I struggle with the differing ideas on choosing sobriety over drinking. What I mean is, I chose to stop drinking a few days ago because I was scared of what I would do the next time I drank. Over the last 3 weeks I have broken the following items in my apartment: desk lamp, floor lamp, guitar amp, recliner, my big toe, my hand. I dont want to hurt myself anymore but i worry that fear will fade just like all the other things and this is just another false "decicion" to quit. I've probably posed this question on here before, but do you have to just be so certain and full of intent that you shouldn't even consider a drink else your just bull------- yourself? I have a half-pint of whiskey in my freezer from my last drunk and last night i was thinking-"If I was really at the jumping off point, wouldn't i just throw the whiskey out with glee??" Well, the whiskey is still there and as Im writing this i am beginning to see the pathology behind all this. I'm just fooling myself arent I? A friend of mine gave me this metaphor for which i totally identify with: I'm in a speeding car; I want to get out but I can't until it crashes, and then hopefully I can walk away. Just seems like I can't quit until I'm resolved and I can't be resolved until I've had enough, and I can't have enough. "Baffling" is an understatement imo.
Dodds, I have sooo been right were you're at. I know sounds cliche but I started drinking so young (8 yo) that I was a fully dysfunctional drinker at age 13. By the time I was 19 It was getting really old, losing jobs, licenses, cars, friends, girlfriends, my freedom, self respect. But what a roller coaster ride it was, just as life is there were the ups and downs. The ups always made me forget for awhile, but after awhile it was obvious that things were getting worse. My mother came into AA when I was 15yo and she never drank again.
Over the next 4 years, I got to know many of her AA friends and had pamphlets show up in my sock drawer a number of times. Went to several meetings as a condition for getting in some kind of trouble of getting out of jail for a drunk in public. So at 16 I knew that I was an alcoholic, and that eventually I was going to go to AA, but I was going to ride this train till it jumped the tracks and I did. It wasn't till I turned 27 that I got serious about getting sober and started attending AA regularly. Then it took 2 more years for me to get it. With about 15 years to go before "retirement age" I so regret those 11 years of my adult life that I wasted. I could have been retired by now and had enjoyed so much more of the best things about life, like spending time with family, traveling, and my hobies...
So while I can't tell you how to skip the "tired of being sick and tired..." part and the near dealth experiences for the practicallity of preserving this precious resource called your lifespan, from actual experience please learn from my mistakes. Skip the heartaches and pain, the misssed opportunities and lost relastionships and buy some time.
This is easily one of the hardest parts of the program. Knowing what the score is and how to win the game, and watching another make the wrong moves knowing that my comments may be falling on deaf ears due to prejudice of age and apparent inequality.
The only requirement for membership to AA is a desire to stop drinking. It doesn't say anywhere that the desire has to be so overwhelming...In fact, in the early days of AA, they were only working with the most hardcore drinkers and they found that there was a need to raise the bottom, so to speak so that all others could also enter into recovery. It's in the preface part of the big book. I went on knowing I was an alcoholic and told myself I would wind up in AA when it became so obvious I couldn't stand it anymore. For me, that wound up crashing my car drunk and almost going to jail for it. I also hurt myself numerous times...I fell backwards in a chair and bashed my head and had to go to the hospital when I was in between jobs and without insurance. That resulted in a 2000 dollar out of pocket hospital bill and a perscription of vicodin that I took too fast and with alcohol. I broke more things than I care to remember around the house. You can always tell an alcoholics house because it seems like the same things are often broken. The towel holder by the shower is a big one because it seems we like to shower drunk and grip it to keep our balance, so that always got ripped out of the wall. The toilet seat because of crashing down on it the wrong way. Multiple lamps, multiple glasses. Holes in the wall behind doors from tripping through them and the knob hitting the wall. More often than not when people come back into AA after having been out, they seem to come back in a cast or a sling or some sort. Even after that car crash I still had some doubts about whether or not I was "done." I thought "I haven't lost my job," "I have never lost my house," "I have never been arrested" (though I should have been), I never landed in detox or a halfway house like so many people I'd heard of. My sponsor and others told me those were just "Not Yets" and they were all waiting for me if I kept drinking. Crashing my car was bad enough so I keep a remnant of the busted up car (I saved a shard of the headlight from the accident when I saw the car in the morning after I was barely able to drive the wreck home). I keep it to remind me of the direction I was headed in. By all means, I should have had a DUI that night and spent the night in jail. There are people in the rooms who have told me they had to go to their first meetings drunk because they were so unsure if they could quit. The disease is very baffling as you say because you will have an innate desire to "lower your bottom" and more and more demoralizing events will seem acceptable to you. That IS the disease from my standpoint. Your desire to stay sober might not be 100 percent at first, but if you keep going back to AA, chances are you will get there eventually. There are probably very few people on here that would say they didn't have their disease creep back in and tell them "You could drink some more" or "What would really happen if you just drank tonight?" That is the nature of the beast. I never poured out alcohol...I'm still not sure I would because my disease tells me that is a waste of liqour. I don't keep any around anymore though that is for sure. It is an alcoholic's nature to want to drink. You could spend your whole life waiting for that point to hit you where you feel like you've had enough and by then, life could have passed you by or the consequences of your drinking will have gotten so bad, it will be even harder to stop. I called the AA hotline 2 times in the months leading up to me actually going to a meeting. I found every excuse not to go because the idea of stopping seemed so wrong and the changes I knew that would come with it would be so difficult at first. Just by coming on here and asking the questions you are is telling me that you really do want to stop. Those messed up ideas about "why don't I pour out the bottle" are your disease talking. I recommend not waiting until something so horrible happens that you HAVE to stop. You will probably never get to the point where your body and mind tell you you have had enough. The thing that seems to get people to the rooms is when life is so sucky it seems like the better option. To me, you sound like you are at a better "jumping off" point than many. You are already admitting on here that you are powerless over alcohol due to what is happening to you when you drink and the thoughts you are having. Step 1 is already working within you. Go with that and keep working.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Interesting. I too often thought my destiny would be AA, well before I got there. I knew *of* AA, but not much about it. My dad attempted to get sober when I was 10-11 years old, that's when I first heard of it. I believe I went to at least one meeting with him then, but don't really remember much except a bunch of old guys laughing and the smell of coffee and cigarettes.
About 5 years before I got sober, I came across a guy that had known my dad - who had been dead 12 years at that point. He was about the same age as my dad would have been, and had been sober 11 years. We talked about some old times, but he must have sensed I had questions about my own drinking. He proceeded to tell me his story, no strings attached. I don't know what all I was thinking - I didn't feel my drinking was "that bad" but I knew instinctively how much my life revolved around alcohol. What I *did* know is that I really liked this guy. A seed was planted... I wanted what he had.
Alas, I tried to find him after I got sober - I wanted him to speak at one of my meetings... but never did connect with him in AA. I talked to several people who knew him but by then his health was not good. I'm pretty sure he's long gone now - but when I'm telling my story, I always mention the old piano player with the twinkle in his eye. That was my 12-step call... it just took me another 5 years to take MY first step.
I did not believe that I had a particularly bad problem with alcohol till I came into AA. "I just thought everyone drank around the clock." Then I found out how bad my problem really was.."Recognition of my problem, indeed, an inside job, through soul searching and identification" was only possible for me through AA meetings. The heavy volume of alcohol I consumed meant little....my activities relating to my drunk-alog..not to unfamiliar with many others. The applause, when I finally spoke at an open meeting, not due to the nefarious nature of my alcoholic activities, but my sincerity of recognition, and intention to share, for no other reason than to help others when the appropriate time arrived. My motive to share seemed to be pure after about 90 days...The group, my newly adopted higher power and I spiritually recognized then, it was time for me to share in order to help those younger in sobriety..I was now a positive example, a role model, an inspiration to those just finding the doors of AA. It was not easy to get that far...It took many meetings, many prayers, and many sleepless nights and days of just hanging in..But realized others did same.
Many I found who are unsuccessful, are those who have unfortunately not realized that they should be listening to learn how to stay sober through the success of others; that no one is particularly interested at meetings to a new comers un-informed ho-hum attempts to become understood, or an explaination of how he or she are characteristically unique. Whining, to a degree is inbreed in us all, reserved for tired young children looking for attention from mommy. Thank God I had just enough humility to realize the wisdom of that early...I took the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth..another crucial area that I attribute to my early success in getting and staying sober.
The alcohol I found was but a symptom of something greater..i.e Alcoholism.. a physical, mental and spirtual disease.. When I began to personally IDENTIFY the real problem...I found that I could go one day at a time without picking up a drink...As I progressed mentally and spiritually...I lost the compulsion and the obsession to drink...replaced with more positive thoughts, ideas and activities.
The key I found is once identified by listening and self examination "not to focus on the problem...but to focus on the solution" and the solution for me has been AA.... It's fellowship and program. I have not picked up a drink since my first AA meeting.
There is little doubt in my mind that I could not sober up on a message board..Going to brick and morter meetings was essential...to listen, to learn, to share and to experience the strength hope and expeience in life's human interchange..If you find a better way of doing it, it's your life, my hat is off to you...
To me after many 24hrs... the AA solution works just fine...it's simple but not easy..
I think most of what Tomas said is right on the money. Message board is helpful, but could not do with with this alone. Face to face meetings, sponsorship, actively working on spirituality, and listening at meetings is key. I did babble a lot for about 2 months because my thoughts were so unclear and the concept of terminal uniqueness did not set in until then. Having just a little bit more time now, I am closer to what a brand new person is going through and I know they have to babble and whine to hear themselves talk until the thoughts get clearer and the message can be absorbed. The only real annoying thing is when a person just doesn't get the message ever and continues to go out. I only have 137 days, and it has only become recently that I have been able to try to listen hard to old-timers and try and pick out the solutions that really worked for them and to try and put them into action. With that said, I get a bit upset when people roll their eyes at newcomers sharing about themselves, especially in beginners meetings which is what that is for. It's natural to come in feeling like you had problems that were so bad and you are in so much pain you have to share it all thinking nobody can relate. The old attitude of "shut up and listen" right from the get go is not realistic because a person needs to feel acceptance, encouragement, and to become a part of before they can even really listen well and relate. I would have punched someone if they told me to shut up and listen in my first 60 days. I don't have a lot of time, but I have only picked up 1 white chip also. It would not have been that way if people didn't listen to my "whining" for a while before I could just listen. Speaker meetings force a newcomer to listen, which is why my sponsor had me going to those a couple of times a week from the get go. Another thing is that sometimes I have seen people with time go out because they didn't think they were supposed to share about their problems because they were supposed to have "the solution" due to having years of sobriety. Of course a brand newcomer sounds like a whiny child, but they should never be shamed for sharing, just encouraged to identify and start living in the solution. I think it's great that for some, only listening in the beginning works, but the inability to talk and share seems to drive more newcomers out than their whining and not listening. I feel more sorry for the people that are too scared to talk at meetings and I think they have a greater problem.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Pink I think that the critique of some of my remarks were misinterpreted or mis read..I think back to my early days ie before 90 days...We newcomers went to the general meetings to learn...There was no such think as newcomer meetings in those days...but we newcomers would get amongst ourselves and talk AA for hours... dicussed what we had learned and supported one another...we took our own initiative...Today everyone wants it on a silver platter their terms I guess....different generation.
As far as the whining...that was what sponsors were for...not in the general meeting.. occuping the meeting with a lot of trash talking....
As a new comer, if I heard a lot of trash talking I'd be right out the door..What impressed me were those with sobriety who didn't drink and turned their life around..I wanted what they had
My sponsor told me when I wised off with 2 weeks sobriety..to shut up and listen..It was those wild ideas that got me there..and they would take me right out the door...back drinking
I believe you might have confused "The Problem Alcoholism.".. mixed up with day to day Problems...That's where the wisdom of those who have been around becomes extremely important..The "solution" to these problems through the introduction of the steps..and how to use them..
General Problems solved through the steps, not the bottle we leaned.
Where most newcomers miss the mark.. The way you get sobriety is by learning through time how to stay sober and then giving what you learned and earned away..YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING BEFORE YOU CAN GIVE IT AWAY...and again that needs to be learned and earned through LISTENING...It was suggested..listen 90 days..90 meetings..
That's why I believe our rate of recovery was so high as compared to today in AA..There is a tremendous amount of spiritual strength earned when you give something away to help others..
Some NEVER learn that lesson..don't grow spiritually and go back out...I've seen it over and over again..
Thomas, you are right. As I think why I am making it thus far, it is because of following all the traditional things that have always worked in AA. I did more than 90/90 it was more like 130/90. I soaked up AA (continue to because it is an ongoing process and a way of life) and was eager to learn. I wanted what old-timers had. I often misinterpret things because I think too much. More or less, we are on the same page. AA only works if you want it, go to meetings, listen, get a sponsor, share about your growth or identifying with someone else's experience, strength, and hope, and keep inside your hulah hoop (aka mind your own business). I am glad for newcomer's meetings though...that is the place to talk. 3 nights out of the week I attend more standard meetings and in those, I picked up fast that it was a place for me to listen and I let people with more time share. Already on this board I have identified some people that I really look up to and whatever they say is something that comes from experience that I hope to gain as I stay sober. All I have to offer is strength in terms of AA working for me as a newcomer. In that aspect, I hope others see that life can get a whole lot better fairly quickly by surrendering to the disease and embracing AA.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
It's always great to discuss these things in a civilized dialog...that's how people learn..You hit the nail right on the head when you said you went to 130 metings in 90 days...that's where the real "gift" of sobriety resides...The hunger of the spirit to learn and grow more and more..That enthusiasm becomes infectious..for the one's younger and inspiring for those who have more time.
Our primary purpose is "to stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety"..God bless you on 130+ days..
