Tradition 10

LuckySailor · Newbie

Tradition 10

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

"Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy."

Wouldn't this article be considered "an outside issue"?

I think the bottom line is that stuff like this happens frequently and there's nothing that you can do about it. If you want someone to tell you that you're right and he's wrong, that shouldn't be hard, but again what good will it do? I understand you're frustration, but there are a lot of worse things that have happened. Google "the midtown group" in DC, for instance. I attended the midtown group in the late '80's and it was an awesome celebration meeting frequented by celebs (the late SRV for one). The group went cultish and started abusing young new comers.
I contacted AA world services NY about it and they said that because all groups are "autonomous" and they have no control (nor wish to) over them. It protects AA I guess, and for the most part it works.

LuckySailor · Newbie

StPeteDean,

Thanks for your thoughts. I must say it is not me that is upset. This guy is my friend & I find myself bias towards him. Some other folks in this area are up in arms. I was just looking to see what other ones thoughts were in reference to the 10th Trad. Personally I do not find any part of his written newspaper article that breaks a tradition. Just wanted to hear from other folks not local, making it easier to be non-biased.

Thx Again Brother, Al L.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Gotta admit that I skimmed the article. I'l read it fully later (trying to work

) and get back to you with a real answer instead of a drive by one.

Whatever the hooplah is about this, they'll get over it. Personally I don't guard my anonymity at all as I think that it is beneficial to people who may be in trouble and looking, to see someone who is successfully recovering. Looks like this was the spirit of your friends letter.

toni baloney · Senior Member

Hi Lucky,

Read and re-read that story, and found it to be pretty harmless, and it has already been done, right?

There was a well known columnist in San Francisco for the Chonicle, the largest Paper in the Bay area, that wrote about his own experiences in drinking and finding AA, and the praises, just like this man did. And I recall everyone being so up in arms, making such a big deal out of it. And my thinking was, it has already happened, and if he did not follow the 10th Tradition,

"Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy."

He could not recind the article, so thinking now of the spilled milk thing. For the most part, I feel pretty comfortable that this is not something that is violated very often.
Of course it would be so great if it never happens ever, but when it does, what can be done, I dont see a lot of options here, is what I am saying. Like what is done, is Done.

Let us know if the uproar dies down, ok? and thank you so much for the Post.
We would love to see more of you here, if you are so inclined.

Wishing you the Best,
Toni

-- Edited by toni baloney on Tuesday 16th of June 2009 06:42:12 PM

Doll · MIP Old Timer

Being on the inside (of AA) the article made me feel like the guy was 'tooting his own horn' as they say. Doing that INSIDE the rooms is one thing, but OUTSDE is a whole 'nother story.

I do know for sure I would not want to be nor would I volunteer to be the poster child for AA. I could very easily go back out tomorrow. Good reason for anonymity, huh!

~ Jen

BGG · Senior Member

The article is to me a pretty clear violation of Tradition Eleven: "Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films." That said, the article has been written and published. Seems to me that a quiet, one on one with the writer from an A.A. friend is what is in order. Many A.A. members are not that familiar with the 12 Traditions and I'm sure the writer didn't mean any harm. We are all just "works in progress" and if no one ever lovingly corrects us, we couldn't truly recover.

BGG

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

trad 10 - AA has no opinion on outside issues etc.... the writer is giving his personal opinion on graduation from drug courts, not AA - no where in the article can I see where he has used the AA 'brand' to validate his opinion.

trad 11, our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion - I found this a very attractive article, again, nowhere does the writer say that AA will cure you, only that AA can help you and even then only at the last paragraph. all other references to help and support refer to a 12 step programme.

Maybe there's a wee bit of trumpet blowing going on but personally I think it's a readable and well constructed article. No anonimity broken (except his own, which contradicts the trad that says we will maintain anonimity at the level of press, radio and television, but he's not the first and won't be the last.)(oh yes that's the other part of trad 11)

-- Edited by bikerbill on Wednesday 17th of June 2009 11:10:09 AM

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

IMO,

the 11th tradition is more at stake with the article. Maintaining personal anonymity at the level of press radio and film.

He doesn't mention AA specifically, so technically he may not be breaking the tradition but is getting close.

I see nothing wrong with the article, he could have mentioned AA but then he would have to remain anonymous by name.

A article written about AA by a non-alcoholic abou.t AA in readers digest back in the 1940's opened the flood-gates for alcoholics seeking help

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

They're traditions, not unbreakable rules. They were written that way on purpose, with a bunch of "oughts" and "needs". The reason they were written that way, IMVHO, is that AA did not want to ever be able to control another person.

So this writer disregarded tradition 10 & 11, in some people's opinion, to some degree. What consequence should there be? None, at any official level. (And just how official could that level get anyway, the way AA is structured?) Perhaps it was a mistake, but all things happen for a reason and those who are having difficulty accepting it may just want to re-read page 417 of the 4th edition Big Book.

Personally, I have no opinion on the article except that I loved the analogy about unplugging a stereo that's at full blast and then plugging it in again 5 years later. I'll use that one sometime when a non-alcoholic quizzes me about why I'm still going to meetings.

angelov8 · MIP Old Timer

Rob84,

Are you sure that if someone mentions AA in media, they must remain anonymous according to AA as it is written? I'm just beginning to study the BB and other AA materials. I am also about to look for work in publishing after finishing schooling for editing. So I find this discussion really interesting. The book that got me to here and to AA was Drinking: A Love Story by Caroline Knapp. This doesn't appear to be a pen name and she talks about AA directly, but only about herself and her personal story.

I've been wondering how the materials for AA get published and edited(or not edited).

I see the benefit of staying out of controversy and the other things the traditions mention about the organization of the fellowship.

I also feel that people not familiar with AA in the general public make assumptions (I used to for sure) about the organization with out real knowledge. It reminds me of talking about the Atkins Nutritional plan with people who clearly do not have concrete information about what this actually is. For example, I saw misinformation in a new O Magazine just today.

So when I saw the original message here, my first thought was, here's someone wanting to offer information about possibilities for change that are pretty awesome.

I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on the thread.

-Angelov8

PS- Squirrel, I just re-read your post, I'll have to read that page tomorrow.

-- Edited by angelov8 on Thursday 18th of June 2009 03:48:58 AM

-- Edited by angelov8 on Thursday 18th of June 2009 03:53:12 AM

-- Edited by angelov8 on Thursday 18th of June 2009 03:53:47 AM

-- Edited by angelov8 on Thursday 18th of June 2009 03:57:47 AM

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Angelov8, that tradition relates to famous people that go on tv and talk about how they are sober in AA.
First if they relapse after doing so, then people might think it's AA that doesn't work. If they act like jerks, then people may think that we're all that way in AA (well we do have a few of those lol), last is that no matter who the famous person is, there are people who already don't like them, so it gives AA a face to dislike, one way or another. Writing a book, imo, is not considered "Press, Radio, or Films".

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

Hi Angelov8,

To answer your question, it is not a problem to talk about or mention AA itself at the level of press radio and film, we are not to break our anonymony as "AA members" and thus position ourselves as authorities.

Like Dean said, mostly to protect others opinions of AA