Aloha Mark...you don't make it better by making it worse.  There is no justification
for violence.  I know that from experience.  I can tell you how bad it can get. 
Instead of a hotel or motel room you could be in one cost free by way of the
tax payer with the escorted ride without fare.  A 911 call and your a guest of the
city or county or state.  Mess her up and you're wrong.  If you think she is setting
you up than "Don't react" You're responsible for what happens to you so the
first suggestion is "Don't drink"  ...   next "Don't Think"  ...  continue your relation
ship with the program, your sponsor and your HP.   Sometimes the easiest person
to do in is an alcoholic...they participate real well.

(((((hugs)))))

I guess ALL emotions are greater without the alcohil...even anger. Anyway, slept on the couch. I don't like being this angry. I'm not really even sure why I am. We've had argument before, I think I used to get a buzz and ignore it.

Mark,
Not sure how your program is going but being in AA, the fellowship and turning your life over to a HP/God would help considerably in situations like these.

I've been in a similiar situation and environment.  I'm an alcoholic, married, two kids and we about the same age. 

Here's what I found to work for me:  I had to be separated from my wife and kids to focus on me and my recovery.  This was forced by me getting kicked out of the house.  It was the best thing that could've happened to me.  I got to focus on me, get to a lot of meetings, time to work with a sponsor and the steps and time to meditate and connect with my HP/God.  I was told that I couldn't screw anything up as long as I remained sober.  I put my trust in my sponsors and HP/Gods hands.  They didn't let me down.  Through working the program and steps I took care of myself and learned that I'd be o.k. with or without my wife.  Sounds strange but it's true.  I'm with my wife now, but I'd be o.k. even if we separated today.  Kids are resilient and forgive when they see change, not hear about change.

If your like me your staying with your wife and kids to try to change/repair the damage done by both you and your wife.  It never worked for me.  It made things woarse.  It took a lot for me to recognize that I can only take care of myself.  I spent years trying to control everyone and everything.  What a frustrating life it was.  

If your meant to be with your family it will happen.  If not, you'll be o.k.  After I moved back in with my family I talk to my sponsor for several months about whether my wife was right for me?  Was I settling for less?  Still don't know the answer to that but God will reveal in his time.

I'm very grateful for this life.  I'm one that thought this could never happen.  Good thing I put my trust in someone elses hands.

I've heard you say repeatedly that moving out or divorce = losing your kids. I'm not sure how many times you need it pointed out that they will remain your kids for life. Anyhow, if there is loud fighting and worse, violence....the effect on your kids watching that is worse than if you were separated. Most of the kids I work with whose parents argue all the time have verbalized to me they wished their parents had or would separate. While I am on this site as just another alcoholic...I will put on my other hat once in a while which is that I am also a child therapist. Kids watch everything Mark...They are coming up on adolescence and if the home environment remains this chaotic or with a drunk parent, they are going to want to escape it as soon as they hit puberty. That can take the form of drugs, alcohol, sex, negative peer friends...anything to find the security, escape, and sense of things being "right" that they aren't getting at home. If you and your wife are too busy arguing, or you are too busy drinking...how are the two of you going to deal with these issues? That is the real reason to take care of yourself. Model who you want them to be and the type of relationships you want them to have. You can't control your wife...but you can choose how you react to her. You can't really control your kids either...you influence them through your own actions. I know that's a huge load of crap to think about while you are trying to stay sober "a day at a time." I guess what I am saying is also remember you are getting sober to be a better person...less arguing...less fighting...if you can't be that better person where you are, go elsewhere and keep loving your kids and seeing them as much as you can from there and do that a day at a time. Staying together "for the kids" usually winds up hurting them more because they get used as weapons by both parents. I empathize for your situation. I really do. Part of this program is just "doing the next right thing." The longer you stay sober, the easier that will become.

It was very disturbing for me as well. I never feel that way and I have never laid a hand on her. I still haven't, but I can't stand the fact that it did come into my head...Although I didn't act on the feeling, I did have it. How do I not have feeling that I don't want? I guess I'm feeling EVERYTHING so more.

The rest of the story last night. I left, went to get a drink...diet sundrop. No alcohol, although I REALLY wanted to. I know it won't help. I came home, slept on the couch, back to work today.

Mark,

There is a saying that we are not responsible for our first thoughts.

HOWEVER, I believe the Jury's still might be out on the thought of hurting another human being. (Dont know this for a fact), but I believe that if you were to mention this thought process that you went through with a Professional Person, that person would be OBLIGATED to report your thoughts........................................................., but as i said I am only guessing here..

It has been so many months now, and you have not resolved these issues, and I personally dont understand why you are both still living under the same roof. It never seems to get better, like a clear understanding between you both. So what are you and she still doing together. ??? I am just scratching my head, and wondering... Why?????

Only a separation would allow you both to get a clear understanding, from a distance, just some thoughts out of me this a.m.

Take what you want and leave the rest, please.

Toni





-- Edited by toni baloney on Tuesday 23rd of June 2009 11:36:58 AM

The only way I could have stayed sober was by moving out. My ex threw her affair in my face every chance she got.

Part of it was a form of sabotaging my recovery. If I got drunk it gave her a reason to have that affair.

I lost the kids over it. I broke off all contact with them. That is until my sobriety was firmly in place.

Angry? Heck yes I was. And every time I thought I'd lose it, I'd call a friend and together we went to a meeting...

I am so grateful that my HP gave me the courage to keep moving forward. For right now, forget them and worry about you...

Mark,
Move out. Get sober. Live for the kids. Move on to another woman who is right for you. Leave the house. No violence. It is not worth it. Keep your integrity and dignity because it is all we really have. Have you talked to a lawyer about custody of the kids in this situation? You may not need to stay in the house. If she commited adultry and it can be proven she is at a disadvantage in any divorce. St Pete Dean had great advice on simply moving and paying the child support because it keeps you out of trouble and the child issues are laid out by the courts. It is simpler for you to keep yourself sober that way.
Good Luck
P.S.  Do you remember what Austin Power's reaction was at the begining of his second movie when he realised that his wife, Vanessa, was actually a "fembot" and then she exploded?  After a two second grief period, Austin realized that he was free to go and meet more women.  There are plenty of great women out there who will not treat you cruelly and will help with your quest for sobriety.

-- Edited by turninggrey on Tuesday 23rd of June 2009 09:12:47 PM

Hi Again Mark,

Well I wrote you a note about why I wanted to delete my own response, felt it was inappropriate, after thinking it over, but was not allowed to delete and change the content. Perhaps it was too late.

No worries,

Hugs to you, and hope you are having a much better day today.

Toni

I'll share my story with you, although it's different in one key respect (at least for now it is): I was still drinking when I got violent with my wife.

I used to pat myself on the back for the fact that I was a "happy drunk" - I never got angry and did horrible things to other people while drinking.  That was other people, the bad ones.  Not me.

Then it changed.  (Actually, now that I think about it, there was one time early on in my drinking where I was driving extremely fast and very angrily.  Could've killed myself or someone else, so maybe I was just fooling myself - but usually I did not get angry while drunk.)  I started doing things in the heat of anger while drunk - things like coming home, finding my 9-year-old daughter still awake at 2 am, and telling her that there was no Santa Claus (basically saying, grow up, this is real life so stop being a stupid little baby brat.)

It got to be at its worst just before my wife moved out.  Her best friend had died (an older guy who had become kind of a father figure to her but wasn't really old enough to be her father) and she had adopted a new "best friend" at a bar.  The problem was, he was younger than the other person had been and I didn't trust him.  She got drunk a lot (I think she's alcoholic as well, but that's for her to decide) and would sometimes pass out on his couch instead of coming home.  Sometimes without even calling me.  To put it mildly, I was fit to be tied.  Then one day she confessed to me that he had leaned forward while they were talking in the bar and kissed her.  She said that he had not meant to do it and had apologized right away.  I demanded that she stop going to the two places that he frequented, and stop going to his house.  She resisted, but eventually promised.  Turned out that she only promised that to shut me up.  I had at some point learned where he lived, and on nights that I lost contact with her I would start going there to see if her car was outside.

I don't believe that she actually cheated on me - not physically.  But I felt cheated on nonetheless.  One night I was extremely drunk, went by his house and saw her car there.  I went to the window and heard laughing inside.  I looked around, found a huge rock, and for a moment hesitated.  Then I threw it through the picture window, got into my truck and went home.  My daughter was sitting on the couch by the door, awake at 2:30 am.  I went into my wife's jewelry-making room, and began grabbing everything I could get my hands on and throwing it all out into the front yard.  This was her life I was destroying, the only thing she liked to do (besides drink).  Thousands of dollars worth of materials and uncounted hours worth of work.  My daughter meanwhile retreated to her bedroom with a very frightened look on her face. 

The aftermath, of course, was not pretty.  She had her family come and help her clean it up the best they could, and moved out shortly thereafter.  We are still separated (10 months later), and I know she'll never be able to forget what happened.  I have no idea whether we'll ever get back together, although it's something I want and I think she wants too.  But what happened can never be taken back.  Every time she finds a broken gemstone, or can't find something, the incident comes back into her mind.  It's the gift that keeps on giving.  I have no idea whether it will ever be possible for me to make full amends for it.  Also, my throwing the rock through the window beforehand affected her and made her fear me and fear what else I might be capable of.

I guess what I'm saying is, although you might not have been violent up till now while drinking, it can happen and the alcohol removes the inhibitions that limit how violent you might become.  I would never have done what I did without the alcohol removing those inhibitions for me.  Sure, I can say to her, "It'll never happen again because now I don't drink" - but how can she know for sure that I'll never drink again?  I'm an alcoholic.  It could happen, and she knows it even though she doesn't completely agree that I am an alcoholic (if she agreed, it would mean she would have to admit that she was an alcoholic too, since her drinking is pretty close to what mine used to be).

I hope you'll be able to avoid any violence while not drinking - but just remember that if you do start drinking again, you could still become violent and that violence could end up being worse than anything you might otherwise do while sober.  If you don't love your wife anymore, that might not matter too much to you but I think you probably still do love her and even if you eventually get divorced, someday you would probably regret what might happen.  Also your kids would be affected - not a small consideration.

Check out some anger management classes in your area - they might help a bit.  I went to one recently. It wasn't a cure-all by any means, but it did help a little. Every bit helps.  Reading books about anger also helps (and is free).


Good luck!

Glenn

-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Wednesday 24th of June 2009 11:02:18 PM

MDC,
You write: "What scares me is losing the people that I love."

I was told and believe now that anything you put before your sobriety you will lose.  That includes the people you love.  Eventhough it's hard; I've done it too, you need to let go of your family and work on yourself.  Your family will be fine.  They might even be better off without you for awhile.  Some free time while you clean up your side of the street.  By working on yourself you'll determine who you are and what you want.  In turn; if you do the leg work the PROMISES will come true for you.  You will in turn be a better person and a better Dad.  Surrender my friend and listen to the folks who have experience going down the same road you are.  Follow the winners and you'll win. 

Joni also makes a very good point and suggestion.  This website is very good, the best in my mind, but if your an alcoholic like me, it won't by itself keep you sober and happy.  Many of us use this site in addition to our programs.  It not here for a substitution; in my opinion anyways.  The program is:  face to face meetings ( a lot of them), sponsorship, HP, Steps and Fellowship.

Mike