A couple of reflections on the "Our Father" prayer

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

A couple of reflections on the "Our Father" prayer

toni baloney · Senior Member

Hi Glenn,

I go to one meeting where they must have done a group conscience, but anyway they always end it with the Serenity Prayer. Funny, cause when they start to speak as a Group at the end with the Prayer, never does it fail that they start out with..."God grant us......and I always start with the Our Father, but I do catch up.

A while back someone gave me a wonderful little gift, "The Prayers of the Cosmos,
the Aramaic Translation of the Lord's Prayer." by Emmit Fox, and another man by the name of Klotz.

Almost every single pre-conceived notion I had was written so differently and honestly, I liked the Aramaic translation more. Went looking for it for a while, it is a very lillte book, well thats my excuse, could not find it, but when I do, I will send you some of those Aramaic translations.

As far as the word "evil" that one surprised me the most it was about our own stuff, and not even collectively, but our own inner spoiled fruits that did not serve us, and and perhaps caused errors in others lives.

I have noticed to, that when reciting this Prayer, many times there are a few and sometimes more than a few, that do hold hands in the circle, but do not speak.

Bothers no one, that is for sure, we are there for our Own recovery. keeps it so simple.

Hope today has been a good day for you.

Toni

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Thank you for your share, Glenn. That was beautiful & I really identify with it. Your interpretation has woken a few things up in me. I can see evil or spiritual sickness is rife inside me & I've had very little humility for years. Ever since I was a child even. I can't share about it right now. Maybe I will in the next few days. For now, I'm glad to be able to relate to what you've said. Just how powerful is that prayer for forgiveness against trespasses every which way! That is an amazing part & so impactful ;) Thanks for helping me to grow with you in your journey too. Godbless, Danielle x

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha Glenn...That's good meditation, thanks!! I have done that meditation
myself and still do. What I arrived at long ago is that all prayer directed at
HP is conversation. It has become personal for me and I have many events
that have told me that God listens and responds. I am grateful you posted
this today. I needed it.

Mahalo (((((hugs))))) smile

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

Interesting.

I say the 3d step prayer every morning and he 11th step prayer at times, to me the Lords prayer is just something we hold hands and say to end the meeting.

The only thingI ask for in my prayers is a Knowledge of Gods will and the power to carry it out, and to help me stay sober of course and thank him at night

angelov8 · MIP Old Timer

toni baloney wrote:

Hi Glenn,

I go to one meeting where they must have done a group conscience, but anyway they always end it with the Serenity Prayer. Funny, cause when they start to speak as a Group at the end with the Prayer, never does it fail that they start out with..."God grant us......and I always start with the Our Father, but I do catch up.

A while back someone gave me a wonderful little gift, "The Prayers of the Cosmos,
the Aramaic Translation of the Lord's Prayer." by Emmit Fox, and another man by the name of Klotz.

Almost every single pre-conceived notion I had was written so differently and honestly, I liked the Aramaic translation more. Went looking for it for a while, it is a very lillte book, well thats my excuse, could not find it, but when I do, I will send you some of those Aramaic translations.

As far as the word "evil" that one surprised me the most it was about our own stuff, and not even collectively, but our own inner spoiled fruits that did not serve us, and and perhaps caused errors in others lives.

I have noticed to, that when reciting this Prayer, many times there are a few and sometimes more than a few, that do hold hands in the circle, but do not speak.

Bothers no one, that is for sure, we are there for our Own recovery. keeps it so simple.

Hope today has been a good day for you.

Toni

Hi, What does this mean specifically, "they must have done a group conscience"? At the different meetings I go to, we always end with the Serenity prayer. I'm also curious what the Aramic translation means, however, I suppose I could get off here and go google it. Nice to see everyone, see you around, -Angelov8

-- Edited by angelov8 on Friday 26th of June 2009 12:27:57 AM

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

toni baloney wrote:

Hi Glenn,

I go to one meeting where they must have done a group conscience, but anyway they always end it with the Serenity Prayer. Funny, cause when they start to speak as a Group at the end with the Prayer, never does it fail that they start out with..."God grant us......and I always start with the Our Father, but I do catch up.

Most of the meetings I go to end with the Serenity Prayer. It's interesting, though, that you used the words "God, grant us" as opposed to "God, grant me". In our meetings we say "God, grant me". I googled the Serenity Prayer and noticed in the AA history it was first noticed by a member in 1942 as an obituary in a New York paper, and at that time it was printed as "God, grant us". Which makes sense in the context of an obituary.

So does that group recite it as "us" or "me"? Just curiously. This prayer, I think, works just fine as a "me" prayer. Although it's a bit of a selfish prayer - give me serenity, dammit! Before I go postal on the friggin' world! lol Better to just say, "Thy will, not mine be done" and move on. I dunno, so far the Serenity Prayer hasn't really sunk in very well for me yet. I guess that's because I'm still resistant to the idea that there are things I can't change. hehehe my ego won't give up without a fight!

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

At the meetings I go to, I have only seen them closed with the 2 prayers mentioned here. 9 out of 10 times it is the Serenity Prayer. They specify "the we version" if it is to be "God grant us..." What I do find interesting is how different people lead into the prayer. With the Lord's prayer it is often started with "Who woke us up in the morning?" When I was at a meeting in a more rural area they started with something like "Who drives this bus that were all just tiny passengers on?" Also, other common ones seem to be "Let this circle represent what we cannot do alone, we can do together" and "A moment for all the sick and suffering alcoholics both in and outside these rooms." Anyone ever heard anything different?

toni baloney · Senior Member

Good Morning All

Wow, do I ever feel very humbled and corrected, yes the Serenity Prayer does begin with "God Grant me", not "God Grant us"

And as far as the Serenity Prayer being the dominant Prayer said at the close of most AA meetings, I also stand corrected.

My Sunday 9:30 morning home group, in Northern Marin that I attended for about 8 years did always close with saying The Lords Prayer and I think my own dyslexia got me yesterday and good. So when I begin to utter a Prayer it is always with the "Our Father..... Big time Brainlock on this.

And in moving to the most Southern part of this state, cannot say I am new here, just that I made the Wednesday noon meeting my Home Group, and they say the Serenity Prayer.

When I read all your responses this morning I thought to myself EKKKKK! How did I screw that up so badly. Dont know.

Sorry if I confused others as much as I confused myself:)

As far as the Aramaic Language, that little book is written in Aramaic, and then translated. It was the language spoken by the people, at the time that is was SPOKEN.

Sorry for confusing many and myself included.

Toni

-- Edited by toni baloney on Friday 26th of June 2009 06:11:16 PM

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

Well ya didn't confuse me, just gave me more to think about and an excuse to research the origins of the Serenity Prayer. Don't be so hard on yourself, Baloneycakes!

biggrin

TLH · MIP Old Timer

FlyingSquirrel wrote:

Hopefully this won't turn into a discussion about whether it should ever be said at meetings or any other religious discussion...

I should just sit back and be quiet then. ;)

Most of my meetings end with the Lord's prayer, and I treat it like the poetry that (to me) it is and nothing more. I used to have a problem with it, but that's just me.

The rest of the meetings end with the serenity prayer, which I first saw on my grandma's coffee cup when I was like 15 and have always thought it made a ton of sense. Me/us- I like us better. Hopefully we're all in this ship (of fools) together.

The context of the prayer in Matthew is as part of a discourse deploring people who pray simply for the purpose of being seen to pray. Matthew describes Jesus as instructing people to pray after the manner of this prayer. Taking into account the prayer's structure, flow of subject matter and emphases, one interpretation of the Lord's Prayer is as a guideline on how to pray rather than something to be learned and repeated by rote.

The above was borrowed from Wikipedia. That interpretation makes our use of the Lord's Prayer kind of ironic (especially my use of it!)

But they go on to say:

There are other interpretations suggesting that the prayer was intended as a specific prayer to be used. The New Testament reports Jesus and the disciples praying on several occasions; but as it never describes them actually using this prayer, it is uncertain how important it was originally viewed as being.

That's actually kind of a neat read. Breaks it down by line. Kinda like the NIV study bible (which gives me horrific ADD- too many tiny notes everywhere!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer

Dave Harm · Senior Member

If I'm not mistaken the original group - not usre if it was the Oxford Group or AA - had it written that a meeting should end with one of three prayers - One I can't remember the other two were The Lord's Prayer and the 11th Step Prayer

joelo · Senior Member

GREAT meditation on the Lord's Prayer ... and it makes me think much more in depth about the Serenity prayer. i like the "us" version, and i think i'm making that my version now.