, I tell the managers that people are being nasty to me if I dont get them a drink and it is ignored
(7) I am told this is all my fault, it is just banter and they dont consider it bullying, despite the codes of practice describing bullying as constant unjust critisism (2) (4) - spreading malicious gossip (5) treating people with disrespect (6) and scapegoating (2) (6)
I am on anti depressants - I have mental health issues and I struggle with self esteem and shyness, I do not feel good about myself and I am kinda worried about finding a new job, what I want to do is cut my hours down and get some advice on coping
So much endless negativity to the days you spend there.
If you feel you cannot leave for the reasons you gave, then have you tried to detach, for all the BS.
For some strange reason this reminded me of a neighbor that I used to have, she was a wonderful woman, and everyday, when she let her little dog out on the Porch, whenever anyone approached her patio, this little dog would bark, but it was a little dog bark, and one day I was approaching my friends porce, the same senario started up, the little dog starting yapping at me, the neighbor who had some REAL problems, came out from his porch, about 100 ft. away and starting screaming all these unbelievable horribly hurtful thing to her about her little dog. I just watched her, she said hello to me, and then turned around completely facing that idiot, and had a soft smile on her face, and said, "God Bless You Dear" the man made a fast turn back into his house.
Dont know is this relates, but with your job, you have certain things that must be done, how about making your complete focus on that work only.
These jerks sound pretty sick to me, and all I can say to you, if you MUST stay in that atnosphere, Focus on Work, like work as a fevor pitch, and then with your Higher Power helping you with this......DETACH.....DETACH.....DETACH!! Your Recovery has to come first. Always.
And Rob we are just powerless over people, places and things. The only person that you need to be accountable to is YOU!!
Feeling for you in this negative mess of your co-workers.
One thing I learned a while back in studying Meditations, that there is a way to actively meditate, while doing things, being around other people. and even working.
Stay in touch with us and let us know how things are going and............... if you can get to someone that you can sit down with and talk to, that will be on YOUR SIDE.
Toni
-- Edited by Just Toni on Tuesday 15th of September 2009 05:49:07 PM
You need to focus on you and your sobriety. What anyone else thinks about you doesn't really matter, right? Your job, house, bills will HAVE to take back seat. If you are an alcoholic, (and I ASSUME you are, you're here) you will loose ALL if you don't get your sobriety.
On the legal/union/management side. If you are in the states, and you told your manager about a medical condition, (alcoholism) and he spoke of it without your permission, he in violation of the law. Private medical info, can NOT be discussed without your permission. If you have a good union rep. he should, not so gently "remind" the human resourses director of this and have your manager atleast stop, if not be repromanded.
All this said, your biggest issue is NOT your job, but your sobriety. Stay sober, and keep in touch.
Welcome to MIP, Rob. It is hard I know. If I were in your situation (& I have been bullied in the past) I would practice letting go with love. Detaching as Toni said. This isn't easy, I know that too but your recovery is the most important thing here. These people sound spiritually sick to me & who knows how that must feel for them when the door's closed & they're left to their own conscience. Goodness knows how they must be feeling if this is how they have to behave in life. Look after your own side of the street & keep it between yourself & God who loves you more than you can humanly comprehend.
When we are confronted with sickness in others we love ourselves & extend this towards them with love, forgiveness & tolerance. It is recommended that we pray for others & God's will for them. This can ease the hurt & pressure within us too. The other thing you can do for yourself is to be mindful of your boundaries & sensitive not to put yourself in any position to be hurt. There may be many tamptations to respond in such a way to this behaviour by trying to subtly influence or change them & possibly then giving them further fuel for the fire.
I feel for your situation & if you're going to stay, look after you. Don't let someone else's attitudes & behaviours tap into your old fears, hurts & resentment in regards to what you've experienced before. Stay close with your sponsor. Share every day & you will get through this whatever the outcome. God will help you. Keep asking. Congrats in getting to grips with the program come what may. It is good to be sober & so worth it. Recovery love, Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
Rob, I am on antidepressants, struggle with self-esteem issues...etc. I have a definite history of people pleasing and wanting approval to the 10000000000th degree. At about 2 months sobriety, it hit me so hard that I hated myself that I did have to start therapy. I was reluctant to do this because I am a therapist and figured I should be able to help myself and was already going to AA. Well, it was humbling, but sometimes we all need help and lots of it. You have a lot on your shoulders already. For the sake of your serenity, I believe you need to learn to not care so much about these people at work. If you deeply know the criticisms you are receiving are unfounded and based on others' weaknesses, you will eventually just either stop responding, or respond in a way that make them scapegoating you unrewarding. Times are tough, the other people at work have the same pressures you do and they unleash some of their issues by displacing the tension, nastiness, and stress onto you. Trying to aggressively stop it will be like the kid that tells the teacher everytime they get called a name...yeah it's wrong...but that kid winds up getting beat up after school every day. The best thing to do for your coping is to remind yourself daily that you are strong, that you are good enough, that you are nobody's victim anymore now that you are actively taking steps to battle your disease and work a program, and that nothing they say can hurt you as long as you get that paycheck every Friday (or whenever). This is hard to do after what has been lifelong patterns of feeling and acting a certain way (for both of us), but just like stopping drinking, you can stop being a victim...even when people really are victimizing you. Not all the people you work with can be evil even though they are doing some mean things. Try hard to find the good in some of these people and point that out to them through compliments...not to suck up but for your own sanity so that you don't feel you are working with a bunch of assholes all the time. Doing this will also reinforce their positive traits and their behavior will eventually change to you. If someone calls me a name or treats me bad and I respond with either indifference or actual kindness...it kills the mean drive within them. So when the guy comes up to you and calls you gay for listening to your music...a response could be "Yeah but it makes me happy. Hope you're having a good day too." That type of response is like daggers to people who bully. Just imagine your recovery, and AA as your suit of armor to face the world. Not everyone works a program like we do and that armor is what we need to stay sober and strong. You stopped drinking to be a better and stronger person. You have some stuff to work through but you are facing it sober. You WILL stop caring about this stuff soon because it only drags you down. When you stop caring, it will go away (in this instance I believe). Nobody can hurt me by calling me gay at work.....um, cuz I am gay and that's cool. Nobody can hurt me by calling me an asshole, cuz sometimes I can be an asshole...whatever. Nobody can hurt me by saying I should have done something different, when I deeply know I did the best I could. You get what I am saying. I feel for you and identify. Just remember...you are growing stronger day by day in every way from remaining sober. Don't drink and time and God will give you the coping mechanisms you need eventually. It will happen.
Love,
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I think what annoys me at this place is that everyone acts like my boss but without the rules my bosses have so Lets take the other day for example, I had worked 134 accounts and joe bloggs had worked 24 so she said to me in a blunt way, Rob why have you worked so many accounts - now i could have said the truth which was I dont spend my day getting into other peoples business and talking about how rich my daddy is- therefor I have time to do my work, but instead I said something like - oh my manager has told me to call the customer if they dont answer then just go onto the next account. because that is what was said, she then challenges that and says I am not doing my job properly, at this stage I want to say something like (a) who are you to question me? but then the manager who is sitting next to her pretending not to listen then jumps in to protect the bully, or (b) tell her to raise any grievence with my work to the manager, but they WANT me to get upset as they know they could practically do anything and get away with it hence someone nearly breaking my arm and not getting told off but because I gave them the high 5 this is completly wrong for the office, my old manager then gives me the high 5 next day! in front of newmanager and this is ok of course
My sponsor told me resentments are like pissing on yourself basically. The other person doesn't care, you feel all yucky afterwards, and you set yourself up for other people to laugh at you. It sounds like you have a new or old resentment every day at work. This is not good for your sobriety as you might have been told. In your example of someone else pointing out your high call volume, you could just take it as a compliment. She is likely insecure, knowing she spends a lot of time chatting it up and just wanted to know how you stay so focused all day on your work. The response could have been "Yeah...been taking a lot of calls today" and leave it at that. Or it could have been the chance to actually turn it around into kindness on your part with "I've just been doing check in calls (call backs like you said), sounds like you've really been handling some tough ones today that took a lot of time. Those days are rough. Good job." You don't have to be so quick to perceive negative intentions even if they are there. Alcoholism is primarily a disease in our thinking and it is our thinking that needs to change. That happy, joyous, and free feeling doesn't come from just putting the bottle down. In fact, what comes right after that in my experience is an extremely difficult period of learning and periodically going apeshit while you discover how to cope with situations you used to drink over to get yourself to the point of not caring so much. So, just for today, try imagining some of the statements made to you as compliments or indifferent statements. You do not have to get so wound up by what people say. Also, the judgments that you are making on others seem to be contributing to the negative thinking. It might help if you catch yourself when you are labeling someone as a snotty rich girl and try to remember that living that life isn't so great either and if it was, she wouldn't have to go around talking about $ so much. Good chance she might feel insecure because money has been given to her and she doesn't know or believe she can work as hard or efficiently as you. Living in her insecurities wouldn't be fun for you either. At least you know how to work and don't question it. So...If you look at it that way, the resentment lessens, you respond differently, you don't feel victimized or like she or anyone else has that much power over you. Managers will be less quick to jump in because your responses wont be so biting and caustic. Things will change, but it will take work on your part. You can stay in this muck of working in a hellhole, or change the way you view it and the way you act there. Those are your 2 choices as I see it and the 2nd one is probably the best.
I will add, I fall prey to the same negative thinking frequently. In my first 2 months of sobriety, I had one incident where I was so annoyed with 2 "rich girls" at work getting special treatment (because I viewed our boss as identifying with them as she comes from the same background, they are young and pretty, and she wants to be like them...actually 1 of them turns out is not rich). I tore in the main office and called them both princesses and stated I was a better therapist than both of them, that I had more experience, and that what I thought they were criticizing me over (not having as good boundaries with clients as them) was really just the fact that I actually build rapport with my clients and all theirs hate them and can't identify with them because we work in a jail with largely underpriveleged kids and they were both snotty and useless to these kids. I laid it in deep and made one of them cry. That is when I realized I had only just succeeded in being a crappy person and what did it really matter if my boss liked them better? We all get paid. I went into apology mode pretty quick after the one started crying. The other one (the one who really is rich) just said "I don't have to take this" and walked away. I don't want to be either of those girls (actually I stopped refering to them as that in my head because they are women even though they are 25ish) because they now have pressure to suck up to the boss in a way I don't want to. The boss thinking they are perfect makes the job sometimes harder for them because they have an impossible standard to live up to. The boss also never sees kids and acts like they all have cooties and the boss is also crying and miserable all the time so she tries to reach out to her subordinates through favoritism. I don't want to be like her either. I later talked to the one who was crying and realized that some of her perfectionist tendencies come from being the oldest child in a family with a drunk father....a drunk father virtually on his deathbed now on top of it. She took care of everything, had to be perfect, had to be an overachiever, and she has to live in that mindset. Other people at work still resent her for "special treatment" but I do not because I took the time to really consider where she is coming from and it's not always peachy and fun for her. The other one is now hating work becaue the boss just gave her like 6 new clients at work at once which is impossible to do all the initial paperwork for and this interferes with her flying home on weekends to see her family and it just sucks for her in general. She's not evil either and actually both of them are just fine therapists, better than me in some ways, not as good maybe in others...it doesn't really matter. Just an example here for viewing people differently for your own sanity. I guess I'm still judging people, but not with the nasty, resentful overtones I used to. Everyone has their own mess and it's not all about people picking on you cuz they are evil. I drank because the world I was living in was shitty to me. I am much more connected to the fact that my own thinking was what made it so shitty and what made me want to drink at it and over it. Prayers are with you and I hope you can apply the program to work as best you can. Love,
Mark
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id like to say I didnt explode over a trifle today!!
the girl who I mentioned had the need to make me wrong without hearing the whole conversation and I thought does it really matter? once these 8 hours are up is she going to want to go out of her way to be with me and vice versa and the answer was no.
she said I had not done my accounting right, but then I had the work quality checked based on her out cry and my sums was right and she had just fancied it wrong.
now I dont want to get into being above this person as im sure she is the perfect child of god, but I do need to understand her and why she will tip toe around those she fears and bank in with me to polish that diminished ego by open criticism justified or not?
What I struggle with is things that take me back to being a child, and I feel like telling her to mind her own business as I was not talking to her, but I cant as its not acceptable to react to her in this manner so I just smiled and nodded. probably did the right thing even though as usual she was talking rubbish
so are you saying that even if people are trying to put me down that I should see it a different way? so even if people are bluntly being rude I should not rise to the bait?
"You don't have to be so quick to perceive negative intentions even if they are there"
thx
-- Edited by bigG on Thursday 17th of September 2009 06:27:16 PM
-- Edited by bigG on Thursday 17th of September 2009 06:32:45 PM
-- Edited by bigG on Thursday 17th of September 2009 06:33:47 PM
Sounds like you might work for the same bunch of b*sterds that I do. Or at least for and with their first cousins.
It's been said before it bears saying again. Sobriety first everything else next. I hear you when you say you need the money but if this threatens your physical and/or emotional sobriety, then you are at risk of losing the lot my friend.
At work be guarded about who you tell what to. Start a diary and note down all the stuff that's happening to you. If you don't have chronological notes then you are screwed. Remember that you could leave and find another job, going down the constructive dismissal route later. But you need help advice and guidance and need to decide if the stress and trauma of preparing such a case is worth teh risk to your sobriety. Talk to your sponsor, union man, HR and Citizens Advice Bureau.
As for the high five - no disrespect intended to my american friends here, but dammit, you're in Nottingham, England, which is honorary North - just setlle for a restrained handshake will you?
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Sounds like you might work for the same bunch of b*sterds that I do. Or at least for and with their first cousins.
It's been said before it bears saying again. Sobriety first everything else next. I hear you when you say you need the money but if this threatens your physical and/or emotional sobriety, then you are at risk of losing the lot my friend.
At work be guarded about who you tell what to. Start a diary and note down all the stuff that's happening to you. If you don't have chronological notes then you are screwed. Remember that you could leave and find another job, going down the constructive dismissal route later. But you need help advice and guidance and need to decide if the stress and trauma of preparing such a case is worth teh risk to your sobriety. Talk to your sponsor, union man, HR and Citizens Advice Bureau.
As for the high five - no disrespect intended to my american friends here, but dammit, you're in Nottingham, England, which is honorary North - just setlle for a restrained handshake will you?
BigG - Yeah...basically what I am saying is either respond in kindness or ignore nastiness even when it is there. Responding to it will only bring you down. If it's not seriously actively hurting you, you don't need to respond to it in your actions or in your thoughts. I'm not saying be a doormat. It's just one of those things about not being able to change others. The kindness or indifference is like a spray that makes haters go away is how I view it. Granted, as you can see from my own above thread, I still struggle with these issues. I posted here 2 weeks ago about being all resentful at 2 women at work who were talking bad about me and I still cop resentments at my boss all the time even though I work through them faster now (Like 2 days of feeling wounded and angry instead of living in it constantly like before). I guess an important thing I failed to mention is you are not alone here, you are not wrong, and your take on things is not necessarily faulty thinking as much as it might just be unhelpful to you. Someone grabbing your arm and twisting it is obviously something you have to respond to and address. The response it sounded like you got with that was wrong and that does make me question your work environment as toxic (which indeed it probably is...so is mine). Also, I said I don't care if people call me gay at work, but if someone called me something like "a stupid faggot" or something, I would march to human resources immediately. So, there's really no definitive "answer" in what I say...the answer lies in the middle and striking balance between being accepting and assertive like in most of our endeavors. Anyhow, keep posting and you are no different than me or anyone else here. In support and caring,
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Rob, Let go and Let God. Forgive the wankers so that you don't poison yourself with resentment. Look for a different job, before the prats jeopordize your sobriety. If you're the workplace punk, you probably don't have a prayer for advancement anyway. Save the sharing for safe environments, like AA or a therapist.
Until you find a new job, amuse yourself with classic workplace amusements like... Flatulating on the mouthpiece of your boss' phone. Take the magnet out of the phone's mouth piece so he can hear the caller, but the caller can't hear him. Pop out and switch the "Q" key with the "D" key on someone's keyboard, so that all their letters and e-mails start with "Qear". Take the ball out of someone's mouse. Burn some popcorn in the breakroom microwave 10 minutes before lunch. Get a book on home-made improvised explosives and leave it on your desk. Find someone big and scary-looking to come pick you up for lunch when people are watching, even if you have to pay him. Sarcasm. Thick, rich, gooey globs of pugnacious sarcasm.
There, now that you've had a bit of a laugh...look for another job.
Hi there BigG hope you are still visiting this thread. I'm new here although a while in AA. Anyway just caught you're thread. Sorry about what you're going through. I'm posting because I went through something similar a few years ago. It was a different type of bullying but still bullying. In my case the bullying was being ostracised, ignored and whispered about.
Well done for posting and talking about it. That helped me, I thought it was all my fault at first and that I deserved it. But I read up on it through websites and bought a small easy to read book about bullying. Nothing to heavy.
There seemed to be some suggestions about that worked for me. I kept a journal about each incident this helps you recognise the patterns of bullying so you're mind is clearer. Bullying is such a confusing issue. Also keep smiling (I know how hard that is) but don't let them see they are getting to you. You can close the door and shout and scream or cry when you get home. But as far as they're concerned your just fine thanks!. Don't make any unneccessary conversation with them as well. This can be hard if you're like me and like to be friendly and chatty, but keep practicising. And of course pray and have faith. Gather support as much as you can from understanding friends and family.
I don't think the idea is to stop the bullying some things are just too big for us, but at least you keep your dignity and self respect. I started looking for another job as well, fortunatley in my case the bullying stopped eventually. I moved on a year later anyway to a better job And I made a good friend of the colleague who was also being bullied - so it all worked out for the best. I hope it does for you! God Bless.
