Should we go easy on the "God stuff"?

cheri · Senior Member

Should we go easy on the "God stuff"?

Doll · MIP Old Timer

As a Christian I find it "difficult" when non chrisitians ( members & others) want to make it a big deal.... I believe what I believe and you believe what you beiieve..... as long as no one is trying to convince me (or you) otherwise, then take what you need and leave the rest.

~ Jen

Simple · Senior Member

Cheri - For some reason your post gave me a split-second flashback to when I first got sober. The person who brought me to my first meeting was named Cheri, and she was Jewish. I was not (and am not) religious at all. I watched her struggle with the idea of prayer, with the group saying the Lord's Prayer, and some other things. Watching her struggle with this, and finding her own answers, helped me. I found a sponsor who had beliefs similar to mine, although they weren't exactly the same. Over the time that I have been sober, I have had an amazing spiritual journey and my beliefs in "a power greater than myself" have changed many times over.

I think this will always be a hot topic in AA, as it is the world over. But your post reminded me that I even though I had no set belief when I came into AA, I had some sort of faith, hope that there was something better. And there was. I think the 12 Traditions, and even the steps themselves, help protect us from any kind of schism that may come from this or other differences. Really, if you think about it, it is absolutely mind-blowing how so many very different people can absolutely agree on the simple principles of the 12 steps and have their lives, and the world, radically changed because of it. Thanks for the reminder, I needed it!

celtcgrrl · Veteran Member

I am always interested to hear about people's various beliefs regarding their HPs. I see a lot of Christians of course, but I have also heard people talk about many other versions of spirituality and how their beliefs helped them. The only time I ever have seen real negativity is when a group started sort of Catholic bashing. That really irked me because we really should accept that everyone has to find the God of THEIR understanding. Oh well, as they say, we are none of us saints!

lani · MIP Old Timer

I agree, AA is a spiritual program. Not religious. The beauty of AA is we all are different, have different beliefs, but when it comes down to it, we are all the same! To me its all about believing in a power, of my own choosing, greater than myself! I know I could not have gotten sober of my own accord!

Ive heard alot of people say they were turned off by the word god when they first came in. But if we stick around long enough we will realize exactly what most of us mean by that. Its hard to have someone new understand that.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Thanks cheri for bringing this topic. For the record, I consider myself a christian and am comfortable with the religion of my upbringing, which is Catholicism. The spirituality that I've acquired through this program is strong and I have daily (many times a day) contact with my higher power, whom I chose to call "God".
I am also very comfortable with calling God my "Higher Power" in meetings and elsewhere and to be somewhat low key when sharing a spiritual experience out of respect for others and to avoid giving the wrong impression to newcomers. I believe that this is the right thing to do, and I'm not alone by a long shot. cheri, I really appreciate your message of tolerance, and it helps me to put things into perspective however tolerance is also the principal required to honor and respect people of all faiths worldwide that are involved in our fellowship (and out). The trouble is that when we get specific about our brand of HP, we can make others feel as if they aren't working their program correctly. I see it as alienation plain and simple. So one has to ask themselves what's more important, my freedom to share specifics about my spirituality or others feelings about theirs?

Dean

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 15:41, 2008-11-13

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I really have no opinion on this topic. weirdface

I hate when people talk about football. evileye

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

happycamper wrote:

I dont go easy on the God stuff. Why should I ? I dont shout from the street corner that Im saved.

typical.

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 08:09, 2008-11-14

cheri · Senior Member

StPeteDean wrote: . So one has to ask themselves what's more important, my freedom to share specifics about my spirituality or others feelings about theirs?

In a open discussion mtg, I'm also very low key. If someone asks me about specifics we go have coffee after the meeting.
This comes up alot in my area because we have 3 treatment centers in our little town, so educating the newcomer is a constant at my HG. Knowing that alcoholism is a physical, emotional, and spiritual malady and adressing all 3 has been how I try to work with newcomers.
It's a good question Dean. Every situation is different and so the answers change.
Love to all, cheri

jonijoni1 · MIP Old Timer

Dean,

I HATE it when people get mad about Catholicism, and call themselves "Recovering Catholics" in a meeting. WTF? Wrong 12-Step Program, I guess!! I know plenty of Catholics, Buddhists, Unitarians, and the like, in meetings, and no one else finds it necessary to claim they are "recovering" from a particular spiritual belief. I am glad that, like you, folks do get back to whatever works for them, and go with it. There is no "wrong" spiritual belief in AA, and no reason to be "recovering" from whatever DOES work for people.

Once in a great while people ask me what my beliefs consist of, and I have to mention the Christianity thing.... but if they scowl, I am quick to mention that not ALL Christians are judgmental, dogmatic, or out to save the world through force. Likewise, I take lessons and realizations from the faiths of all my friends in AA. I don't discount anybody's beliefs, and a lot of stuff from these other faiths have helped me TREMENDOUSLY through exercises in things like meditation, yoga, etc.... There are a lot of folks who see christianity as a bunch of Pharisees. I see it as belonging to a faith where the original leader of that faith was a loving and wise hippy who welcomed everyone.

It is nice to belong to a group where, theoretically, you can be catholic, and I can be non-denominational, and some can be buddhist, and TL can be agnostic, and someone else down the road can have faith in a mountain, if they so choose. And no one is "right" or "wrong". We are indeed recovering from a "lack" of spiritual awakening, but once we have that awakening, in whatever form, it is our choice.

Thanks for letting me blather on..... :o)

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I always thought the "recovering catholic" comments were jokes in reference to being an old school cradle catholic (indoctrinated into the religious persuasion in infancy and throughout childhood having zero other options.) I've found that many catholic families from some time not too far prior to my generation (or in fact many families of any persuasion prior to my generation) were super old school and the kids were required to be a particular faith. Some of them in adulthood tend to resent that and make jokes (as do a lot of my Jewish friends but they're mostly atheist, agnostic- oddly enough.) I never thought of it as making an excuse.

Also I have had some ex-Catholic (or maybe "backsliding catholic" or "lay-catholic" are better terms for them) friends who talk about the church they went to as a kid, the macabre bloody jesus paintings and statues and the scary stuff they were told to keep them from committing a variety of sins, and the guilt it left them with when they did experiment with various stuff we tend to do as teenagers and twenty somethings, etc...

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

TLH wrote:

I always thought the "recovering catholic" comments were jokes in reference to being an old school cradle catholic (indoctrinated into the religious persuasion in infancy and throughout childhood having zero other options.)
__________________________________________________________

I've heard that in meetings plenty of times, and it's funny that I never felt like that. I, like many, attended a couple of Catholic grade schools (6 years total) and refused to continue. Dad got a little pissed when I insisted on going to public school but I'd had enough. The next Nun that laid their hands or feet on me was going to pay . So the best thing for me was to get the hell out of there.
I't didn't make me bitter about my faith, just lost interest in it. I have other friends that reacted to the abuse much differently and where quite violent individuals when provoked, but come to think of it some might have discribed me similarly.
In any case, religieon has nothing to do with my spirituality. My HP is text book, custom developed by me.

TLH · MIP Old Timer

StPeteDean wrote:

I have other friends that reacted to the abuse much differently and where quite violent individuals when provoked,

Lorenzo Carcaterra's Autobiographical novel "Sleepers" (later made into a movie with Kevin Bacon and Brad Pitt, Billy Crudup and Robert De Niro) came immediately to mind. People certainly seem to choose many diverse paths from the same beginnings and influences.

As an adult I have always felt I missed out on something by not having some sort of defined spiritual base in my life as a kid. But cest la vie- it is what it is. I actually envy my Jew friends and Catholics the most- it seems like they had the coolest and most diverse experiences involving their church and culture and were the more diverse and interesting, well read people for it. I find both of those religions (not exclusively mind you, but they are a couple big ones) interesting on both a spiritual and a historical level, and feel none of us can be culturally literate without delving into both.

Sick of being sick · MIP Old Timer

I am staying sober today! Thanks and praise be unto _________(fill in the blank)!

Some Options:
God
Hari Krishna
Allah
Buddha
Yaweh
Om
Mother Earth Spirit
Great Spirit
The Good Side of the Force
G.O.D. (Group Of Drunks OR Good Orderly Direction)
White knuckles wink

Etc.

TOLERANCE, my AA brothers and sisters.....TOLERANCE! And peace to you all.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

let's not leave out the Pastafarians wink

http://www.venganza.org/

https://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/johnnypazzesco/touchedFSM.jpg

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 08:50, 2008-11-16

jonijoni1 · MIP Old Timer

LOL!!!!!!!! Loved the back-and-forth here.... :o)

And Dean, where in the Hell do you find such things??? LOL

My "new" rendition of my childhood faith is my own as well. Like most things in life, I try to take from "religion" what is helpful, and leave the rest.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

My football message board is full of atheists and agnostics (the Godless heathens weirdface

) and they post the pastafarian stuff to piss off the resident bible thumpers lol. It's been going on for years.

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 17:40, 2008-11-17