law enforcement in AA

Jason J · Veteran Member

law enforcement in AA

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Welcome to MIP, Jason & well done in your 9mths. I'm glad you're enjoying your sobriety & not letting anything stand in the way of your recovery. I don't have any ESH to share re your situation but being in the support services myself I often wonder what will happen with my anonymity if someone one 'the other side of the fence' comes in. We operate within a system that has expectations around authority, etc which in the field of recovery are completely leveled & side-stepped, which is great, but obviously we have a job to do too which under the current social climate makes some boundaries in this way quite strange.

Maybe one day in the future, the revolution of recovery will mean none of this matters & we can share our honesties & truths without these worries but for now I can see why you'll go out of your way to share as any of us like too fully in a meeting. Of course, there is some stuff we prefer to share in a one to one anyway but it always feels good to me if I can put principles before personalities & share as my HP would wish me to on any given day in any given company. I don't know how useful any of this might be to you but I'm sure the more worldy, practical & down to earth amongst us will be able to oofer you something helpful.

I hope you get some of what you need from sharing with us here too. MIP is a lovely supplement in my sobriety! Danielle x

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

hi Jason, and welcome to the board. Small town issues (and Islands) seem to be amongst the toughest obstacles.
Kudos for driving the extra miles for your sobriety, it will pay off. Remember that having a drinking problem is not against the law and so you shouldn't feel traumatized by the fact that you are a recovering alcoholic. You're a human and this is a part of your humaness. Just because you sit in meetings with folks that are in trouble with the law, and even ones that you may have had contact with in you profession, so what? We park our outside titles and possitions at the door and address out common problem alcoholism. You shouldn't be in danger of losing your job like a Doctor would, be grateful for that. The thing that you perceive as a problem may turn out to be and extraordinary opportunity to help others, the ones that you're feeling uncomfortable with in the meetings. Try and be open minded and realize that your higher power works in ways (through people) that you might not understand.

I grew up in a Catholic environment, going to Catholic schools and was fairly traumatized by Priests and Nuns, not so much by what they did but my perceptions of them and their seeming inhumaness (word?). I dreaded confession and this made that thought of doing the 4th and 5th steps a daunting task, if not impossible. I got to the point where I "was willing to go to any lengths for my sobriety" and wrote my 4th step. I was not feeling comfortable with my sponsor and was talking to my Mother (who is about 13 years ahead of me in the program) about what to do. She suggested that I do my 5th step with a Catholic Priest, that she knew that was in AA for 24 years (and I knew as he had married me to my x-wife). I immediately felt terrified and parked the idea for a month. I too was frequently in trouble with the law as a teenager (on probabation many times) and had serious athority figure issues. Finally I had this 4th step completed and hadn't come up with any other option. So I gathered my courage and called to ask him. He accepted and it went very well over two evenings. In the process I lost my fears of Priests and athority figures. I could see the same thing happening with you a in the near future sponsoring one of these people on probabation or otherwise in trouble with the law in the spirit on anonymity.

Dean

Jason J · Veteran Member

Thanks for the replies. I've thought a lot about the fact that this may be something I'm expected to overcome. For now I will drive to other meetings and continue attending local ones occasionaly as an observer mostly. Hopefully after I get some more time under my belt I'll feel mroe comfortable in the local group.

eastcoastscott · Senior Member

Hi Jason,

Welcome to our little corner of the world, our break away from the madness out there! I can relate to your issue. I work for a PD as a civilian (dispatcher) and know all about social interactions between the public and members. I sponsor a cop who is in the same predicament as you. I agree with others in that traveling to another area may be your only solution. At meetings nobody needs to know where we work and in fact just telling them we work for the city seems to suffice. The fact is, we need our meetings and can't ever look for excuses not to go as that can be fatal for sure. May suck, bet we all have to overcome absolutely every obstacle...as in "go to any length to get it". Best of luck and keep coming back.

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha Jason...you will arrive at a higher level of practice of this program over time.
Time is all we got and time to practice is what works best if not only. What helped
me alot in early recovery was to learn to let go of differences and work with the
similarities. When I did that it didn't matter to me who anyone else in the room
was or what they did for a living. That they could help me get and stay sober was
of utmost importance. I let go of the differences and stayed with the similarities.
Another thing that I came to realize was that sooner or later I was going to have
no need for fear if I wanted Spiritual or any growth in the program. When fear use
to attack me I practiced inspite of it. Eventually I was free of it.   It will come in
time.   Maybe the acronym for fear that helped me so much will also help you.
F(alse) E(vidence) A(ppearing) R(eal).   The thoughts and feelings that drove my
fear were not real.

I wish you well in your recovery journey for all the days you practice it. In support.
(((((hugs)))))

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

I felt some shame admitting alcoholism and being a therapist to kids on a substance abuse unit. I basically figure now, thank god I woke up. I know I did a good job then, but I do a much better one now. Whatever anyone thinks, if a person is in the rooms of AA, they should respect everyone else in it as well. I would much rather deal with a friend of Bill W. cop than an active drunk one...hence, something to feel proud of rather than worried about.

toni baloney · Senior Member

Hi There Jason,

Have been thinking for a few days on how to respond to this Post.

First, I wanted to mention that so many meetings, end with, "What you see and hear here, stays here." I have always loved that when hearing it, and have always tried my best to honor it.

Secondly, that "Anonimity is the Spiritual Foundation of this Program."
Also one of my very favorites.

But for today, they might appear just a little too atherial to you, as I do know for a fact that some folks do not practice these too much, fortunately they are in the very small numbers. So go to that meeting that takes a while to get to, sounds like you just feel more comfortable there.

You sound like you have a lot of commitment in you, that is the main thing.

Just a funny afterthought I wanted to add, that for me, I was such an extremely co-depentant woman, that for about the first three years, if not longer, IF I ever saw anyone in a Meeting room that I found myself attracted to, my rule was, and it was a firm rule, never, no matter what, go back to that meeting, find another one. Then thank goodness I was getting some good Coda Recovery in me, so it stopped being an issue. Certainly not a serious one like yours, but it does relate to needing to be at a meeting where we are feeling comfortable.

One thing, I wanted to ask you, have you looked into Private Meeting for Law Enforcment officers, Paramedics, and Healthcare workers??? maybe they are out there???

Hope you get the answers you are looking for, and Welcome to this Board.

Had to come back, forgot to say CONGRATULATIONS ON 9 MONTHS!!!! Awesome.

My Best to You,
Toni

-- Edited by toni baloney on Friday 15th of May 2009 04:44:21 PM

Jason J · Veteran Member

Thanks Toni and others for responding. I am heading out on an overnight motorcycle trip and have mapped out meetings in the area I'm heading to. Travel meetings have been the best I've attended in the last 9 months. The local meetings all end with "What you see and hear here, stays here. Unfortunately I know that is not allways the case. I'm still pretty gun shy from going to my first one, I put it off until I had 30 days but forced myself because I knew I needed to and was proud to recieve my first coin. I work in a correctional facility (county jail). The meeting ended with a guy storming out after his innapropriate joke was questioned by someone else. Two days later he ends up in our jail suffering from bi-polar issues and yells in front of other inmates and staff "I'll see you at an AA meeting when I get out and kick your ass". Not a great expreience but I kept coming back (not to that particular meeting) and the neat thing is I am very committed to the program and my sobriety.

I hope someday to feel more comfortable in local meetings and hope I can have a positive impact on others, it beats seeing them in a bar or at the liquor store.

I do a lot of reading between meetings and this forum has been great. Thanks everyone.

berthaboatwright · Member

Jason, I know exactly where you are comming from I'm a police officers wife. When ive discussed going to AA meetings he's been against it for exactly those reasons you mentioned. It's very difficult being in our postions because people know you wherever you go. Good idea to drive an hour to another town these things keep me hopeful.

Andy O · Newbie

Hi Jason--

I'm new here but was drawn to your post because I'm a retired police officer and alcoholic. I found AA before there were any law enforcement AA groups (and there are still very few).

I just wanted to reassure you of this--I attended regular AA meetings while I was still an active officer and am glad I did. I had some of the same reluctance and fear you did, but put my faith in AA. I'm glad I did. First, I found members were interested in sobriety, not about each other's occupations. My recovery was far more important than my pride and I put everything into. Had anyone given me a "hard time" over being a cop, I know the fellowship the same as if someone was harrassed for being a doctor or a ditch digger.

I knew what I would say if someone I arrested "accused me" in court (a common fear among officers when it comes to AA). First, I would be honest and say, "Yes, I'm a proud recovering alcoholic." I figured the judge might say, "So am I" and I would win the jury for my honesty.

Being seen at an AA meeting and recognized is far better than being drunk in a bar and being recognized as an officer.

Bottom line--my recovery was more important than my badge.

Finally, I never spent time talking about my job, anyway--my "career" with the bottle was more than enough. The rest I took to a therapist :)

Put your fears aside, Jason. Trust the program, whether it's a cop's meeting or regular AA meetings. It's your life. It breaks my heart to see cops (or lawyers, or nurses, or salespeople--anyone!) allow such fears to stand between them and recovery.

Take it from another cop.

Andy O

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

Hi Jason - I understand your anxiety and your need to go to meetings where it's easier to be anonymous. Going to any lengths sometimes means going the miles too.

Where I live there are several out of towners, who attend in a neighbouring county to make it easier to preserve their anonymity and I respect that.

I refer back to what I was told when I said I wouldn't go to Sheffield or Wath Meetings because I used to live there - anyone you see there is there for the same reason you are. Do I really think that people in Sheffield and Wath didn't know I was a piss artist? Anyone who breaks my anonimity from seeing me at a meeting, will have to break their own by saying where they were and finally, don't worry too much about saying something that might get repeated in the Market Tavern - no-one believes a drunk. Yellow Card - nobody came and those that did said nowt.

Eric M · Newbie

I'm glad that I found someone blogging on this subject. I have 37 days Sober. I spent the first 35 under sheer willpower, but I came to realize that I could not live sober without the help of AA. I am a police officer and my inherent lack of trust has kept me from getting a civilian sponsor thus far. I know that I need a sponsor and I haven't talked with any other cops in AA, therefore, I am in quite a predicament. I do not feel like having a drink right now, so that is good. I really want to find other police officers in the Seattle/Tacoma area who are in AA, as they may alleviate my fears of talking honestly. It may be hard for those outside the profession to understand, but some things need to be shared with a trusted confidant who will understand, not judge, and offer relevant advice. I have told one person of my profession and he is the closest thing I have to a sponsor. Tonight, I barely made the meeting because I was working. I called him and told him that I needed to go home and switch out my vehicles. He suggested bringing my work vehicle to the meeting. Needless to say I did not do that and I showed up on time. After the meeting he asked if I brought my cruiser, I replied that I don't drive a cruiser. He asked if I drove an undercover vehicle and I stated "yes." He asked if I sneak up on people at night and I replied yes. He smiled at this. I understand people's fascination with police officers and their outside looking in view, but I really need someone on the inside to talk with. Thanks for reading.

Eric

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Hi Eric M, ... ... ...

Welcome to MIP ... I have known 2 police officers in my time in AA and I DO think anonymity is vitally important in this circumstance ... they both came from outside our area because they too, feared word getting out in the areas they patrolled ... I do know that in certain professions, they have anonymous AA groups not open to the general public ... such as for pilots, doctors, public officials, police officers, etc. ... ... ... If done discretely, you may want to inquire with your 'human resources' (or whatever your employee group calls it), and ask or inquire if such a group exists for the police force you work with ... simply say you have a friend on the force that may benefit from such a group and you'd like to get more info ...

Don't let them pin you down on specifics ... stay anonymous from mentioning anyone's name, namely, your own ... OR you could make the effort to attend some meetings outside your patrol area and keep your career choice out of the discussions ... ... ... Caution ... what is shared in an AA room, stays in the AA room ... a lot like doctor/patient and lawyer/client protocol ... and what you hear should not be used later against someone who shares things under the condition of anonymity ... This is the foundation of all our Traditions ...

To find meetings near you, just go to the AA web site and type in meetings and city, state ... AND keep coming here for support on your efforts ... We CAN help save you your career if you'll let us help you ... good luck ...

Take Care and God Bless,
Pappy

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Welcome Eric! Yes - please do keep us posted!

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

This is a really tough problem for the LE personnel and for AA. The use of special private meetings by class of job is a poor compromise.

Incidently, there is no confidentiality protection in AA under the law. It is much much different than a legal client/lawyer or patient/doctor relationship.

Recent criminal cases such as Jamie Letson in Alabama and Bob Ryder in Maine resulted in full disclosure by AAers of AA sponsees' confession of criminal acts. No AA sponsor/sponsee privilege was recognized. Nor was any AAer/fellow AAer privilege recognized.

Not a good idea to divulge commission of serious crimes to fellow AAers unless the statute has run.

Not a good idea to listen to such disclosures either.

-- Edited by Tanin on Sunday 2nd of September 2012 09:13:54 PM

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Thank you mr. anonymous, for that clarification :P.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Eric M wrote:
I really want to find other police officers in the Seattle/Tacoma area who are in AA, as they may alleviate my fears of talking honestly.
Eric

Eric, there is an LE meeting in Seattle, listed here. You have to call the phone number in this link for location.

http://www.policesuicideprevention.com/id24.html

WolfRider · Newbie

I have just joined this group and I was in Law Enforcement when I first walked in these doors. It is great that you found AA and also doing what I did at first, going to other areas for meetings.