How would you answer this ? or would you answer at all?

Doll · MIP Old Timer

How would you answer this ? or would you answer at all?

kkotz401 · Senior Member

Interesting post. I must say I agree with you. I think sobriety is not drinking alchohol at all. It has gotten me to a great clarity and helped me to believe in myself. This is what works for me.

MDC · Senior Member

In my opinion YOU are right...and consistent. On 5-9-09 You wrote me:

"Well, Hun, Shit happens! I'm glad you made it back, as some do not..... Think about where you went 'wrong' -- your congratulating yourself on 60 days a few days back when technically you didn't have 60 days. Maybe you didn't get drunk, but you drank! An alcoholic can't do that. It never works. It may work once or twice or even for a few months, as I somehow managed it for 6 ! But it's never forever. We end up drunk, at some point, every single time! Alcoholism is progressive.... After all a pickle can never be a cucumber again! "

I remember when I read this, the first time. It hurt my feelings a little, but you right then, and you are right now.

It really doesn't matter if I can do a week or a month of "sobriety", if my actions will have me drunk tomorrow. Just delaying invetable. What matters is that we are building our lifestyles and habits that will keep us SOBER in the truest sense of the word.

I know of all people, I'm not the one anyone here would expect to hear this from. If I have a drink today, I WILL have two tomorrow. I seem to have a way to justify it, I'm not drunk, I'm not "over the limit." I know if I'm not tonight, I will be tomorrow if I'm not careful. My last "slip" started with a wine tasting on the way home from a trip. Two days later it was a 12 oz. beer, a week later.. 3 beers. Almost a month later, half a bottle of Jim, a six pack and 5 or 6 pain killers. It all started with a taste.

I wrote in a post or a "PM" to somebody that even the taste of wine on her lips leaves me wanting more (alcohol.) She isn't and alholic, mabye a bottle of wine every 2 months, but for me, just the taste triggers something in me. Maybe I'm oversensitive to it because I'm new, but I KNOW what I'll do with a little...get more. I don't want medicine alcohol in it, mouthwash with alcohol, or even my wife's kiss with alcohol on it...BECAUSE EVERDAY I STRUGGLE NOT TO DRINK.

Where would anyone of us be today if we never even had the first TASTE, let alone the first "real" drink.

Some people CAN have a drink and stop, but would they be powerless over alcohol? an alcoholic? Some alcoholics may be able to, I don't know, but why play with fire?

I don't know if I would answer or not...I struggle with my own issues too much to get into this kind of arguement with someone about it. That's just me, maybe after a few years, my answer might be different, but not now.

-- Edited by MDC on Sunday 21st of June 2009 09:53:58 PM

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha Jen...

I was taught that alcoholism affected me on various levels...mind, body, spirit and emotions and then I came to learn later on that if I was not recovering on all levels
at the same time I wasn't recovering.   Just for me then sobriety has become not
just about not drinking. On the mental level I don't do rationalizations or what it is
or isn't with new comers expecially those who I recognize as "self contained". Part
of my education was my self inventory with feedback from others in the program.
"My best thinking got me here and it will be my best thinking that keeps me from
recovering."   When I first got into program I was told to sit down and shut up and
that I knew nothing about recovery. If I can remember that was one of the often
repeated suggestions to me for sometime past the first 90 days.   I didn't know...
and I didn't know that I didn't know. I still had opinions and were allowed to have
them without discussion.   You know what works, especially what works for you.
Often times you'll need to keep it a secret when the newcomer decides to lead
their own sobriety. That I believe is what HP is for.

(((((hugs))))) smile

Doll · MIP Old Timer

MDC wrote:

I remember when I read this, the first time. It hurt my feelings a little,

I'm sorry. My intentions were NOT to hurt your feelings, I hope you know this. I just know from my own experience and from others in the rooms in of AA who've done the same. NO one has ever come back to an AA meeting to announce they were no longer an alcoholic and could now drink socially. biggrin

((hugs)) and love.

cramcj01 · Senior Member

That's a very interesting post, and I can see both sides. I think it depends on where the head is of the person drinking the ''small amount of alcohol' is. And the only person to really know that, is the person.

About a month ago, I took a sip of this thick, banana shake, homemade alcohol. I did it a little out of pressure, but also because I was interested and wondered. They said it just had a small amount of alcohol in it. I knew that is was not sip to try and get drunk.

That was the only taste of alcohol I've had since my sobriety date, I've always contemplated if I actually need to now change my date. But I have chose not too. It's a good post and makes me think of my situation also confuse

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Speaking from the necomer's perspective, I wouldn't change my sobriety date. Yes, there is some rationalization going on there...and the newcomer could be on a slippery slope, BUT...the newcomer is trying hard to do the program and it seems to be catching on because he is letting himself be teachable in most ways. I tried near beers before coming to AA and wound up relapsing. I recently went out to a fondue restaurant though and they flombayed (sp?) the desert. I was hesitant to eat any of it. I had already requested no beer as the base of any cheese (which was done). I did try some chocolate that had been flombayed but didn't taste any alcohol and almost talked myself out of eating chocolate with burned off alcohol only on the top. Shrug. If someone said I had to start from day zero cuz of that, I would tell them no. I never ate food to get drunk, even though my dumb ass might have rationalized early on that I could eat bread drenched in liquor and it wasn't drinking (okay, maybe I'm not that dumb but still..) Next time, if there is one (cuz I didn't like having to freaking ask that everything be made without alcohol), I am going to tell the waiter clearly "No alcohol in any of this food." With that said, I avoid every product I can with alcohol, avoid bars, avoid avoid avoid. I know that haircut saying. I wouldn't even be sipping any drink with alcohol in it...even some froofy daquiri (I almost never drank those and it would take me like 100 to get drunk when I was actively drinking). I am scared I would like the taste too much and would be like "mmm this is good SLURP! Gimmee another!" But that is just me. Anyhow, the newcomer is learning and that's all that matters. Having a relatively open mind. Remember, the majority of people hit 1 or 2 meetings and never come back. So...I would stay positive and encourage...and only call out the BS when it's really glaring. Like if they "accidentally drank a six pack." It is BS regarding sobriety not meaning abstinence from alcohol...nobody could work a real program without abstinence. I think this newcomer is recognizing the need for complete abstinence now though and if they got the message then good. I have met many with long term sobriety that have had incidents where they accidentally picked up something with alcohol in it and realized it on the first sip. If the reaction is "OMG! WTF!" followed by honesty, I think they are clearly still working the program. If it was "Who cares!? I will go around and have 1 sip of everyones drink now! It's just a sip!" That would be different.

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

Let's see. I would probably assume that the fact the person sent it to you PRIVATELY meant it was PRIVATE CONVERSATION. The subject was pretty much closed on the open forum, although if you'd wanted to you certainly could have gone down to the bottom of the page (or the next page, wherever it is) and reopened it for your perverse pleasure.

You know what, Doll? You go on ahead with your fun little life here on the AA forum which is clearly your private little playground.

"I play by the rules...........the AA rules, that is :)"

Oops, sorry that was private conversation from you to me. Guess it's not so private since mine isn't private for you. Since I've gotten conflicting advice from many in AA on this topic, I'd say that you seem to think that your rules are "The AA rules" when in fact they are only your own (and those who share your opinion - it seems that you are very intent on seeing who does share your opinion so you can validate yourself and maybe make a hit list of those who don't.)

You've just driven a newcomer away from this forum, permanently. I'll just stick with the real Alcoholics Anonymous where I can at least look the person in the eye when they talk to me. And where I can avoid meetings that have the big shot old-timers who think they own the program, but don't have a whole lot of the humility that is the foundation of the program.

But I'll try and remember to pray for you.

-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Monday 22nd of June 2009 02:29:25 PM

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Jen, I've deleted the details you posted that were sent to you given the private nature of those emails. I hope you can understand & forgive the intrusion. It is not my intention to cause you any offence. Danielle x

Glenn, I hope you will continue to visit & post at MIP. We value all our members here. Your contribution is valued. Godbless, Danielle x

Phil · MIP Old Timer

There was no reason for part of this post to be deleted. I read it. It was anonymous.

This is a pretty open board..be flexable..

Anything can be shared on here..and I mean anything.

Keep an open mind.

And keep on truckin. :)