How does an atheist stay sober?

therunner · Newbie

How does an atheist stay sober?

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

To me, AA is certainly not a religious program. We have many people of religious or non-religous beliefs in our community.

I can't say I totaly understand God either, I get a flash of understanding here and there via working the steps in my life.

Many people do not have the dramatic spirtiual experiences that Bill refers to in the book, the point is you need to quit playing God and believe in a power greater than yourself, which you probably have done if you have stayed sober 5 years.

therunner · Newbie

I'm not playing god - don't believe in god. I don't believe in a higher power that will relieve me from my alcoholism same as I don't believe there is a higher power that is going to feed the starving children in africa, keep someone from being murdered, or prevent another case of cancer from killing someone.

I must be pretty egocentric to believe that a god loves me more than the starving children of a nation, or the poor suffering children in a burn unit to let them die and me to live. How about if I just don't drink because I know it'll ruin my life. Not because I depend on god to stop me from drinking?

Quetzal · MIP Old Timer

Hi Todd,

Welcome to MIP. And, congrats on five years sober. That's great.

When I first came to AA I used the word God to stand for "Group Of Drunks" or "Good Orderly Direction". It worked for me.

I have accepted that I can't play God and that something created the universe. I couldn't create a universe, so there has to be something more powerful than me.

Take care,

Carol

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Todd, hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) do. The higher power thing isn't about a deity, It' about how we are Not it. An alcoholic suffers from chronic self centeredness and thinks that the world revolves around them, and that they can basically control anything that they put their mind to. Adopting a "Higher Power" and turning that perceived personal power over gets us out of control. When we learn to let go, alot of fear, stress, and anxiety go with it. It's the beginning of us knowing that our brain power hasn't produced very good results and that we need to rely on something else (an AA group maybe) for information about how to live life. Hope this helps.

Dean

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 10:07, 2009-02-17

Dakota · Senior Member

deleted my post as it wasn't apparently what the thread was trying to initiate. So not going to add anything to it is all....

-- Edited by Dakota at 11:21, 2009-02-17

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

I believe the topic is "how does an atheist stay sober" , not "does god exist or not".
Debating "God" or "AA is a religion or not" have no value with regards to staying sober, and as such will cause threads to be closed. I think that this thread's topic is an important one and the OP should tell us how he worked the program without a Higher Power without opinion and opposing debate.

While the books mention "God" many times throughout, that's primarily because they were written at a time when the majority of people were religious and went to church ect... (1930's-1950's). That's just not the case these days and why the words "Higher Power" are preferred and most often used. The program is very specific about adopting a Higher Power of our own understanding and that It can absolutely anything except for ourselves, but even then it's just suggestion. You can do anything you'd like (including hit the door) as long as you've got a desire to stop drinking.

I would've liked to have seen the big book and 12&12 edited with "Higher Power" , to head off these kinds of debates, but that's just my personal opinion.

Dean

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 10:42, 2009-02-17

Tomas · Senior Member

People who don't believe in a God...will have a very difficult time embracing AA but not impossible....You might consider rational recovery or something like that to help you with your problem...just a suggestion..Maybe you will find other atheists there..I think...Meanwhile AA is always there offering you help...If you find another way instead of AA my hat is off to you.

Many people reject God because they still have that childish unerstanding, learning about the concept of God at about the age of four...and it has never psychologically progressed..creating conflicts in a mature mind...This is what I've found most atheists are about.

As a trained Philosopher on a graduate school level, I found that most have no concept of atheism..and don't have the slighest methodoliogistic argument for the non existence...having been trained to elocute from both positions...

Frankly those claiming atheism in the majority are just pissed off people who haven't gotten their own way...so blame it on the big Bossonova

I suggest you might want to consider reading the works of the educator and mythologist Joseph Campball ..The power of Myth...explored with Bill Moyers.

Good luck

AA is a program, not for those who need it but for those who want it..

runs10k11714 · Member

Dear "the runner"
I found it a lot harder to let love or the people of AA into my life than a "higher power". The group is my "higher power" Collectively they have more experience strength and hope then I'll ever have alone. Chewing on the "God Bone" just kept my character defects going. I don't know qbout you, but I had plenty of character defects that were already a power greater than myself. One look at my life or lack of it showed me that.
Forget God for the time being. Just try to love the all too imperfect people you find trying to get sober.
Good Luck-John

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hey John, welcome to our board.
feel free to start an introductory thread so you can get a proper welcome.

Dean

Tomas · Senior Member

Good thought runner..good AA..keeping it simple in my opinion

chester · Veteran Member

God-Group of drunks The other drunk is what helps me see straight. imho

eastcoastscott · Senior Member

We always seem to try to explain God with words. It is as difficult to do as trying to answer a question like "how blue is the sky". When I got into the program, it became clear to me that this "higher power" thing was pretty important so being non religious I had difficulty with it. The film "What the bleep do we know" and quantum physics answered all of my questions. This isn't saying that it would do the same for anyone else but whatever it takes, understanding the rationale and purpose of finding a HP, as it applies to recovery, is necessary. As was mentioned here by Dean etc, we have to give up this "ego" that we identify with and understand who is really calling the shots. Your HP could be the "real" you just looking for a way to express itself and needs to be acknowledged to start this process. Just my .02

therunner · Newbie

Why do we have to find this higher power to turn our lives over to? How does it say "God I offer myself to thee..." and my higher power is a group of drunks? You actually think you wanto to give your life over to what a group of people want you to do?

I just don't think I can do the lords prayer, the serenity prayer or any other prayers that go on in the rooms of AA. At least not for now.

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 14:32, 2009-02-21

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

therunner,

It's regrettable that you feel that way that you do. And you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but bringing anti-AA rhetoric to an AA message board is "Trolling" plain and simple. And Trolling is not tollerated on any message board. You're welcome to participate on our board, ask all the questions that you like, but you'll have to keep your derogatory AA comments to yourself.

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 14:33, 2009-02-21