I give up

MDC · Senior Member

I give up

sabby · Veteran Member

What's going on? they say rarely has this failed when people have really given it a best shot and followed the path... whats been happening?

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hey Mark, you continue to display rigorous honesty, a key ingredient in this pursuit. The other two are openness and willingness rounding out the acronym HOW. Openness would be seeing yourself doing this and being open to suggestion, and willingness to follow through. If you change your mind, pray for these these gifts as they are essential to making it happen.

MDC · Senior Member

Sabby, the program didn't fail, I did. I guess what Dean said, my willingness just isn't there. Trying to deal with the loss of my family, problems at work and the lonliness of it all. I know I haven't been honest with my self. I know I was getting sober to save my family, not to save myself.

The strange thing is I don't even want to drink right now. I just want the peace and serenity everyone talks about...and my family.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hey Mark,

we can only work on one thing at a time, and concentrate on "doing the next right thing", "putting one foot in front of the other". Keep suiting up and showing up, and keep moving. More will be revealed.

Dakota · Senior Member

"The strange thing is I don't even want to drink right now. " (GOOD!!!)

Well, I am NOT giving up on you ! (anyone else here feel this way about MDC? ) You have the right attitude more than when you first started. Just bear with it, you are progressing and you don't even realize it.

Just like how Winter changes to Spring. It is subtle, happening whilst we are unaware and yet it blooms from the frigid icy bones of winter to the warm and colorful, wistful wiles of spring... Not all days are warm sunny and happy, and lots of them are dark cold and dreary. Just look to the positive, look up and get busy DO ANYTHING but be alone or with drinking cronies...

Supportive network building, reaching out types of activities. and prayer for Grace...

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

MDC, Did America quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO! (Humor interjected on purpose to break the tense mood) Look, even if you are doing this to deal with the loss of your family and not yourself, that IS a NOBLE cause. If for no other reason, you should stay the course because without that noble cause, you just become another drunk WITHOUT the noble cause! It sounds to me like you are searching for your higher power to come into play and give you a release from lonlieness and a spiritual boost. That is different for everyone. I am not going to get into the whole religion thing here because the "higher power" is supposed to be whatever the individual needs it to be, but if I can touch the "third rail" for a second, I will tell you how my Dad helped me. He said to pray (in our case to the Catholic concept of God) like its a phone call. Its a phone call where you know the other end can hear, but can only respond by events in your life. He said to unburden yourself like it is actually the most trusted, caring, honest, non judgemental, giving person you have ever known. Do not be embarrased to ask for specific help. Finally, when things get to a point where you feel like you are at now (overwhelmed, depressed, etc) Just ask your Higher Power to take each of your problems from you until the next day. "Give it to God" was my Dad's concept of this. So here's the deal. My Dad is dead, but I still feel his spirit, and I equate that with the spirit of my Higher Power. So, if you promise not to wear him out, feel free to channel my Dad for your Higher Power any time you need a boost. I guarantee you will be warmly recieved. Honestly, just hang on. Things look better with time.

-- Edited by turninggrey on Tuesday 26th of May 2009 03:32:42 PM

MDC · Senior Member

I know you all are right, but it's so damn hard. All I ever was, all my self worth came from was being a husband, father and provider. I've lost myself somewhere along the way. Who am I now? Who do I want to be? Do I want to be??

I don't even know where I'm supposed to go after work...home?? a hotel?? Please nobody say a meeting, that's obvious, but then where? Pulling down an above average income, I have a truck, suv and home...but I'm homeless......

Dakota · Senior Member

"All I ever was, all my self worth came from was being a husband, father and provider."
No, you are much much more.
And the material things are just that, things, All replaceable.

But YOU are so much more. As you struggle through this, feelings of all kinds erupt. They seem like everything, but they are not. They are damn hard.

As you strive toward changing the things that are hardwired into your being, as you release some of this stuff that is holding you down, there will continue to be changes. Try to take a deep breath, let in the good and release the ugly crap. ( i do not know why we have the habit of holding onto crap, but it must be something to do with a primitive state or something) But in any case continue to get rid of the ugly stuff.

As an alcoholic I feel that I personally have fed off of the dump pile long enough. I hate that part of myself, so I am cutting that ugly stuff out. Many here are trying and have done same.

And I know you want it, and I know you can continue to strive for it.

Hang in there buddy.

Dave Harm · Senior Member

When I quit drinking I had a fear of not only going to jail but also ending up divorced. And at first this was the reason I quit drinking. But as time went on and I became a regular at AA meetings I slowly began feeling good about the direction my life was going.

But something happened along the way. My family wasn't enjoying the new me and whether consciously or sub-consciously they tried to sabotage my recovery. And I was slowly becoming that little lost boy again. I tried so hard to protect my mom from my dad with lies and stories. So hopefully he wouldn't beat her. I became a protector.

And in my sobriety I was finding that role again when I was trying to protect my ex-wife. It got to the point that I almost lost not only my sobriety but also myself.

About 8-10 months into my recovery, my counselor suggested to me that since the 12 Steps worked so well for my alcoholism, why not apply them with my marriage. It was something I never thought of at that time. Could I be addicted to my wife?

I started working the 12 Steps of Al-anon and after six months I began to realize that my marriage was not only dysfunctional but it was also extremely toxic for my sobriety.

I began to understand that for my new life to flourish, part of me had to die. 14 months after I took my last drink, I sat down and wrote out what I would gain and what I would lose if I got a divorce. This is what I wrote on 11/8/1995. By April of 1996 I filed for divorce.

I would gain sanity and lose insecurity.

I would find respect and lose madness.

I would strengthen my sobriety and lose death.

I would find peace and lose confusion.

I would find inner strength and lose anger.

I'd understand gratitude and give up control.

The journey would be filled with excitement not desperation.

I'd embrace trust and throw away manipulation.

I'd cherish spiritual comfort and lose mental exhaustion.

I'd find some initiative and throw away guilt.

I'd be autonomous without shame.

I'd recognize boundaries and lose the fear of abandonment.

I'd find freedom and thankfully understand my addictions.

I'd be able to forgive and no longer need resentments.

I'd hope for the future and accept the past.

I can accept His Will and no longer would I be in denial.

Instead of perfection, I was OK just being me.

I understood reality and threw away the fantasies.

And I found my dreams and lost the nightmares.

For me divorce was more about what I gained instead of what I lost. Yes, I woke up in the mornings alone, but I wasn't lonely. And instead of being in a dysfunctional relationship, I found a new support system with people that would become lifelong friends. Through the years the people have changed, but the friendships have remained strong.

Sobriety couldn't save my marriage. But it wasn't because of a lack of effort. I walked away from that relationship knowing that for me to survive, part of me had to die. And like any scared little child would do, I took hold of His hand and let Him be in charge. And those fears and uncertainties disappeared as we went on a journey I never dreamed was possible. PEACE WILL COME...

-- Edited by Dave Harm on Tuesday 26th of May 2009 04:02:38 PM

-- Edited by Dave Harm on Tuesday 26th of May 2009 04:06:50 PM

MDC · Senior Member

I just talked to my wife. I can't do this. I just don'e see a way to keep going. i read what you all are saying, i know you are right. But this pain is more than I can continue to bear.

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

MDC wrote:

I just talked to my wife. I can't do this. I just don'e see a way to keep going. i read what you all are saying, i know you are right. But this pain is more than I can continue to bear.

Dude, If not for the wife, do it for the kids! The wife is an adult who is choosing her own way. I do not know your situation with your wife, but your kids need you to be strong so that they can be strong. If your wife is one of the things you need to "Give to God" today, then do that and move on. Your kids see more than you know. They will be in your life for as long as you live, and if you can stay victorious over this disease, they will know it. Please hang in there.

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

Where to live? A safe hotel that charges by the month that is close to your kids. After the meeting, and after doing everything in your power to do whats right, you make sure you eat right, and watch a little TV. I suggest Spongebob. In times like these you need to just survive while healing mentally. If the wife is causing you pain unfairly, just stay sober and show her you are changing. She may not take you back, but she also might. Allow your Higher Power to work! Please stay in the program for your kids.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

MDC wrote:

I just talked to my wife. I can't do this. I just don'e see a way to keep going. i read what you all are saying, i know you are right. But this pain is more than I can continue to bear.

If it hurts that much to talk to your wife, then why do it? It's like the guy that walks into the Doctor's office and says "Doc, it hurts when I do this." And the Dr. replies "Well, than don't do that".

TooTaaToo · Veteran Member

Mark,

I will tell you what someone told me once that made an impact upon my life in a crucial time.

"This is today. Tomorrow is tomorrow. Today will certainly pass. Tomorrow is certainly coming. And you can be assured that you will harvest tomorrow exactly what you plant today. This is an undeniable fact of creation.

If you will plant a good seed today into your own life, you will undoubtedly harvest a good harvest tomorrow. This is a rule of life. As much a rule as gravity is. You can't circumvent it in any way and it always works. What you must decide now is whether you will plant good seeds or evil ones into your life. The choice is yours.

I can absolutely assure you, that if you will choose to good seeds, that not only will you reap a good crop, but also you will reap much more goodness than you plant. Much like planting one kernel of corn and reaping a stalk of corn with hundreds of kernels of corn.

Then he ended it with this: Choose today and now what you will plant. Either goodness and life or evil and death."

This was almost shocking to me when I heard it, but it "shocked" me out of the enormous selfishness I was feeling at the time. It made me realize that I was in control of my tomorrows, by what I decided to do today. Doing what was right at that time was the hardest, loneliest, most distasteful thing I have ever done, but I can certainly attest to the harvest it brought. I wanted to take the easy way and just quit. But certainly that would have been the hardest thing because of the wretched harvest that would have certainly brought to me in the future.

May I encourage you. No matter how difficult it is, choose the right thing in your life today. Give up what you want to do, for what you know is absolutely right and your harvest will be superb!

Dakota · Senior Member

habits have always been hard to break.
None of us is perfect and not any of us has never fallen.
we learn, make mistakes and learn some more.

But prayer and Grace are pretty good guiding lights.

MDC · Senior Member

I don't know if it's the "bi-polor" or depression or what. I just don't see a way out. I figure that my wife's affair has moved to the point she had to make some decissions. She used my drinking as an excuse for her...NOT to say that my drinking was ok. I just feel so trapped and alone. I can't bear the thought of some other man living with my kids. And what about their pain. Maybe it's better for them to have pain for a short time and spare them what appears to be headed their way??

I'm going to a spber friends house, I need more than AA can give tonight.

TooTaaToo · Veteran Member

Mark,

And this is just what I was talking about in my post above. I don't think it was an accident that this was the very next post I read after I posted to this thread.

http://aa.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=42735&p=3&topicID=28133984

-- Edited by TooTaaToo on Tuesday 26th of May 2009 06:30:44 PM

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

http://aa.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=42735&p=3&topicID=28133984

MDC · Senior Member

Thanks Dean and Dave. As much as she says she hates me, and I know she does, she hid the f***** guns. probally to protect herself, not me. I'd never hurt her.

When I pulled in the subdivision she was walking with a neighnor. She waved like there was nothing at all wrong. How can she be so cold? I'm ripped apart inside and she's smiling and waving???

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Mark, I had the same experience. I came to the conclusion that my x-wife never really loved me, I was just a warm body. I also came to appreciate what was told to me by many men in AA who'd been through it, that as I grew through my recovery, I would realize that I'd out grown her or that we were basically incompatible. She fell in love with a practicing alcoholic and I was no longer one of those. As predicted, she found several others to replace me, and she's divorced again. I am extremely grateful to be away from her, for 20 years now and I thought that my life was over when we were splitting up. It was not the end, just the beginning of a new life, as Dave put so well. None of us are saying it's easy. It's not, and it's gonna hurt for awhile. What we're saying is that it's just a matter of time until till it passes and you'll care less and less until a time where you will be grateful that it happened. Besides sobriety, it was the best thing to happen for me.

Dave Harm · Senior Member

When I was drinking and early in recovery I couldn't imagine a life without my ex.

Now that I am sober I can't imagine a life with her.

But, I also didn't race into it. We were separated for two years. It took me that long to realize that I had to keep moving forward. Who knows what the future will hold. But right now, just live for today.

-- Edited by Dave Harm on Tuesday 26th of May 2009 09:09:10 PM

Doll · MIP Old Timer

Prayers and (((hugs))))

Jen

MDC · Senior Member

OK, I just back from my "sober" friend's house. He is going through the same crap with his wife. I ended up trying to talk HIM down...How can I feel sorry for myself when he needs help?? He almost ruined my self loathing...ALMOST. I'm home now and am being reminded how she tried to work on things in the past and now that I'm trying...it's too late. Sucks to be me, I guess. Going to take a shower and get ready for tomorrow. If she's ready to walk away, as much as it hurts, I can't stop it. I don't thik she can kick me out.?. I haven't done anything wrong, except take her excuses away.

I can't pretend it doesn't hurt, it's more than I can bear...but I made it through today, and that's a plus.

-- Edited by MDC on Tuesday 26th of May 2009 10:41:05 PM

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

I remember my last few drunks...clutching pills, threatening to kill myself, saying I can't make it on my own, and I hate myself and I'm a shell of a person. My relationship was over. I went out binging and then cheating on my partner myself until it all wound up with me having a horrible car crash where I could have died or killed someone else. It was at that point in which I recognized I could not and would not make my life any worse. My partner of 7 years had tried to overdose on pills and had just gotten out of the psych ward. His blood sugar was over 300 and he refused further testing and checked himself out against medical advice. Within a week of what seemed to be a relationship on the mend we both started drinking heavy again and the situation got worse (telling this story a bit out of order). He'd put me in a position of watching him die and I was doing the same. That was how crazy and toxic the relationship was. I left with only 2 grocery bags of things and stayed with my only friend at that time. He was screaming "How can you just walk out that door!" "If you leave now it means you are really leaving and I can't watch you do this!" I left. It was so painful. I left all my stuff. I left everything and built this apartment up with things that were GIVEN to me by AA. The one time I went over to get stuff, we got in a fight so bad he had an iron over my head, was about to hit me with it and also waved a bottle of wine in my face when I had 12 days sober while laughing and saying "I love alcohol!" Eventually, I couldn't even speak to my ex and wanted nothing to do with him so I just let him have it all (except the cat lol). I was so depressed I cried in AA meetings for a good 2 months. Then it was pointed out and became obvious to me that AA was not enough. I started therapy. All I can tell you Mark is what I did and it got better. AA and those meetings saved my life because counting up those days, getting that support, and having others reach out to me was all I had to live for at that time (or at least it felt that way). I continued to go to work through all of it. I did it with the strength I found in those rooms and then also with the strength I am finding in therapy. I had completely lost myself in alcoholism and a toxic relationship. So, like many others are sharing here...I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL and I'm not so far from it. AA is probably not the only answer here Mark. It wasn't for me, but it was a damn good start. I do think you need to get out on your own. That might mean checking yourself into detox or rehab or a halfway house. It wouldn't be the first time it happened and a significant portion here will tell you that is where they started or went multiple times before finally getting sober. My staying with that friend for 1 month was pretty much my detox/rehab. I was on a path towards losing my job, home, and then death. I had to start turning it around and so do you. Anyhow, there is more help out there, you just have to rip off the infected bandaid and open yourself up to some healing. Having your wife be with someone else will not kill you or totally take you from your kids. Alcoholism and untreated depression will do that to you.

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha Mark...You've been around recovery for such a short time. There is soooo
much more to experience. You can't experience it if your away for it. I here you
say what I use to say, "I can't" and at the same time I hear the voice of my past
sponsor saying, "its not that you can't...its that you won't." I didn't understand
that kind of honesty existed, that another man knew me better than I knew my
self. I was also told that since I could not predict the future stop trying to
imagine that I knew how things would turn out for me, for other, for life. I could
only know that if I worked with others at getting and being sober the chances
were I would be that some day. I was told that all of the recovering drunks
around me had been where I was at then and the pain had all passed for them
without a single drink between them. I was told that if I didn't know what it
was that I was looking for I had to trust that what I got would be better than
what I had. (They could have put a guarantee on that last one) There are no
drinks, people, places or things worth enough to purchase my current sobriety
and at one time I wailed at the moon for what I imagined was being taken from
me. In sobriety some of it would be freely given up and some of it would never
leave because it became more precious when my vision cleared up.

Since you cannot predict the future why not live just in the day. Accept the day
for the time that it is and take on an attitude of gratitude for the gifts you still
have and the ones your HP has bestowed upon you without any effort or little
effort of your own. What are these?...go get a pad of paper and a working pen
and make an inventory...not about what you think is gone or what you think you're
loosing, but what you have regardless of your attitude.

Talk to others who have already been on the journey you say you "can't" take.
Listen to their stories about what it use to be like, what they learned, and what
it's like for them now. If you're up to convincing yourself that inspite of all of the
support you have, "you just can't" do this, then be honest and quit. Don't do it
and don't try.   You won't ever have to do that 60 day experiment again before
others who know all about it and others and then say in shock..."what was I
thinking."   There are too many servants on this board who have shared their
sobriety awareness and experiences that I would want to say that. Like an old
timer told me years ago when facing his HP prior to his inventory, "Before this
time I would have to say forgive me for what I have done. Now that I have sat
in these rooms and come to understand, I would have to say forgive me for what
I am about to do."

Every honest drunk on this forum knows about alcoholism and their part in it.
After I read their experiences, strengths and hope building support I don't have
the strength to say "I can't". Better yet I say, "Please help me" which is what
pulled me thru the doors of recovery.   "Courage is faith that has said it prayers."
"You don't create your own miracles...they are given to you without condition."
"God always does God's part...this is about us doing ours."

If you're not ready...you're not ready. Some of my greatest teachers in recovery
were alkies who didn't think they could loose everything but who had to loose it
all just that there was no distraction between them and the choice to face the end
or face the start.   We all get that and most on a daily basis.

If you decide you want what we have then you will follow the suggestions. If
you decide not, you will continue running your own show. Either way we know
where you're at and where you can end up by the choice you make.

(((((hugs))))) smile

Dakota · Senior Member

.How can I feel sorry for myself when he needs help?? He almost ruined my self loathing...ALMOST. I'm home now and am being reminded how she tried to work on things in the past and now that I'm trying...it's too late. Sucks to be me, I guess. Going to take a shower and get ready for tomorrow. If she's ready to walk away, as much as it hurts, I can't stop it. I don't thik she can kick me out.?. I haven't done anything wrong, except take her excuses away.

This is your processing of a situation that is NOT unique!

The process is textbook, just like so much in our lives.

By helping others, you are helping yourself.

The only thing your "sober" friend did was remind you that we put ourselves in our own predicaments. After a time we see the fally in our old decrepit system.

You can continue to live your life as though it were up to your wife to make things right or you can begin by beginning. Treat her like a distant friend, but no demands. The adjustments can happen for yourself when you can put away the blame game and the pity party we all love to wallow in!! Seeking out your friends that are sober, helping them to be sober, going to meetings, church etc the things that improve will be your best solutions.

Respect in our lives is earned.

Give thanks in prayer and ask for guidance and do it right! Let go of the things you cannot change (Serenity Prayer) and stick to the work of sobriety and honesty!

kkotz401 · Senior Member

When times get tough, I always say a pray and remain positive. It helps me to get through it. Staying sober is honestly one of the best things I have every done. It has given me a great clarity and the ability to think for myself. Drive and determination is what you need. Talk to a sponser. I am sorry things aren't going well for you but you have to battle through the darkness to get to the light. Keep at it.

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

MDC,
Please take the time to reread the above few posts that reference similar situations to yours. People DO make it through what you are going through! Not only do they make it through, but they end up happier than they were and with a life of dignity. I especially want you to focus on Dakota's statement that as much as this feels unique, it is NOT unique. If you research the boards you will find your story is standard, with mild differences and that people have gone on to much better things by following the program. They find better, sober, soulmates. Sometimes, after a long period of trust and sobriety, couples can heal their wounds. Anything is possible if you are following the program and trusting that your higher power will guide you if you give up yourself to your HP and forget about social statis, what people think, etc, etc. You made it another day! You helped a buddy in distress, even it was you who were down! BRAVO!!! Do you not see how your HP guided you to that to show you that you are not alone??? Your story was put before me to shore up my faith! I do not think you are doing such a bad job--I think you are doing great. Just make it through today.

toni baloney · Senior Member

Hi Mark,
have been away from computer for a few days, But I did want to ask you about something, you sound like you are going through the Denial Phase of Grief, disbelief that this is happening, I think that is one symptom, But have you thought at all about contacting A Grief Counselor, Losing a Spouse thru a Separation or Divorce is just like losing someone that is now gone.

A good Grief Couselor could really help you to understand the Grief Cycle, it has about five phases to it, and I used one once when an old friend had suddenly, out of nowhere, committed suicide, I was spinning and spinning and spinning, could not stop crying, and my thoughts were at times so irrational. And the Grief Courselor was amazing, she helped me understand so much of the Process. It did not make the hurting stop, but when I understood the Process, it really REALLY helped me to know that this was a temporary, and the worst phaseof that Cycle.

Just another thought to all the great advice you have been give.
A Big Fat Hug to you, Mark

Toni

PS, I still see you as a winner in this whole thing, no matter what. Look at how you are allowing us to love you, until you can love Mark, that Takes Courage Mark, and you have that, you can't see that, but we can.

My Prayers to you too dear

Sacrifice · Veteran Member

Hello MDC, I'm Carla amd 16 months ago I felt just like you! oh my gosh I had 4-5 relapses(not bragining) just trying to help you understand what I am saying. It was at one time so hard for me to drive by a convenant store and not stop, I felt like I had lost a piece of my body,my life, I was so tired of hurting myself and everyone around me. My 14 yr old was never physically abused as was I, however the emotional and constant worring was killing him. I almost lost them both and chose to keep them and get better. Was it difficult this time ? NO it was not, but you know what I did, I went into detox and blew a .38 and was still walking and talking. The first think was, I layed down on that horrible bed and held myself so hard even my knees and I said"GOD,please take this from me I don't want it anymore and never did not like this anyway.. I cried and I'm telling you I had no shakes coming down from the alcohol level, and here I am today. I'm happy now, I love my life today and I promise you that you wull to, it may take some time but you are doing so much by all your posts. Maybe hit some more meetings. I learn something everyday drom someone and today you touched ny heart. Hang in there....the grass is greener on this side of the world. The things that you are losing right now may be gods plan for you yo make your mark now! Keep working, I believe and have faith in you!!!!!!!!!!