Hi Crystal,

If I were you, I'd strongly consider postponing any wedding plans until your fiance obtains a year of uninterrupted sobriety. What I really want to say is Run Forest Run! Alcoholism is a deadly serious problem that can ruin your life, future and the future for your kids and family. Why would you want to invite that into your life? Ask yourself why you are so attracted to an Alcoholic? (Usually it's because of a history of alcoholism in your own family (father or mother)). This is not some project of a human that if you can straighten out a couple things, you'll have a 1st class husband. You can't fix this, and the chances are 1 in 20 that he can IF he really wants to, and "Is Willing To Go To Any Lengths For His Recovery".  Him Not wanting to go to any AA meetings is in direct opposition to the above statement. I'll copy Chapter 5 of the Big Book below "How it works". Read that and you'll see that there is a lot more involved with recovery from Alcoholism, then just going to meetings. But going to meetings (getting an AA sponsor to help you work the steps) and learning how to live life without alcohol takes a lot of work. And he's not even willing to go to meetings, imo, he doesn't stand much of a chance of making it.  And that's going leave you pretty disappointed. Why don't you find someone healthier to play with? Being "needed" is not a healthy aspect of any relationship. A healthy relationship is when two healthy independent mature self sufficient adults decide to spend some of the spare time together. It's not about one leaning on the other or 2 halfs getting together to make a  whole.

First off, only about 5% of those that try to get sober succeed. It's recommended that the newly recovering stay out of relationships for the first year so that they can concentrate on themselves without distractions or enabling. This is a mental illness connected to a physical addiction that is obsessive /  compulsive. Alcoholism is a disease that is classified as a "primary illness" by the AMA. This disease is the only disease that tells the afflicted that they don't have a disease. You're fiance's reluctance to want to go to AA meetings is a strong indication of denial and his inacceptance of his alcoholism. This is a disease that you can't beat on your own.

"Chapter 5 - How It Works

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it then you are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these we balked. thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

Remember that we deal with alcohol, cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power that One is God. May you find Him now!

Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. we asked His protection and care with complete abandon.

Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him , praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.

Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventure before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c) That God could and would if He were sought.

Being convinced, we were at Step Three, which is that we decided to turn our will and our life over to God as we understood Him. Just what do we mean by that, and just what do we do?

The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Most people try to live by self-propul sion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wish ed, the show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-s acrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.

What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatchin g all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?

Our actor is self-centered, ego-centric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired business man who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the sins of the t wentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be Utopia if the rest of the world would only behave; the outlaw safe cracker who thinks society has wronged him; and the alcoholic who has lost all and is locked up. Whatever our protest ations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self-pity?

Selfishness, self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly wit hout provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.

So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishnes s. We must, or it kill us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have lik ed to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.

This is the how and the why of it. First of all, we had to quit playing God. It didn't work. Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we a re His children. Most Good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom.

When we sincerely took such a position, all sorts of remarkable things followed. We had a new Employer. Being all powerful, He provided what we needed, if we kept close to Him and performed His work well. Established on such a footing we became less a nd less interested in ourselves, our own little plans and designs. More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life. As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter. We were reborn.

We were now at Step Three. Many of us said to our Maker, as we understood Him: "God, I offer myself to Thee to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my diffi culties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!" We thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready; that we could at last abandon ourselves utt erly to Him.

We found it very desirable to take this spiritual step with an understanding person, such as our wife, best friend, or spiritual adviser. But it is better to meet God alone than with one who might misunderstand. The wording was, of course, quite opti onal so long as we expressed the idea, voicing it without reservation. This was only a beginning, though if honestly and humbly made, an effect, sometimes a very great one, was felt at once.

Next we launched out on a course of vigorous action, the first step of which is a personal housecleaning, which many of us had never attempted. Though our decision was vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once follo wed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.

Therefore, we started upon a personal inventory. This was Step Four. A business which takes no regular inventory usually goes broke. Taking commercial inventory is a fact-finding and a fact-facing process. It is an effort to discover the trut h about the stock-in-trade. One object is to disclose damaged or unsalable goods, to get rid of them promptly and without regret. If the owner of the business is to be successful, he cannot fool himself about values.

We did exactly the same thing with our lives. We took stock honestly. First, we searched out the flaws in our make-up which caused our failure. Being convinced that self, manifested in various ways, was what had defeated us, we considered its common manifestations.

Resentment is the "number one" offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick. When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically. In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed people, institutions or principle with who we were angry. We asked ourselves why we were angry. In most cases it was found that our self- esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships, (including sex) were hurt or threatened. So we were sore. We were "burned up." On our grudge list we set opposite each name our injuries. Was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambi tions, our personal, or sex relations, which had been interfered with? We were usually as definite as this example:

I'm resentful at: The Cause Affects my:
Mr. Brown His attention to my wife.

Told my wife of my mistress.

Brown may get my job at the office.
Sex relations
Self-esteem (fear)
Sex-relations
Self-esteem (fear)
Security
Self-Esteem (fear)
Mrs Jones She's a nut - she snubbed me.
She committed her husband for drinking.
He's my friend.
She's a gossip. Personal relationship.
Self-esteem (fear)
My employer Unreasonable - Unjust - Overbearing -
Threatens to fire me for drinking and padding my expense account. Self-esteem (fear)
Security.
My wife Misunderstands and nags.
Likes Brown.
Wants house put in her name. Pride - personal sex relations - Security (fear)

We went back through our lives. Nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty. When we were finished we considered it carefully. The first thing apparent was that this world and its people were often quite wrong. To conclude that others were wrong w as as far as most of us ever got. The usual outcome was that people continued to wrong us and we stayed sore. Sometimes it was remorse and then we were sore at ourselves. But the more we fought and tried to have our own way, the worse matters got. As i n war, the victor only seemed to win. Our moments of triumph were short-lived.

It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these, do we squander the hours that might have been worth while. But with the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenanc e and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of resentment is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. For when harboring such feeling we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the Spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns and we drink again. And with us, to drink is to die.

If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us. They may be the dubious luxury of normal men, but for alcoholics these things are poison.

We turned back to the list, for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look for it from an entirely different angle. We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state, the wrong-doing of others, fancied or real, had power to actually kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol.

This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tole rance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done."

We avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least God will show us how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one.

Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tr ied to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.

Notice that the word "fear" is bracketed alongside the difficulties with Mr. Brown, Mrs. Jones, the employer, and the wife. This short word somehow touches about every aspect of our lives. It was an evil and corroding thread; the fabric of our existe nce was shot through with it. It set in motion trains of circumstances which brought us misfortune we felt we didn't deserve. But did not we, ourselves, set the ball rolling? Sometimes we think fear ought to be classed with stealing. It seems to cause more trouble.

We reviewed our fears thoroughly. We put them on paper, even though we had no resentment in connection with them. We asked ourselves why we had them. Wasn't it because self-reliance failed us? Self-reliance was good as far as it went, but it didn't go far enough. Some of us once had great self-confidence, but it didn't fully solve the fear problem, or any other. When it made us cocky, it was worse.

Perhaps there is a better way, we think so. For we are now on a different basis of trusting and relying upon God. We trust infinite God rather than our finite selves. We are in the world to play the role He assigns. Just to the extent that we do a s we think He would have us, and humbly rely on Him, does He enable us to match calamity with serenity .

We never apologize to anyone for depending upon our Creator. We can laugh at those who think spirituality the way of weakness. Paradoxically, it is the way of strength. The verdict of the ages is that faith means courage. All men of faith have cour age. They trust their God. We never apologize for God. Instead we let Him demonstrate, through us, what He can do. We ask Him to remove our fear and direct our attention to what He would have us be. At once, we commence to outgrow fear.

Now about sex. Many of needed an overhauling there. But above all, we tried to be sensible on this question. It's so easy to get way off the track. Here we find human opinions running to extremes absurd extremes, perhaps. One set of voices cry th at sex is a lust of our lower nature, a base necessity of procreation.

Then we have the voices who cry for sex and more sex; who bewail the institution of marriage; who think that most of the troubles of the race are traceable to sex causes. They think we do not have enough of it, or that it isn't the right kind. They s ee its significance everywhere. One school would allow man no flavor for his fare and the other would have us all on a straight pepper diet. We want to stay out of this controversy. We do not want to be the arbiter of anyone's sex conduct. We all have sex problems. We'd hardly be human if we didn't. What can we do about them?

We reviewed our own conduct over the years past. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, or inconsiderate? Whom had we hurt? Did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy, suspicion or bitterness? Where were we at fault, what should we have done instead? We got this all down on paper and looked at it.

In this way we tried to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future sex life. We subjected each relation to this test -was it selfish or not? We asked God to mold our ideals and help us to live up to them. We remembered always that our sex powers we re God-given and therefore good, neither to be used lightly or selfishly nor to be despised and loathed.

Whatever our ideal turns out to be, we must be willing to grow toward it. We must be willing to make amends where we have done harm, provided that we do not bring about still more harm in so doing. In other words, we treat sex as we would any other p roblem. In meditation, we ask God what we should do about each specific matter. The right answer will come, if we want it.

God alone can judge our sex situation. Counsel with persons is often desirable, but we let God be the final judge. We realize that some people are as fanatical about sex as others are loose. We avoid hysterical thinking or advice.

Suppose we fall short of the chosen ideal and stumble? Does this mean we are going to get drunk. Some people tell us so. But this is only a half-truth. It depends on us and on our motives. If we are sorry for what we have done, and have the honest desire to let God take us to better things, we believe we will be forgiven and will have learned our lesson. If we are not sorry, and our conduct continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing. These are facts out of our ex perience.

To sum up about sex: We earnestly pray for the right ideal, for guidance in each questionable situation, for sanity, and for the strength to do the right thing. If sex is very troublesome, we throw ourselves the harder into helping others. We think o f their needs and work for them. This takes us out of ourselves. It quiets the imperious urge, when to yield would mean heartache.

If we have been thorough about our personal inventory, we have written down a lot. We have listed and analyzed our resentments. We have begun to comprehend their futility and their fatality. We have commenced to see their terrible destructiveness. We have begun to learn tolerance, patience and good will toward all men, even our enemies, for we look on them as sick people. We have listed the people we have hurt by our conduct, and are willing to straighten out the past if we can.

In this book you read again and again that faith did for us what we could not do for ourselves. We hope you are convinced now that God can remove whatever self-will has blocked you off from Him. If you have already made a decision, and an inventory of your grosser handicaps, you have made a good beginning. That being so you have swallowed and digested some big chunks of truth about yourself."

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Saturday 25th of July 2009 07:45:59 AM

Crystal,

First let me say that it pleases me to see people getting into rehab. That can be the start of a better life. One hopes that he is exposed to AA there, as any rehab center worth it's salt will start an alcoholic on the way to facing the truth about himself (or herself), but it will also teach and show the person how AA can keep a person on track after he leaves the "safety zone" of rehab.

Of course, rehab with a focus on AA is not a guarantee in itself either. The sole indicator for continuous, long-term sobriety which will lead to successful relationships is the DESIRE to do anything necessary to remain abstinent, which 99.9999999% of the time means getting together with a group of sober folk on a regular basis, who will teach the alcoholic how to handle life's ups and downs without a drink. We alcoholics, once we put the plug in the jug, have basically lost our way to "cope" with everyday life (alcohol). The natural "solution" for any alcoholic NOT in an extended program of recovery is to pick up a bottle or a beer again to "chill out" or "get one's thoughts together" (excuses).

I would not be saying all of this, if it were not true for me, all who go to my meetings every week, and every other alcoholic out there. If you spend some time in Al Anon, you are certain to get the same information, as well as at any AA meeting. Even a psychiatrist or decent therapist/counselor will tell you the same. The only person who can really "reach" an alcoholic during tough times is another sober alcoholic.

I wish you MAJOR good luck, and that you are willing to get some help for yourself (as my entire family did), you will at the very least be taking GOOD care of yourself, and learn to live in such a way that shows your alcoholic that you mean BUSINESS, and that you will NOT enable him, and that you love him, but are not going to go down with a sinking ship. It is harder to do than it looks, and Al Anon will most definitely provide you with the tools to do so.

Tough love is the very best thing you could do for this man that you love, starting right now. You don't have to "abandon" him, you just need to take care of YOU first and foremost, and learn all you can from those with experience in loving and alcoholic.

Take care and please keep us posted!! Wishing and hoping for GOOD lasting sobriety for your fiance'!! There is nothing in the world as satisfying as when an alcoholic's life is transformed into something meaningful, by freely jumping in the AA lifeboat with both feet.

((((hugs))))
Joni

As someone just out of rehab (been out 3 weeks today) I can understand where you both are at. You never did mention whether it's a 30, 60, or 90 day program. I can only hope that it's a 90 day, because the benifit of that length of time far outweighs the 30 and 60 day programs. I remember riding the "pink cloud", and I also remember very vividly falling of of it. That happend right around 30-35 days of sobriety, and if I had not been in rehab, I surely would have turned back to the bottle. I never gave it a thought as to whether or not I was going to have to attend AA meetings, that was a givin for me. If I had cancer, I would continue my treatment the rest of my life. My AA fellowship is my treatment. As was posted before, sometimes only an alcoholic can help out another alcoholic. If he's in a 90 day program, have faith that the counselors there will continue to work with him and help him understand his disease a little more. It sounds to me like he still hasn't come to believe that his life is unmanagable. Until I did that, I was stuck in my old thinking and actions. I knew there were parts of my life that I couldn't manage, but surely there were still some that I could manage (now there's some "stinkin' thinkin'" for you). Once I surrendered ALL of my will and life to my HP, I finally understood what this program was all about. That's the point when the spirituality really hit home with me, and I found myself at such peace knowing that I no longer had to be in control. All I really had to do was simply not drink, and I knew what I had to do to follow through with that choice. It's a sad fact of life that we can't want sobriety for others, but it's true. My wife, kids, and family wanted it for me for many years, and even after 4 or 5 attempts in AA, and other attempts at rehab it never happend until I wanted it for me. I agree that there should be no major decisions or plans (including getting married) for at least one year of sobriety. I know I'm still going through many ups and downs, and shudder at the thought of having to make any life changing decisions right now. There's simply no way of knowing if I'm making the right choice for the right reasons at this point in my sobriety. I give thanks to God for not having put me in any situations that would cause me to have to make those types of decisions.

I wish the both of you nothing but the best and will say a little prayer for you. What helped me the most was believing that God truely does for me what I can't do for myself. Good luck, and God bless.

Brian

I worried that the program was religious and they would "convert" me.  It's not religious, it is spiritual.  There is a big difference between those two things.  Being spiritually healthy is awesome.  Nobody gets to choose what you worship in AA and nobody else gets to define your God.  Someone here put it best when they said through AA, they found the most awesome church, but the only problem was he was the only member.  Being raised in a very liberal church, Unitarian Universalist, I was very wary of being brainwashed.  Anyhow, I failed to realize all those years that I was pushing AA away that I really needed a brainwashing anyhow, but also that AA couldn't magically make me think any specific way that I wasn't ready to embrace anyhow.  At first, my higher power was the rooms and my sponsor, then it turned into a belief in the community of AA and the wonderful way I see people helping each other there, now it encompasses those 2 things, but I also sort of believe in a God that's there for me that I can pray to and he listens and cares.  Faith doesn't happen over night.  I'm not sure where mine is headed other than that I want it to grow stronger because it makes me feel at peace (and feeling not at peace is like one if not THE chief cause of wanting to drink).  Crystal, there is an Alanon board here on this site if you want to check that out, but of course would appreciate you coming back and sharing what's going on here if you choose to.  It's a VERY difficult path to walk in terms of being supportive but not enabling.  We need the support, but the enabling kills us.  Again, good luck.

Mark

To all,
I just wanted to say thank you for the post and replies.  Your experience, strength and hope are inspiring.  This is what we are all about, one alcoholic staying sober and helping out another to do the same.  Awesome!!!!