? about god.

BillNSB · Member

? about god.

Jane05 · MIP Old Timer

Hello and Welcome!! And thank you for your honesty.

For me, when I found out that AA was not about religion, it was easier for me to find that Power greater than myself. I have friends in the Program that go to church but they do not bring up religion unless I ask. And the discussion of religion does not belong in an AA meeting. (That's in our literature)

I've been chastised for quoting parts of the Big Book, 12 and 12, and other program things, outside of a meeting, and these are the very people who sit in meetings trying to convert our members, by talking about a religious God they know.

Whoa...This is about you not me. LOL

I have found a Power greater than myself and each day it grows and changes and probably will continue to. And it sounds like you have made a good connection. The most important thing is that I have a Higer Power and that it's not me. Give yourself time, and instead of faking it till you make it, "Act as if".

Sounds like you're doing great to me!!

-- Edited by Jane05 on Saturday 25th of April 2009 07:55:57 AM

Doll · MIP Old Timer

I"d say it might benefit you to speak to a 'religious' person - paster, priest, etc.

For me, I was raised 'Christian" I believe in the God that created heaven and earth, so AA just brought me back to all of that..........

btw: Welcome to MIP

(((hugs)))

Jen

Dave Harm · Senior Member

Hi Bill,

My favorite subject with sobriety. I was raised a Catholic. Went to private school and basically was around priests and nuns most of my early years, at least till I was 18. The God that I grew up with was one to be feared. He could make my life a living hell if I didn't worship him unconditionally. Which I didn't understand. since His love for me came with conditions.

I know I would have never come to AA if it was a religion. I did not want the dogma of religion. I knew what hell was all about, I wasn't scared of it, instead I just wanted a chance at peace in this life. Then I heard a great statement, "Religion is for people who were scared of going to hell, while spirituality is for those who've been in hell."

That statement sent me on a mission to find a Higher Power of my understanding. I studied all modern religions and philosophies, both Eastern and Western thoughts. I looked at the ancient mythologies, the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, as well as Native American beliefs.

I did this because this deity would be with me for the rest of my life and I wanted Someone whom I could trust. I found It and found the perfect church to go along with It. The only problem with this church is that I'm the only member.

I guess what I'm saying is that our search for a Higher Power can take us "outside the box" and that I believe is OK.

My final quest with my search was a name. A lot of people will say at meetings that their Higher Power is God. I guess mine is too, but everyone has a preconceived idea as to who God is, so I wanted something different.

My Higher Power's name is Love. We find It through our spouse, our friends and family, we find It at meetings and everything else that is valuable in our life.

That's just my two cents, like I said it is my favorite subject in recovery...

Dave

toni baloney · Senior Member

Hi Bill and Welcome!

"I truly feel that their is some connection I have made with a force(for lack of a better term) that inspires me. Kind of like I have unlocked a portion of my brain that has never been used. I know this is assumed to be a miracle, but maybe not."

With all that has been said, ditto, A Higher Power of YOUR UNDERSTANDING.

the last thing that AA is, is a Reglious Organization.

From where I came from with this desease of alcoholism, only a force greater than myself has kept me sober for some years now. Many years ago, I heard someone say, close your eyes and imagine a Higher Power, one that would be the greatest you imagination could come to, and then, if you choose, make that your Higher Power, Some CHOOSE to call their Higher Power God, some do not. It simpy does not matter.

from how I see it, you are doing what you need to stay sober, and that is the bottom line. Step I, The acceptance, and the unmanageability in your life, when you stopped, and then Step 2, a Belief in a Power Greater than yourself could restore your sanity.

Hope that somehow everything said here will help you take that "?" out of About God.

Again, Welcome Bill

Toni....... (just one of the Miracles here)

Adding a PS. reread your post, and wanted to say, you offended NO ONE!

-- Edited by toni baloney on Saturday 25th of April 2009 12:52:02 PM

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Welcome to MIP, Bill. I love your post & I love your gratitude & appreciation for your sobriety. My understanding & faith in a Higher Power (more importantly my relationship & connection with that) is growing all the time. It's a profound journey & process for me & it's mostly to do with how I experience it but also as influenced by the inspiration I find in the rooms, in literature, in people, in all positivity in life. My Higher Power for the longest time has been Love & even that has been hard to define at times lol

I didn't know what it was exactly I thought or was trying to pray to or for. I had a profound experience (for the second time in this respect) on Easter Day & the symbolism of this made such a difference to my recovery in providing a seeming piece of the puzzle I was hoping for (You can read more in my previous post on the subject of Step12) I'm glad this happened for me as it took away some of my inner ambiguities. I do believe it is a spiritual program not a religious one.

I don't know if worship is the right word but I do continue to cultivate & work on my gratitude for the powerful things that are always happening in my life. It helps me to stay alive & I think this helps me not to need ever t take a drink also because before, life just never seemed good enough & I had to enhance it or escape it with alcohol. I'd already worshiped alcohol & continued to give my power away to it for so many years.

Now I feel more yielding to the power that is simply life, acceptance & courage. Before I could place anything specific I said my Higher Power was whatever it was, this force, I surrender to. I did find it continuously hard to do so well, before this awakening & I've still plenty of practicing to do & now it seems a lot easier cuz I'm not guessing so much ;) It says in the BB+12&12 it's helpful to resign from the debating society but I think we only realistically do this when we let go of the need to know & comprehend lol

I don't think you have to be of any particular faith. Whatever helps us to work the steps is the ultimate success & I don't think there has to be some kind of plan pre ordained. I think sometimes these theories can come about by different understandings & for me, mine is constantly developing as I do & vice versa! Keep up your good work. You're obviously doing something right. I'll love it if you can share more of your ESH in your journey. Thankyou for being here, Bill. No offence taken, Danielle x

MDC · Senior Member

Hello Bill,

I'm also fairly new here and very new to being sober. I usually don't comment on posts, it's like speaking in public to me. I don't like to speak of things that I don't understand or know much about. Somethig about your question/comment made me want to comment.

My higher power is God. I grew up in the church all my life, although I didn't live like it at all. It's easy to learn the "facts" of the bible, and to me they are facts without the quotation marks. It's alot harder to understand and feel a rellationship with God. I think it would it would be a great idea for you to study different beliefs and religions. My personal belief is that if there is no God, what is the point of anything here? Why would I not just go back to drinking? I've been sober for almost 2 months now, I had a drink the other day (just to prove to myself that I could stop at one, a VERY dangerous and stupid idea for me) What I learned is that I like to drink. I like how it tastes and I like how it makes me feel, for a while. If there is no God, there would be no other purpose in life except personal enjoyment. I would just go back to drinking.

As far as your question, "Would a deity capable of creating the universe, really need or expect so much adoration? Vanity is a human fault. Maybe it is reserved for God. Personally, this is what I'm struggling with." I believe we were created in HIS image, that's why we share the same emotions. Emotions are not bad, it's what we do with them. For example, Anger, depending on what we do with it can turn into rage, or passion. Lonliness can turn into apathy, or intimacy. It's all what we do with the feelings and emotions that matters.

Again, this is just my opinion, I know this isn't the forum for a religious discussion, but this is my answer to what you were asking. Do some research with different beliefs and religions. For me after I got back involved in a relationship with my "higher Power" (I hate that term) everything became so much clearer, and I realized there is a true purpose in life other than personal enjoyment. Not that religion is not personaly enjoyable, it is. And a person doesn't have to be a religios "nut" to believe in God. I think that is where alot of people get turned off about religion, the people that try to shove it down your throat. I'm not saying that I'm necessarly right, but it works for me. Look into it and do a little studing, it might be right for you too, maybe not. Knowledge is power, the more you learn, the better you will know if it's right for you.

MDC

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha Bill...What a great post and the same for the responses. Even with the
different thoughts and perspectives about God and how God appears to each
of us either with or without a Christian perspective one thing we can do banded
together is keep each other sober and alive out of love and compassion. I have
hear, "God is Love" about a zillion times since birth and I have come to accept
that as a part of my "picture" of God. It is true for me and also true for me is
that more recovering members of this and the Family Groups therefore mimic the
God of my understanding than I can find anywhere else. The fellowship doesn't
only have love...it to a large degree practices it!!

Here is an early program perspective that took out any anxiety about the
religious motive; "we are not a religion but if you practice these steps religiously,"
...I got the idea then and continue to practice these steps on a 24/7 basis.
Early on in recovery lots of outside the program religious types told me that "I had
been born again." They identified with my profound changes but were very
confused that I still claimed a fundamental religion of my birth still.   They didn't
and still don't get it. They don't have to...I was the one that needed AA and not
initially to get a religious outlook for recovery.

I don't argue religion nor do I now compare theologic understanding. I have my
understanding and was brought to it from just where you are now...questions
with an open mind. If in face HP is a Higher Power then HP can use everything
and anything to present anyone with an accepted understanding of HP and also
the relationship with the questioner.   This is what happened to me. If I want to
dwelve into ancient understanding of the historical HP then I go to anything about
the indigenious peoples of the planet. Their understanding of "God" does not
come from research and new understanding. Their understanding arrived when
their race came into being and their understanding is unchanged and cultural.

Today my acceptance and understanding is from study of those people, tribes,
nations etc. Because of that my HP is more real and active than I ever have
understood before this spiritual program of recovery.   I will reread this post
and all of the responses again very soon.

Mahalo (Thanks) (((((hugs))))) smile

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

I have a problem with religion, I've done some God Shopping and not found a religion that clicks with me. Fortunately, AA isn't about religion it's about spirituality.

I was in a meeting a couple of weeks ago and one of the old timers shared that if a person keeps drinking when they want to stop and can't by their own efforts, then only a power greater than themselves can help them stop. And there is as good a definition of a higher power as there is.

Add that to what my sponsor told me - there is a God and it's not you....

Add that to what I tell my sponsees.........there is a God and it's not you and it's not me nor any living thing, 'cos they all die sooner or later.........

Add that to another old timer I know who still has G.O.D as his higher power....G.O.D.stands for Group Of Drunks (AA as a fellowship) and Good Orderly Discipline.........an example of God as you understand him in a practical sense.

Add that towhat my Dad said to me as he was close to death,a lifelong unbeliever, he said to me ' it's true what they say, there's no non believers on your death bed.....'
Hope that helps.

TLH · MIP Old Timer

MDC wrote:
My personal belief is that if there is no God, what is the point of anything here? Why would I not just go back to drinking?
MDC

I'm for all intensive purposes a Buddhist. I don't believe in god in the traditional Western sense. When I drink I cause harm- to myself, to those who love me, to people around me- not physical harm per se but more the effects of my actions over time. I don't believe there is any paternal entity watching over me, but I feel an obligation to cause as little suffering as possible.

That is why one person who doesn't believe in god doesn't just go back to drinking.

Aloha- Toby

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Oh hey- funny I initially forgot this: one of our old timers at my Monday night meeting got up and spoke on the subject of faith yesterday evening. There had been several people up there besmirching anyone who worships anything other than their particular brand of faith, and this old timer got up there and said that he doesn't care what brand of god you have- just that you have faith.

On my steps two and three I had to really get into things and reassess my own beliefs and put them into a context that would convey to my Roman Catholic sponsor that I'm through with my work on those steps (this time around.) One thing (huge thing) that I came up with is that I don't control everything, that I don't need to control everything, that I shouldn't want to control everything. Being a guy who spends a lot of his free time trying to live more in the moment, I would have thought I'd have gotten that quicker than I did. I am not responsible for me being here- I'm just here. Doesn't matter what entity is responsible for me being here- the point is that it isn't me. What I think put me here doesn't matter- that's always going to be subject to scrutiny by others, and I have to just believe (that's why they call it faith)- the important thing isn't the name or the brand, it's that I do indeed possess some faith. Took me 40 years to get that through my thick skull.

Another item that came up very close to the same time came from an analogy I used about me and flying in airplanes. I was in an accident that left me pretty mucked up emotionally for quite some time. Flying was a struggle for me for a bit, until I accepted that it's out of my hands- if it's my time to go, it just is- whether I'm in a truck or a plane or on the back of a camel- I don't control that either. And that was my "faith" analogy. I don't worry too much about money or the future or what's going to happen tomorrow- I have faith that things will work out. I always have had that faith, and things always have worked out.

Aloha again- Toby

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Thanks Toby, an awesome explanation of your workings of those steps through your belief system. That should work for anyone that has doubts to say the least.

It goes along very well with my understanding of the need to have a spiritual approach and a HP of your own understanding. That is, that this "ego maniac with low self esteem" isn't the center of the universe, and something else is.

Another way I've heard it explained is that there are an infinite number of things that are more powerful than me, Alcohol for one, a freight train is another and putting the first drink into me is a bout as safe as stepping or driving in front of a moving freight train. Living in Florida, I also have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, with or without me watching.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Wednesday 29th of April 2009 12:09:13 PM