I'm not ready to go around saying sorry for all of the bad things I did or to let go of resentments towards people I dislike. A lot of those people deserve to be resented and disliked and they deserved whatever bad things I may have done to them. I just don't see what becoming some spineless jellyfish who has to grovel at the feet of some douchebag/s has to do with my sobriety. I haven't had one person give me a reasonable explanation for why I should run around forgiving or begging for the forgiveness of people I loathe.
Wow, that's no easy task, not sure where to start. If there was just a way to just TRUST that letting go is the best way, without questioning it too much. That worked for me, I wanted explanations for everything but realized that if I just did what was suggested, just maybe I'd get answers eventually. Sort of a "fake it till ya make it" way to do things. Trust me, it does not mean we have to be "spineless jellyfish" we are in fact rising way above the pettiness and drama of others. You must admit, it would be way better to not have to be pissed off at people all the time, right? Food for thought anyway!
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Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. ~Buddha
"A lot of those people deserve to be resented and disliked and they deserved whatever bad things I may have done to them."
I feel this way a lot, too. Like I want them to feel the pain that I'm feeling, they deserve it! But I am pretty confident that holding onto the anger bothers me a LOT more than it bothers the other person...like when I'm stewing over what someone said or did to me, and I burst out screaming "F*** YOU!!" at them, out of nowhere, only then I realize I'm really standing in front of the bathroom mirror getting ready to brush my teeth, and there is no one else in the room. It is all in my head. The only one upset is me.
Before I relapsed, the person I did my fifth step with helped me figure out how best to make amends to the people on my list...and really the making of those amends was for my own sake and the peace in my own mind rather than theirs (clearing our own side of the street). I told her about a man who had wronged me, and the main part of the amends was to simply stop character assassinating him and maybe say hi or smile if I can(no need to apologize! hehe), and try to understand that he is another sick individual.
I also told her about a resentment that had nearly lead me to drink, and my amends was to leave him completely alone (it was over a relationship). She told me to make a living amends, to stay away, to let the relationship be what god would have it be, which was clearly not what I had been trying to force it to be. 2 weeks later, I broke that amends. And 2 weeks after that I was drunk.
When I called her after my relapse, she said I had stopped being willing when I broke that amends. Either way, I guess I'm terrible about dealing with resentments and whatnot. But one thing I didn't do that maybe I should have, was to keep talking about them to other AAers. Don't hold it in, that's the worst.
Hey TM, none of those adjectives are in the book (spineless, grovel....). Making amends is not a weak thing to do, I takes a strong character to make oneself carry them out and it's a very respected behavior, that's why you'll hear things like "you were the bigger man, for apologizing first".
But to answer your question, this is a selfish program in that these things that we do benefit ourselves directly and the effect on others is a by-product. We make amends for a couple of reasons. 1. so that we'll think twice about do whatever it was, again. 2. So that we can begin to forgive ourselves for these transgressions. 3. So we can forgive others for perhaps retaliating, or for what they did first. Once we realize our humanness and imperfection, then we can accept it in others, and let them off the hook for it. Carrying resentments kills. Let me know if you need more.
It does suck that there are assholes in the world that generally need a friggin wake up call or to "get theirs" in order to stop being such douchebags as you say. People do say in AA that you should pray for those people and then let it go. The meeting I went to on Friday entirely dealt with this subject. For example, my boss is generally a selfish, thoughtless, self-absorbed person that treats us all like garbage and will stab me and anyone else in the back to make herself look better. I recognize she is sick and I have some pity for her. I have seen her freaking out and crying over how much "work" she has to do when she really does nothing and pushes it all off on the rest of us. I have prayed for her, but I come back to work each day and she is still the same bitchy abusive person she was the day before. Generally, I often think I want to take a dump on her fancy car that she bought from getting paid more than me while not working and treating her employees like garbage. Anyhow, someone told me on Friday that I could just try praying that she gets what she deserves or that she realizes how mean she is to people. It makes sense because I CAN let it go more if I do that as oposed to some fake prayer that I don't mean for her to not suffer and have a good life. All that really matters is that I don't take it upon myself to make her suffer and it's not MY place to step in and let her know what a bitch she is. I didn't make her that way so I can't make her stop. So anyhow, I'm not making any ammends to her because whatever I did to her is 10 times less than what she does to me and everyone else...plus she's my boss and she wouldn't understand it anyhow. I can be assertive and not let myself get totally treated like crap without at least saying I don't like it and it's wrong. I guess all I am saying is I think it is ok to acknowledge there are assholes out there, but don't think that you are the one that is going to teach them a damn thing through your actions because you wont.
Disliking people is human and nothing will really take all that away. Any ammends would come from a place of you recognizing you were and are powerless over them being suck a dickhead, but you now realize YOU did something you didn't have to do in response because it didn't help the situation, it didn't make you feel that much better, and it just put even more angry vibes out there so that your world and others' is even more shitty. This is my understanding of this so far. I might also say I am not working any step four until AFTER I hit a year of sobriety. My mind is still cluttered and recouperating. If I just lay off situations, not drink, remind myself that I am powerless over others, and try and take things a day at a time, I think it will then become much more clear to me who deserves ammends from me and who doesn't. Don't complicate the program Tipsy...if this is not making sense for you, you don't need to work it yet. Just do what is working so far until more is revealed to you.
-- Edited by pinkchip at 09:44, 2009-03-08
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
There will always be people about whom you want to say "If they had a thought in their heads, it would be lonely..." Humor is my answer. I think you can conjure that up BG
Pinkchip, that's a tough situation and one that I haven't had to deal with (except for customers of mine) in sobriety. Here's two thoughts. When I come across people like that, I ask myself (where there might be some envy on my part) if I'd really want to trade places with that person, personal issues and all. The answer for me has always been no, which proves that I pity them. The other (if my behavior has been wrong and making an amend "would hurt them or others") is that I can make my amends by correcting my behavior.
Lastly, once I set boundaries for myself, and standards for how I'm going to conduct myself, I'm not going to lower that standard based on someone else's behavior because if I do, I'm hurting myself.
I'm looking forward to the complete deconstruction of my ego, then the real Scott can shine thru. As they say...freedom from the bondage of self. I may take on a new name too, Teflon. HA!
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Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. ~Buddha
Some good advise and experience here! I think eventually, the better we get, the easier it is to clean our side of the street. I was told the amends arent for the other person, they are for me...took a long time to understand that one!! But, it is so true the things I hear...mean, nasty people dont really care what we think of them or how they treat us!!! We do our part, unrent the space they have in our heads and move on!! It does work!
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"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have. "
For this Alcoholic holding on to hate and resentment is like taking poison hoping that the other person dies.
Love that. Thanks.
I never was a big hater. I would fight if someone attacked me, but if someone was just being an asshole I always have tried to just avoid them (sometimes successfully, sometimes not so much.) It's a fine line you walk doing that, though- because you tend to block people out of your life before you get to know who they really are.
I had a really sage person tell me, "So that worked pretty well to keep you safe when you were younger- how is that making your life better today?" And the more I thought about that, the more I figured he was right. I still tend to do the same thing to a lesser degree- old habits die hard- but I keep it in mind and try to cut people a little slack, because they aren't smart enough to see how perfect I am. ;)
Good topic, however- Tipsy makes some of the most flamboyant, inflammatory posts and they nearly always seem to produce some real gems. This is stuff I struggle with also, but maybe not from exactly the same angle as Tipsy has stated here. As a kid I did some pretty heinous shit and ran around with a bunch of guys I grew up with who today are pretty evenly dispersed between cemeteries and the prison system. The few that I am still in touch with who are out and about generally being productive parts of society are all in the program except one (who is a stubborn son of a bitch but we love him.) I struggle with step three all the time and eight and nine are no cakewalk. But I figure if those guys can do it (and I was a real tourist in that culture- they did way worse stuff than I ever did) I should be able to come clean with my bullshit.
Oh yeah- and Hi everybody. :) I still lurk occasionally but commuting to pick up the boy child and my new job takes up tons of time.
I've been shafted by more "recovery" people than "normal people. After 6 1/2 yrs sobriety I drank. Today by the grace of God I have 11 yrs in August. My problem is that my ex-sponser, his AA wife, My ex-AA girlfriens best friend and 13 others in recovery have hung me out to dry to the tune of $1000's of dollars in cash and merchandise.
Yes I've learned, but I am not a doormat. I'm sueing them all! The "friends" of my ex-girlfriend really shafted me and instead of having my back, she choose them. 3 1/2 yrs wasted ...and she IS one of the best people I've ever met and The diamond ring is now thrown in the ocean.
I stopped going to AA for a while but I'm now attending again. I'll never trust an AA member ever again for anything physical. I'll give all the help I can to help them do steps and be available to help them find they're own God, BUT I AM ANGRY STILL. I'll keep praying for them, but I'm not taking any of this laying down. HELP!!! Thoughts please.
letting God work in my life, which for me is through living the 12 steps in order........ Tipsy what step are you working on? you might be jumping ahead of yourself, worrying about the future without getting through todays step. looking ahead and trying to figure it out before you are ready to is self sabotage. Glad you posted this. and in my humble opinion, you are jumping to conclusions and angry about what you are supposing you will have to do as an AA member. work the steps in order, is what was told me when i started jumping around saying what i could should and won't do. today is more than enough for me. please keep coming back. we love you. thanks for helping keep me sober today.
I'm not ready to go around saying sorry for all of the bad things I did or to let go of resentments towards people I dislike. A lot of those people deserve to be resented and disliked and they deserved whatever bad things I may have done to them. I just don't see what becoming some spineless jellyfish who has to grovel at the feet of some douchebag/s has to do with my sobriety. I haven't had one person give me a reasonable explanation for why I should run around forgiving or begging for the forgiveness of people I loathe.
Someone please explain it to me...like I'm 5
Well you could just walk around pissed all the time and stomp your little foot when shit doesn't go your way.
The amends process is for us Tipsy, not for anyone else, it lets us get rid of all the useless baggage we carry around and teaches us how not to do it anymore.
It's super easy:
Cranky King Baby who thinks the world revolves around him or Possibility of Serenity
The Choice is yours
P.S. Edit: That was a good observation on your part, "explain it to me like I was five", because no offense, but your description of your emotional maturity is about that of a five year old, Don't you want to be "this many" (holds up a lot more fingers then five), it may be helpful when raising a child to have a greater level of emotional maturity then the child.
-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Thursday 5th of July 2012 06:58:40 PM
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
