After 60 days, back to 1

MDC · Senior Member

After 60 days, back to 1

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

I have an am struggling with some of the same things Mark. For many of us, we don't spend years being drunk without somebody enabling us, taking care of us, and becoming our whole world. It's very hard to face yourself and find your worth apart from everyone else, including your wife, kids, parents. The simple fact is that Mark is worthy all by himself. There is no rule book that says you have to have an intact marriage and family to be a worthwhile person. I have made the mistake of putting my whole identity into another person so many times and have had to start over again with nothing and no friends of my own. To a degree I am still engaging in this behavior of codependency and it is very hard to break. A worse disease to me than my alcoholism (though the two are really tied together). I have 7 plus months sober, but I still can't stand being by myself after having split from a 7 year relationship. This is the first time I've ever lived on my own and im 36. I don't know how long it will take for me to enjoy just being by myself and to be comfortable with not absolutely needing someone else to feel worthy, entertained, loved...etcetera...but I recognize it's a work in progress and I'm not going to go backwards no matter what. AA is my family too and nobody can take that away from me. Just like nobody can take my sobriety away either. This is the perfect time for you to submerge yourself in your own meetings and your own therapy. That is what I have been doing and it's working for the most part. Anyhow, you are not alone in feeling alone and in feeling that your life might not have meaning if the people in it aren't there like you want them to be. 70 percent of marriages end in divorce Mark. You are not so unique here. How do other people get through these situations? It sucks hard, but it's not the end of the world or your world. You just have a disease where your coping skill to deal with situations like this is to get drunk. You stated "it's all willpower." If that was the case, you wouldn't be drunk. This is your disease and you need to be strong now, reach out to others, and put one foot in front of the other. Anyhow, you are loved because I know how you feel. I did equate the break up of my last relationship with death, threatened suicide several times, and got drunk over it until the consequences started stacking up worse and worse. Don't fall into that trap please.

Mark

Doll · MIP Old Timer

Well, Hun, Shit happens! I'm glad you made it back, as some do not..... Think about where you went 'wrong' -- your congratulating yourself on 60 days a few days back when technically you didn't have 60 days. Maybe you didn't get drunk, but you drank! An alcoholic can't do that. It never works. It may work once or twice or even for a few months, as I somehow managed it for 6 ! But it's never forever. We end up drunk, at some point, every single time! Alcoholism is progressive.... After all a pickle can never be a cucumber again!

Abstinence is the key. Why not try some AA meetings? Get honest. That you can't drink just one or socially or whatever.........

Prayers going up for ya.

Big Ol Southern

((((hugs)))

Jen

p/s - wherever you go, there YOU are! Time to change your inside, not your outside.

-- Edited by Doll on Wednesday 6th of May 2009 09:18:05 PM

MDC · Senior Member

I don't know...Thanks... I'mj ust so done. I've tried. I just don't know. Why can't things be easier. I know you are right, I just don't know that I care anymore...not that I really did when I was drunk. I just need to sleep it off, You all can beat me up tomorrow.

One final thought, life without love, isn't life.

m

Dave Harm · Senior Member

I firmly believe that recovery has to be painful to work. My first sobriety lasted five and a half years and it was easy - to easy.

My second one was to painful. I've often have said at meetings that I feel blessed and cursed at the same time. Why? Because I can remember my last drunk like it was yesterday. And I never want to go through that much pain again. So what did I do?

I didn't "keep" anything from my first sobriety. It didn't work - why try it again. I went to meetings and I listened and shared and read the Big Book and learned some more.

What I know now is that I have one more real good barn-burner drunk in me, but I don't know if I have the strength to start over again. So for me one drink is waaaayyyy to many.

I will say, even if it is a message board, I admire you for your strength to be honest with us and admit your slip. I don't know if I could do that.

And on your comment about life without love isn't life. For me, I first had to love myself before trying to love someone else.

And finally, if it was will power this board wouldn't exist.

In my thoughts and prayers,
Dave

-- Edited by Dave Harm on Wednesday 6th of May 2009 09:45:53 PM

-- Edited by Dave Harm on Wednesday 6th of May 2009 09:51:26 PM

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Live without love isn't life. This is why you need to work on loving yourself. As they said the minute I walked in my first meeting. Let us love you until you can love yourself. I hear surrender in your statements. I hear "I am done." It needs to be surrender to your disease and I am done drinking. We aren't here to judge you, or beat you up. You are doing that to yourself worse than anyone else here could. If you open up and really put yourself out there in meetings Mark, it will work. You wont be the first person to bawl their way through an AA share. I did it for a whole month. Any way you look at it, AA is still here for you. Take it and run with it.

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

I slipped after my first two months of sobriety & then every two weeks until my 4th & final slip was the nail in the coffin I needed. I wasn't expecting these slips & sobriety had been easy on the pinkcloud of my first attempt. Each slip taught me something crucial & the last one came with the message that I realised I wasn't even sober even between slips.

There was something up with my thinking I couldn't put my finger on so I upped my meetings, opened my ears & started doing as was suggested, took a sponsor & the next time I felt unsafe towards a slip I called her up & got to a meeting. These were the beginning tools of my recovery & what I still use today 2.5 years on into sobriety. It can & will happen for you, Mark.

Don't worry. You're not alone & I know you want this. Do whatever it takes to stay sober & do it for you. Earlier on in your posts I remember you mentioning instances where you put your family before your recovery. I know how dearly you love, want & need them but, anything you put in front of your recovery you can lose.

Your sobriety is worth these initial efforts. Concentrate on you for now & you'll have more to give in the long run.. Your family will trust you more in the future too if they can see how much effort you're prepared to invest for your success. But, Do It For You! :) You can live sober, just like we are 1Day@aTime so get back into your sobriety saddle & ride on out of this slip.

This is a part of your experience, strength & hope. Take it to a meeting & tell them what has happened. You will be loved, like you're being loved here until you learn how to love yourself & can pass on that gift to others too. Until then, stay in Today. Do what you need to do Today & keep up your positive attitude. You can do this & you will ~ 1Day@aTime, Danielle x

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Today is a new day Mark. The suggestions and shared experience haven't changed
and it was that, the suggestions and shared experience from other recoverying
alcoholics that I had to turn myself over to and not get in the way of. Your share
reminds me of when as a newcomer I realized I couldn't trust my own thinking and
my own behaviors and had to surrender to the program or consider a permanent
solution to a temporary problem. Hell I was already drinking my way to that, had
already experienced several overdoses and still know the taste of "gun metal
blue". What I was doing wasn't working. I needed to then and still do now need
to do what works for others.

The hotline number to AA is still in the white pages of your phone book. If you
need a ride to the meeting almost certainly someone will come to take you. If
you need a drunk to teach you an honest program that drunk will certainly be
at the meeting and some members will call that drunk "sponsor".

Your program isn't working. Are you ready to try AA? How badly? I wanted
recovery more than I wanted sex when I got here. I turned down the sex and
stayed in the meeting rooms. Being humble is being teachable. Being humiliated
is the consequence of trying to create my own recovery.

Keep coming back.

Jerry

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Don't feel bad Mark, I had 60 days 6 or 7 times, along with 30 days a number of times in the 2 years it took, of steadily going to meetings, before I "got it". Each time I'd relapse, I'd go to a meeting and pick up another white chip and pick up a couple more of the "suggestions" that I had heard were keeping other people sober like daily meetings, working the steps with a sponsor, making friends in the program and hanging out with them, getting a home group and letting those people get to know me, sitting up front or at the table near the leader of the meeting and sharing at every daily meeting (my sponsor was big on that), going to step meetings, taking a service job in a meeting.... During those 2 years, I resisted doing most of these things. I had created a custom program for me, that wasn't working. But it took what it took till I realized that I needed to do all of those things to stay sober. My outlook on the program (and the people in the rooms) changed as I came to believe that I needed to really work at it, and make getting sober my "primary purpose". I developed or used what I was hearing in some motivational materials that I had been listening to for starting my business, to get sober. Making goals and using critical decision making skills to evaluate what I was doing in my daily life. I'd focus on my primary purpose of staying sober (as my goal) and every decision that came up, I'd ask myself if doing this would take me closer to or further away from my goal of continuous sobriety.

I also focused on where my drinking was taking me and what loses it had dealt me, and the loses that loomed on the horizon. I wasn't afraid of dying, but I knew that I was losing my mind and that scared me. I also wasn't too fond of going to jail, losing my drivers license (which would cause me to lose my career) and ultimately put me out on the street. I also had a 2 year old son that I didn't want to grow up with a drunk for a dad like I had. My marriage was over and my x-mother in law wanted nothing more that to keep me from seeing my son by getting my visitation revoked. Drinking and driving with my son in the car (or getting a DUI) would do that very quickly.

It's not how many times a man falls down, it's how many times he gets back up that counts. Get busy Mark, getting sober is a process not an event.

Dean

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 7th of May 2009 06:02:50 AM

toni baloney · Senior Member

Good Morning Mark,

Well so much has been said here, but here's my input. I believe this Relapse started back when you picked up that "just one beer" . That is just my opinion, but i watched a woman get married that had over 10 years of Sobiety, and she made a decision to have "just one Champaine Toast" at her Wedding, about three weeks later she was off and running in drinking everyday. It took her a lot longer than you to get back into the rooms of AA, and ask for help.

"THE DRINK IS THE LAST PART OF A SLIP" There is a great book, by Gorsky on Relapse Prevention. A wealth of information is in that book on how do we prevent ourselves from relapsing.

I raised my hand as a newcomer at a Friday Meeting for Newcomers, every Friday nite for 3 years, well on the Fridays that I was sober enough to get there. The woman were all very loving and supportive, but there was this guy Frank, that from across the room, that yelled at me, "YOU DON"T DRINK, NO MATTER WHAT". It kind of embassassed me, well a little, but somehow many years later when I lived in Seattle and was looking for a final way to end my life, it was his Words that I remembered and inside I said, "Thank you Frank". I get it, now, 5 years later.
When I returned to my homestate I ran into him and thanked him.

Sobriety has to and must come before anything, person, place or thing, when you hear that this Program is a Selfish Program, that, to me, is what it means.

Hope you will take the time to pick up a copy of that Book by Gorksy, and study it, he is one of the most respected writings in the field of Relapse.

It is about surrendering to YOUR BEING POWERLESS , when it comes to Alcohol, absolutely NOTHING to do with will power,

Hope you are feeling well enough to get to a meeting as soon as you can. Alcoholics are people that cannot not drink, but by the Grace of God, that leads us to AA, only then can we, with that Grace of God, stay sober, just one day at a time.

Wishing that for you, you deserve Recovery. as we all do.
You take care of Mark.

Toni

PS, If a whole paragraph is underlined, sorry, I was just trying to underline one word, will get the hang of this eventually. Went back and tried to fix it, think it got worse, oh well, sorry.

-- Edited by toni baloney on Thursday 7th of May 2009 10:15:43 AM

Jane05 · MIP Old Timer

Hey MDC - Man, I don't want to go back to where you are. You have helped me keep it green today. Staying sober, especially at first is really hard work. I came in the room with the gift of desperation, I was willing to do cartwheels if you had ask me to, that is until I started feeling better. But I did finally learn that I had to put my sobriety First and if that meant getting away from family and whoever or whatever so be it. I really only have two people who would even talk to me when I entered AA and I still had a lot to lose.

What is working for me?

Surrender

Taking suggestions and trying them

Meetings

Sponsor, which equals taking the Steps

I work hard on my sobriety (everyday) - I have to if I want to keep it.

(((Hugs and Prayers)))

MDC · Senior Member

Thanks, everyone. I'm just having a really hard time now. Maybe I don't want this as much as I thought, but I'm still here, still trying. I don't understand how things can swing so quickly. My posting about my "60 days" is on the same page as this...How can things be so good and 2 days later, so bad. I've been though so much in 60 days, and didn't drink. Then 2 days later, no "major" problems, or atleast no new problems, and it's the "end of the world." I'm going to try to get my head straight and move forward from here.

Day 1.

jonijoni1 · MIP Old Timer

... the horse is still standing there, and saddle is still on it. Get back up and get going again. Happens to a lot of us. Not staying in that mudpile is the key to you getting back on track. You drank because you are an alcoholic whose disease is not treated to the point where you could stay sober when you picked up that drink. Get back up, dust yourself off, FORGIVE yourself, let AA friends forgive you FOR you.... and get some more good "treatment" from AA.

(((((((((hugs))))))

BGG · Senior Member

Dear MDC:

Doll alluded to this in her post above, but one of the things we learn from the book entitled "Alcoholics Anonymous" is that the disease of alcoholism has three components: (1) a mental obsession; (2) a physical allergy that amounts to a physical craving for alcohol; and (3) a spiritual malady (sickness). We don't have to have a particular reason to drink; it can be sunny or cloudy, we can be happy or sad.

If you are an alcoholic, even that one beer you had during the 60 days, or that wine tasting "sample" you say that you didn't really like is enough to set off the physical allergy, setting up a craving that makes you drink more--even if it's not on that exact same day.

So, we who admit we are alcoholics believe (based on our own experience) that we cannot drink even one drop of alcohol. Through the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, regular (daily when we're new) meetings, and a sponsor to guide us, we are able to gain access to a Power greater than ourselves that removes the mental obsession that would otherwise cause us to pick up the first drink. And then, we learn how to live sober, facing life's challenges as they come, and finding more and more joy each day.

I encourage you to make it as soon as possible to a face-to-face meeting, get some phone numbers of A.A. members there, be honest about what happened, and take it one day at a time, one hour at a time, one minute at a time, one second at a time. All any of us have is the day that we're in in terms of our sobriety: yesterday is gone and tomorrow hasn't gotten here yet. That's why we each day we have to focus on our spiritual condition and our sobriety.

Keep coming back; A.A. really does work.

Love,

BGG

kkotz401 · Senior Member

I'm sorry you had a relapse. Just try and stay positive and get back in the saddle.

toni baloney · Senior Member

Hi MDC,

Just thinking about you. Hope your feeling a whole lot better today,

And please keep it mind that according to Gorsky, the author I wrote about, that his words are that Relapse is just a charactistic of Alcoholism, especially in the first 6 months, and lessens after that time.

But as you know many people Relapse, after miscellaneous periods of time. Just hope you are not being tooooo hard on yourself, and as someone said, horse is saddled, just jump back on.

The record is still the same. 24 hours a day, so if you woke up before me today, you are ahead of me.

Hope to see you here again, whenever you feel like letting us know how you are doing.

A Big Hug to you,
Toni

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

MDC, drastic mood swings are COMPLETELY characteristic of early sobriety. You should expect that. I know you have family stuff going on that is realistically upsetting at times, but your brain and body is going to put you through some crazy mood swings even when there is nothing wrong. It will make up some crap for you to be upset over so that you can drink. If that doesn't work, it will make up some crap for you to be overly happy about (pink cloud would be the term) so you might think the problem is gone or you should celebrate with a drink. This is why you need to go after sobriety with everything you have in you. That means don't drink NO MATTER WHAT. 90 meetings in 90 days is suggested for a reason. During that first 3 months you need AA on such a schedule that the message to not drink stays fresh enough each day to not override the powerful, cunning, and baffling parts of the disease. We arm ourselves with meetings, literature, sponsorship, fellowship, and service. You need to stock up on all 5 of these things to guard against the next relapse. The mood swings WILL come because the problem is inside of you not outside. Also, one thing I have heard discussed in meetings...the word "IF." You have to drop "IF" from anything having to do with your sobriety. That means, no "I can stay sober IF I have support from my family" or "I can stay sober IF things go my way." You might think you don't have these IFs, but it sounds like you do. Your sobriety can't be contingent upon external factors or it will always be at risk. Gradually, your relationships in AA and your improved relationships outside the rooms can help you stay sober, but they will never be the whole reason.

So...step 1 - alcohol kicks your butt every time and leads you to a pretty messed up life you don't want. step 2 - only god has a plan for you so stop fretting and trying so hard to figure it all out, stop thinking that if Mark stops drinking, X will happen and Mark will quickly be rewarded with Y...only God will determine what promises come true and when (but they will come true..you just don't know how). Step 3 - Just let it all unfold and let it happen. Let go. The sobriety ride will be bumpy for a while.

This is my personal first 3 steps analogy. I think of it like a roller coaster (especially with mood swings) and for that reason, you need to claim your seat in the rooms, and hold on to it hard because that's the only thing that's going to keep you from flying off track. Why? Because you didn't make the rollercoster, don't have power over it, and can't "manage it" on your own no matter what you do. Drinking makes the ride impossible...In fact, you can't hardly get in the seat to ride if you are drunk(Step 1). God made the roller coaster and only he knows what turns and loops are ahead and only he can help you get through them. You can pray. Imagine God is sitting in the seat next to you and you just say "help me get through this ride!" It makes it less scary and crazy (back to step 2). The seat you are sitting in is the one you claimed when you went into AA to start to ride this roller coaster better. So you grab on to that AA seat hard and let go control of pretty much everything else (step 3). You can enjoy the roller coaster ride at times because rollercoasters are exciting and fun. At other times it will be scary as hell. The ride jerks you one way when you were sure it was going to go another way. At times you will want off. You might wonder, "Why the hell did I get on this damn ride?" But don't stop holding that seat because jumping off a moving roller coaster is pretty friggin dumb right? It will kill you. Hope this helps. It was the best analogy to me, as I was overcomplicating things to start with.

eastcoastscott · Senior Member

Mark,

Don't beat yourself up like that, it puts you in the wrong frame of mind. That is the alcohol yelling at you. Let go and tell yourself that you are allowed to try again and again....and again....without judgement. Keep coming back. That little voice inside you that wants you to succeed will get stronger and stronger, trust it.

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

MDC wrote:

My life sucks, I can't blame it on alcohol, or anythig else, just me. It's too easy to say "it's an illness, a disease" It's a f*****g lack of will power!

Biker bill replies:-
I recall the lengths I would go to to get a drink - that showed immense will power. The plain fact is that if you are an alcoholic, you cannot stop and stay stopped by your own efforts alone (will power)

Step One says we admitted that we were alcoholics and that our lives were unamanageable. What this means to me is 1. we - I'm not alone any ore and unamangeable - I can plot and plan and scheme all I want - if my higher power syas it's check out time, all my plans and plots are for naught!

Step 2 says .....came to believe a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity - has to be because I can't stop and stay stopped on my own efforts so there must be a higher power than can help - just like the higher power in the bottle keeps me drunk (the evil power) then there is a good power to help me stay stopped - and resotre us to sanity? well doing the same thing time after time but expecting a different result is one definition of insanity!

Step 3 says .....made a decision to turn oir will and ouir lives over to the care of God as we understood Him......

OK, summing it up, I can't, He can, Let Him.

So to go round your problem, teh solution is easy - forgive yourself, you succumbed to the evil higher power of the bottle because you didn't ask the Higher power for Help and you didn't thank teh Higher Power for the gifts you have had.

So get on your knees and say thank you to your higher power for the 60 days, say thank you for the insight, say thank you because you have fingers to type with, a mouth to speak with and ears to listen with and eyes to read with and the lesson of this latest drunk. Then ask for his help to stay sober for another day, or another hour or another five minutes. Repeat for the rest of your life, go to meetings, get a sponsor.

you need every drink you take to get to the point where you want sobriety. Stop beating yourself up, dry your tears, say your please and thank you, count your blessings and start again.

keep coming back, don't leave before the miracle happens.

-- Edited by bikerbill on Wednesday 13th of May 2009 06:26:59 AM

Dakota · Senior Member

I just saw this and want to tell you it is ok to be human. You slipped but you get right back up again.

Something about prayer in the lowest of moments... And earnest work at fixing the little probs that add up to larger ones. But just one day at a time...

Prayer sent up for you right now.

Dakota