My mother in law has been an alcoholic for about 6 years, I met my wife about 4 years ago. I dont really know the "real" Denise, I only know Denise with a desease. I see and feel alot of the pain that is caused by her desease. She has 3 children, the oldest is 26 and the other two are 18 and 16. She has lost almost everything! Her husband divorced her, she lost her home, her job, and her children dont want anything to do with her while she is drinking. My wife and I have done alot over the years to try and help, we have taken her to detox and then to a local (free) rehab that is run by the state. She has been there three times. The first time we convinced her to go, the 2nd time she went on her own, and the third time we had her Baker Acted through the court system. She has been out of rehab for the final time for about 6-8 months and each time gets out she stay's with a "friend". We have met this guy a few times and it seems that he has the right intentions but It also seems that he is an enabler. Its nice that he puts a roof over her head and other things but she isnt getting any better. She called my brother inlaw from the hospital last week and someone found her lying on the side of the street and called the police. He and I went to check on her the next day and she was passed out on the bed and didnt move! (sorry if I talked to much)
OK my questions are-
1) What should we do? We have been trying the "tough love" route thinking that she might hit rock bottom and then want to change. However with her friend always there to take her back in Im not to sure if she will.
2) Is "tough love" the best way?
3) Are the free rehabs good? Should they work if she is ready? She needs help with depression as well and we think maybe she isnt getting the tools that she needs to deal with the depression and alcoholism. She says that she is doing well but we have a hard time believing her. Lots of lies..
I could go on all day... any suggestions??
I would love to meet the "real" Denise and my children have only seen her a few times. So feel free to ask or say what ever you like, I will be very greatful foe any and all advice I recieve!
I will check this forum as much as I can, mostly in the afternoon and evening's.
^^^^^^^^^great advise there. Andy, your MIL probably needs some therapy. Have any of her rehabs been 90 days? If not maybe there is a treatment center that a Judge can court order that is. Bottom line is that she may have to beat her head against the wall for years till she's ready, and she may never be "ready". This disease kills people and it very well may kill her. al-anon for the family is the best idea. I'm guessing by your mention of "the Baker Act" that you're in FL.
Best of luck to you! Its so hard to look at someone else and want to save them. But like Doll says, we cant help someone who doesnt want our help. We can only help ourselves.
Alcoholism is a sickness, a disease which shows no mercy for those who wont get help. Nothing else matters except that buzz or that feeling of escaping life's challenges. If your not alcoholic you may not understand how cunning and baffling the disease can be.
Im sure your MIL loves you all in her own way but the drink is more important to her at this time. Shes proven that by losing everything she has in her life. I think it can be painful to deal with and wonder why she wont quit, even for her family! Know that its not you or your family, its the darn booze!!
Educating yourself is a great step in understanding why she makes the foolish choices she makes. Prayers out to you!
__________________
"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have. "
Bottom line; you can't help someone that'st not ready to help themselves and sadly some NEVER are.
Yep. Sounds like this 'guy' is an enabler and if not's him, she will find someone else (there are millions of enablers out there.)
As for rehab, I've never been personally, but any rehab is good but ONLY if the person is ready.
I'd suggest cutting her off, completely! And getting yourself and your family to Al-Anon.
My prayers are with you all......
Doll, Thank you so much for your honesty! From your experience with being an alcoholic, did you find yourself at these level's and were these actions (being cut off) helpful in recovery? I think Al-Anon is a great idea! Do you feel that the online Al-Anon meetings and online audio files from past meetings would be helpful?
^^^^^^^^^great advise there. Andy, your MIL probably needs some therapy. Have any of her rehabs been 90 days? If not maybe there is a treatment center that a Judge can court order that is. Bottom line is that she may have to beat her head against the wall for years till she's ready, and she may never be "ready". This disease kills people and it very well may kill her. al-anon for the family is the best idea. I'm guessing by your mention of "the Baker Act" that you're in FL.
Dean
Dean, Thank you for your help! Yes the treatment that she went to the first two times were 90 day programs, however since she "volunteerly went she was able to leave early each time. She made it like 67 days the first time and Im not sure how long the second time (I think it was less than the first). The third time we had her court ordered to go and she was mandated to finish all 90 days! She had so much anger towards us that we didnt speak for many months. All three of these detox and rehab sessions were at the same location and she swears they dont help her. She says she wants help at times but I dont ever really see or hear about her doing anything to help herself. Each time she has gone to rehab or to AA meetings my wife and I have done all the foot work, Why wont she do it? If she was ready to help herself Im guessing she would start the process herself??
Best of luck to you! Its so hard to look at someone else and want to save them. But like Doll says, we cant help someone who doesnt want our help. We can only help ourselves.
Alcoholism is a sickness, a disease which shows no mercy for those who wont get help. Nothing else matters except that buzz or that feeling of escaping life's challenges. If your not alcoholic you may not understand how cunning and baffling the disease can be.
Im sure your MIL loves you all in her own way but the drink is more important to her at this time. Shes proven that by losing everything she has in her life. I think it can be painful to deal with and wonder why she wont quit, even for her family! Know that its not you or your family, its the darn booze!!
Educating yourself is a great step in understanding why she makes the foolish choices she makes. Prayers out to you!
Lani,
Thank you for your support! Its hard sometimes... I hate to see my wife, brother, and sister in-laws suffer. Sometimes I feel that if she only knew about all the damage and pain that she has/is causing she would stop. After reading other posts on this board Im thinking maybe that makes her drink more.
Has anyone here experienced a good rehab program that handles other issues as well, such as depression etc? I dont care where it is, I would just ike to find a program that isnt to expensive where they can work for their admission fee's and that will truly help her. I agree that we cant do anything until she is ready, but If we have all the info ready for when that day comes It will give us a head start!!
Thanks again for all the support and knowledge shared here, Andy
I will be on later tonight, going to my sister in-laws graduation!!
Wow, you MIL sounds like a hard case. Like is says in the Big book (AA) "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path....there are those unfortunates, they seem to be incapable of being honest with themselves". That about sums it up Andy. That and It seems to me that many have some real issue (read angry) with God or as we call it a "Higher Power". This is a spiritual program and most that come thru here are spriitually challenged or "Spriitualy bankrupt". The combination of all of the above is a deadly one. She is going to do exactly what she wants to do until something, probably tragic in the form of medical or physical happens and scares the crap out her, then possibly, she might be ready. Until then she is probably somewhat amused by the negative attention that she is getting in the form or you'all running around trying cure her. I not trying to be mean, but the effort would be better spent on being a Big Brother or Sister to some needy child, who has a future. It's a bit selfish of the children of this women trying to fix her, so that they will feel better. It's really up to their mother to take responsibility, and she might if left to flounder. And in the big picture, if she wants to drink herself to death, then that's her perogative. AA is a program for people that want it. AA get a lot of heat because many are shoved through the door, that don't want to be here, leave and skew the recovery rate of those that honestly want to get sober. Good luck with it.
I agree that we cant do anything until she is ready, but If we have all the info ready for when that day comes It will give us a head start!!
Oddly enough I was just reading a book on applied substance abuse counseling that talked about some of the misconceptions about popular ideas having to do with AA and treatmkent, and one thing the smart lady had to say is that although the person needs to be 'ready' to get straight, sometimes two or three rehabs are what it takes to get them started in the right direction. Apparently the courts sentencing offenders to treatment while serving their sentence has provided some impressive results that indicate it works (requiring reluctant abusers to go to treatment and/or AA).
I wish someone had sent me when I was 17 (although I wouldn't have gone without a fight. I was a stubborn, scared kid.)
Wow, you MIL sounds like a hard case. Like is says in the Big book (AA) "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path....there are those unfortunates, they seem to be incapable of being honest with themselves". That about sums it up Andy. That and It seems to me that many have some real issue (read angry) with God or as we call it a "Higher Power". This is a spiritual program and most that come thru here are spriitually challenged or "Spriitualy bankrupt". The combination of all of the above is a deadly one. She is going to do exactly what she wants to do until something, probably tragic in the form of medical or physical happens and scares the crap out her, then possibly, she might be ready. Until then she is probably somewhat amused by the negative attention that she is getting in the form or you'all running around trying cure her. I not trying to be mean, but the effort would be better spent on being a Big Brother or Sister to some needy child, who has a future. It's a bit selfish of the children of this women trying to fix her, so that they will feel better. It's really up to their mother to take responsibility, and she might if left to flounder. And in the big picture, if she wants to drink herself to death, then that's her perogative. AA is a program for people that want it. AA get a lot of heat because many are shoved through the door, that don't want to be here, leave and skew the recovery rate of those that honestly want to get sober. Good luck with it.
Dean
Dean, Your knowledge and experience is very much appreciated! I have to agree with you, I do believe that she asks for help at times to get attention from us and yes it is a hard case. I believe that she may be struggling with her "higher power", I believe it would be questional for most people in her situation. If you are an alcoholic and are sober (I cant remember if you said) , how did you restore faith in your higher power? Does this need to come first or will it naturally come back with time as your life begins to come back?
I agree that we cant do anything until she is ready, but If we have all the info ready for when that day comes It will give us a head start!!
Oddly enough I was just reading a book on applied substance abuse counseling that talked about some of the misconceptions about popular ideas having to do with AA and treatmkent, and one thing the smart lady had to say is that although the person needs to be 'ready' to get straight, sometimes two or three rehabs are what it takes to get them started in the right direction. Apparently the courts sentencing offenders to treatment while serving their sentence has provided some impressive results that indicate it works (requiring reluctant abusers to go to treatment and/or AA).
I wish someone had sent me when I was 17 (although I wouldn't have gone without a fight. I was a stubborn, scared kid.)
TLH,
These too appear to be words of wisdom, What was the book? It could be possible that if we keep sending her back she will eventually realize what she is doing to herself and others and maybe want to quit. Definately a great thought that I will share with my wife!
Bottom line; you can't help someone that'st not ready to help themselves and sadly some NEVER are.
Yep. Sounds like this 'guy' is an enabler and if not's him, she will find someone else (there are millions of enablers out there.)
As for rehab, I've never been personally, but any rehab is good but ONLY if the person is ready.
I'd suggest cutting her off, completely! And getting yourself and your family to Al-Anon.
My prayers are with you all......
Doll, Thank you so much for your honesty! From your experience with being an alcoholic, did you find yourself at these level's and were these actions (being cut off) helpful in recovery? I think Al-Anon is a great idea! Do you feel that the online Al-Anon meetings and online audio files from past meetings would be helpful?
Dean, Your knowledge and experience is very much appreciated! I have to agree with you, I do believe that she asks for help at times to get attention from us and yes it is a hard case. I believe that she may be struggling with her "higher power", I believe it would be questional for most people in her situation. If you are an alcoholic and are sober (I cant remember if you said) , how did you restore faith in your higher power? Does this need to come first or will it naturally come back with time as your life begins to come back?
Thanks again! Andy
Hi Andy, yes I got sober in '89. A relationship with a "Higher power" is not neccessary to get sober, as most that come into the program are agnostics or athiests. Most that stay in the program do adopt a Higher power "of their own understanding". Some do not and do well without. I never lost my faith, but thought perhaps that God didn't have any power over my life, as far as I could see. So it wasn't a long stretch for me.
I agree with TLH's comments about accumulation of recovery thru numerous exposures. Of course. Many of us struggle, getting short periods of sobriety and go drink again, before settling in. Some get many years and for some reason (complaciency or a traggic event) go out and drink. It took me two solid years of going to meetings almost daily to get more than 2 months without a drink. It's not easy, even when someone wants it's badly. That's why we can say that it's a long shot if the person has no real interest in getting sober. There must be some large incentive (usually negative).
And usually successful alcoholics (ones that are not out on the street) have "Enablers". These enablers don't always buy booze for the alcoholics, but they do things for the alcoholic that they should be doing for themselves, which allolws the alcoholic to "get away" with drinking and being dysfunctional, which in turn keeps the alcoholic from "hitting bottom" and possibly getting the gift of desparation required to develop a desire to "go to any means" to quit drinking.
I think of the enablers as people who keeping shoving pillows under the drunks rear end, so that they don't hit the bottom that they so desparately need. It's tough to sit back and watch some one dangerously decline, but conversely, the enablers are in as much killing the alcoholic by allowing them to get worse. I hope this helps.
Honestly Andy, I'd be considered a 'functioning" or "high bottom drunk" (for lack of a better term). I never lost anything as far as home & job. My closest family member lives 900 miles away and I'd managed to cut myself off from almost all of my friends, the ones who didn't drink like I did, anyway. However, I came pretty damned close in losing the man I love. He gave me an ultimatum "quit drinking or lose me", so he was motivation for me to take long hard look at myself. But only motivation. I have to WANT to be sober. I have to do the work required of me to stay sober.
~ hope this helps
Please keep us posted.......... we truely care.
__________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain.
Wow! Almost twenty years!! Good for you, You have conquered something truly amazing. You better be proud of yourself!
Rumour has it that her "friend" will be moving to Illinois in a month or so and that would leave her homeless. Who knows if she will find another enabler. I wish there was ONE way that fixed this desease but there is not, We need Al-non for sure, maybe this will lead us in the right direction.
Be careful! There is a fine line between functioning and not. You have me worried now. At least you are here and acknowledge that you have a weakness, that takes some strength! What's your next step to recovery? Do you have a plan?
Hi Andy, there is no conquering this disease. All we enjoy is a "daily repreave, based upon our spiritual condition" one day at a time. I could wake up tomorrow, lose my mind, think that I can drink again and.... move in with your MIL lol. I pray that she'll safely decide that she's had enough, and ask for help.
I agree that we cant do anything until she is ready, but If we have all the info ready for when that day comes It will give us a head start!!
Oddly enough I was just reading a book on applied substance abuse counseling that talked about some of the misconceptions about popular ideas having to do with AA and treatmkent, and one thing the smart lady had to say is that although the person needs to be 'ready' to get straight, sometimes two or three rehabs are what it takes to get them started in the right direction. Apparently the courts sentencing offenders to treatment while serving their sentence has provided some impressive results that indicate it works (requiring reluctant abusers to go to treatment and/or AA).
I wish someone had sent me when I was 17 (although I wouldn't have gone without a fight. I was a stubborn, scared kid.)
TLH,
These too appear to be words of wisdom, What was the book? It could be possible that if we keep sending her back she will eventually realize what she is doing to herself and others and maybe want to quit. Definately a great thought that I will share with my wife!
DEAN- What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks guys/gals, Andy
I believe it was "Substance Abuse Counseling - Theory and Practice" by Patricia Stevens and Robert L Smith.
Be careful! There is a fine line between functioning and not. You have me worried now. At least you are here and acknowledge that you have a weakness, that takes some strength! What's your next step to recovery? Do you have a plan?
keep in touch! Andy
My point was that each person has their own individual bottom. Mine was finally 'waking up' to the fact of that 'fine line.'
No worries necessary. I have been a member of AA since 2005. I have a great sponsor, I work the steps, I attend meetings on average 5 outta 7 days. THAT is my plan, that IS my recovery - learning to live life on life's terms, one day at the time, without alcohol...... even though the past couple of days have been rough, today has been especially shitty, I know, from experience, as long as I dont' pick up, it WiLL pass.....
-- Edited by Doll at 20:42, 2008-05-25
__________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain.
Be careful! There is a fine line between functioning and not. You have me worried now. At least you are here and acknowledge that you have a weakness, that takes some strength! What's your next step to recovery? Do you have a plan?
doll- sorry about that, I got the impression that you were still drinking! Im glad to hear you are working the steps!!
Thanks to everyone for helping me. I actually gained a whole different kind of help than I was expecting. I realized that just communicating about it is very helpful and also that we are not at all alone.
My point was that each person has their own individual bottom. Mine was finally 'waking up' to the fact of that 'fine line.'