I've been thinking...

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

I've been thinking...

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Danielle,

I think that you should retitle your topic "stinking thinking". With all due respect to your decision, 17 months is not a lot of time when it comes to
receiving the gifts of the second step. You were at a similar crossroad a few months ago and thought better of it and I hope the same will happen now. Believe me, I understand where you're coming from in the rationale department as I had many of the same thoughts in the first 3 years (2 years of trying to get sober + 1 year sober) but I've never felt that AA held me back from life or anything that I wanted to do. It actually gave me the opportunity to do anything/everthing that I was willing to put the effort in for. That's the part that I don't get about your retirement speach. I'll hope you'll change your mind and stay but we'll leave the light on for you. Just remember the sobriety is a gift, not a choice. And when you decide to leave there are no guarantees that you'll make it back. Sorry for the drama, but I couldn't just say nothing or "have a nice trip". Good luck either way.

Dean

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 21:02, 2008-02-17

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 00:02, 2008-02-18

Sick of being sick · MIP Old Timer

Dear Daniella,

I was sober for a year about 12 years ago, then decided to see "if I couldn't live (drink) like normal people". I slid down a slippery slope for about 8 years before I was able to claw and crawl my way back out of the alcohol pit.

If you are not, (and, hence, never were) an alcoholic, you will make it. If you are an alcoholic, and need to conduct the "great experiment", I pray that you are able to find the way back. Remember you are always welcome here if you need us.

Good Luck.

Dan, an alcoholic in North Dakota, USA

eastcoastscott · Senior Member

Danielle,

Terrifying deja vue for me, exactly the way I felt when I had the bottle of vodka in my hand during a 12 year sobriety. That of course, led to a major relapse. We all know in our heart of hearts exactly where we stand (that's where my higher power resides). We are all entitled to make our own choices and should be respectful of each others decisions (even if we don't agree on them). I wish you well and it's obvious that you've learned quite a bit in the last 17 months, I'll keep my eye out for you on here in any case.

Scott

Dave Harm · Senior Member

As someone who had a slip many years ago, I'd like to share my story. I had 5 and a half years sobriety under my belt and I began wondering - "was it really that bad?" I mean sure I did some stupid things, but on the whole I still could control my drinking. (Or so I thought.)

So I decided that I wasn't an alcoholic and went back to drinking. The trust and respect I had built back up in those five years left in a hurry.

Two and a half years later, I finally accepted defeat. But in those two and a half years I destroyed everything I had managed to rebuild. It cost me a marriage, my children, and a job.

I've now been sober over 13 years and till this day the only words I hear from those kids is anger and hatred. They still have memories of my final days of terror.

The one thing I learned and I preach to every one I meet. If you have a slip - fine - we're human. But get back to AA as soon as you can. But to avoid that slip just stay with AA. Because there is one promise I can guarantee - if you decide to do more "research" - you will find newer lows.

If you thought it was bad before - just wait - it will get worse. Really, is it worth the risk?

Creating Dreams, from the nightmares of hell...

-- Edited by Dave Harm at 21:26, 2008-02-17

learning · MIP Old Timer

I cannot say what it is like to be alcoholic. I CAN tell you that from my perspective
the fellows are right. Through my eyes (and personal experience living with an alcoholic)
what Dave said hits the bullseye. AH would quit for short periods... for me it was heaven.
I cannot speak for him what it was like. I CAN tell you as the years passed the disease
became progressive even after periods of sobriety. To this day via our children he still
has yet to come to terms with it. They have individually asked for him to quit. But as we all know it is HIS choice and there isn't a blessed thing we can do. His health is once again in jeopardy according to one son.
For me this site and program have been a tremendous help in coping....not just with
alcoholism, but other issues as well. I see things alot differently and do things differently.
I may not come here every night, but the steps are now sort of imbibed in my being so I
can apply them daily. However, when I get lax for too long, that is when things seem to fall apart/go awry. I return, regroup, and garner strength.
Dean is right about sobriety in that it is not a limitation nor are the 12 steps. If anything,
one's blessings, or the little miracles become clearer to us and we appreciate them more.
With each acheivement there seems to be an inner drive to achieve more towards whatever
goals we have set for ourselves. As a whole our entire life just plain becomes more enriched
and we feel happier and fulfilled even doing the little things that seem so mundane.
FOR ME....alot of my religious upbringing has sort of come back to haunt me. In a good way. Went through instructions for 12yrs., to church on Sundays ect ect. Then it fell by
the wayside.....didn't think about those things. Then disaster....Alcoholism touch my life
I was lost, devastated, couldn't cope and could feel myself loosing control.....over me.
Anger, complaining ect ect. ect. I was hitting bottom and realized I needed help. Ended
up here coupled with sessions with a physcologist, but mostly the wisdom of a kindly priest.
OMG......they were saying the same as the 12 steps. As this was realized I began to change.
I also realized I could not be lax in allowing these things to go by the wayside.
So to sum it up one has to keep at it on a daily basis.
I hope you'll stay. Wish you well (and I do mean WELL) whatever your desicion.
Wanda

cooncatbob · Senior Member

It's a bad sign when a Alcoholic says "I've been thinking".
If you feel constricted by recovery maybe you're receiving conflicting information.
There are no rules you can lead any life that you choose.
My observations are that it's easier to stay here then it is get here. Those that decide to do further research aren't always able to find their way back even though they try and the door is always open.
If I were you I wouldn't just think about it I would pray about it. I would also seek the advise of those who's opinion I value outside the world of recovery.
Good luck. Bob.

jonijoni · MIP Old Timer

"I've been thinking..."

When I have had that thought regarding AA's spiritual journey that I am on, it has meant disaster for me every time. But maybe you are different ? Only you can decide if you truly are an alcoholic who had, at one point come to the end of herself. Only you can decide if it is right for you to take the 17 months AA has given to you and move on....

I say this with the utmost of love and understanding, Danielle. you seem to be at a point where you do not want to dig any deeper, and that is ok, but you don't have to leave AA in order to "take it slowly". You don't have to leave AA in order to move to the second level. I have found that the second level is right here in AA, and not out there looking for "something else"......

I don't know what it is that has made you fearful or suspecting of continuing the journey. But I urge you to give it a second thought. What could be so wrong with finding a Higher Power, finding your true self, and being able to share that joy with others? I do not have the answers, and I am terribly sad to see you go. But perhaps you will be back, as AA's message never leaves us once we have it within us.

I am going to keep a copy of your statement, because it is important for me to recognize that I have felt the way you have too... but I do not want to go back there. I mean no harm in this reply, but as a loving person who cares for each and every person here, including YOU, I speak the truth here; the truth of what has happened to me, and what I have seen in the past decades. I would rather tell you my true feelings which are painful, than to lie to you and be agreeable.

We are always here for you, Danieall. ALWAYS, and with open arms. I hope you find what you are looking for, Danielle. and if it all works out for you, then I am very very happy for you. I have to remember that I don't always know what someone else's path is supposed to be. Please just take care of yourself, from your HEART, no matter what....

Love,
Joni

Quetzal · MIP Old Timer

Hi Danielle,

I had eight weeks sobriety and then decided that I wasn't an alcoholic. It took me a very long and horrendous eighteen months to get back to AA. But, that's just me and we are all different. Only you can truly decide what you want/need to do and if you are an alcoholic or not.

Please know that we're all here for you. Please let us know how things go for you, won't you?

Take care,

Carol

Doll · MIP Old Timer

Hmmmm........Prayers going up for ya, gal.
((hugs)) and love

TenderheartsKS · Senior Member

My best thinking darned near killed me! biggrin

To paraphrase from the Big Book or the 12 and 12 (can't remember which), I did think I could float on my intellectual cloud above the rest of my fellows hmm

lani · MIP Old Timer

Wow Danielle!
Can you feel the love of all of us that have responded!? I dont think while I was out there I had that many friends who really cared! Arent we blessed! I have to say it saddens me to read where your at. You have grown into such a great person and look at all the positives in your life. Those which I can personally say wouldnt have happened on your own.
Im sharing with permission from my husband something. He was sober for 5 years when he started "thinking" AA wasnt for him. So at first of course I was happy because he was back to partying which gave me free reign to party also. Boy we had some fun! Then the fun turned to abuse, losing jobs, almost losing our home, kids scared and hating us both. DWI charges, trashing his car, almost killing our relationship , let alone our family and friends. Damn I was so glad he was back out there!!!! Sick ass thinking!!! So, as always, I could go on and on about why you should stick around! Everyone that shared is right on you know. They have personally experienced what your going through. I dont care that we should let you make your own desicions and all that crap cause I really dont believe it for a second! I feel that you are crying out for help, whether you agree or not, and we are so here for you! Lots of good stuff I could quote from the big book, but from the bottom of my heart...If your really thinking of just giving this all up, Think and PRAY again! Youre not even 1\2 way there to have more of the great promises to come true in your life!
And of course, check in, leave your email and let us know how its going! Im sure you'll have lots to share!! And know, if I lived near you I would first kick your ass and then take you to a meeting!!!!
Love ya girl!!!!!! Lani

timverton · MIP Old Timer

'"I want to live a life on different terms. Not in the terms of Twelve Steps. Dare I say but I find them limiting." Is not a limiting, a reining in, what we alcoholics needed or continue to need? You sound entrapped, but why? Life is what you make it my dear friend Danielle. If you are ready to step out and take another adventure, we will be here with open arms, ears, and minds awaiting for your check-in to let us know that you are o.k. I honestly wish the very best for you. You are intelligent and seem most sincere in all that you speak. I hope that combination brings you down a path of greater sucess and understanding of both your self and its place in our cosmos. With love in friendship...Tim

Tuggboat · Senior Member

I wrote a long thing that would have kept you sober but I erased it.

If you can drink like normal people Our hats are off to you and wish you well. If you want to drink thats your business. If you want to stop thats ours.

cooncatbob · Senior Member

I think this was a good bye letter rather then asking for advise as Danielle hasn't logged on since she started this topic.
The heart breaking thing for me about recovery has always been the turnover.
When I got sober 20 people picked up their 30 day chips with me at the monthly speaker/birthday meeting. When I got a year there were only 5 of us left. I've moved from that area but I still return some years to get my chip (chips don't mean as much to me anymore) and it's like 90% strangers and only 3 people left who got clean around the same time as me.
I've had to learn a certain amount of detachment, I have no control over who stays and who goes.
I've seen people who looked like model 12 steppers drop by the wayside and I've seen people who struggled for years not only get it but prosper not only in the 12 step world but in the world at large. I know people who have gone back to school and gotten their degrees and masters degrees.
I don't understand how someone can feel that recovery puts limits on their dreams.
This is the place where dreams truly come true every day.
Bob.

-- Edited by cooncatbob at 20:46, 2008-02-19

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Thankyou everyone for your care & words & ES&H as you've always given. It wasn't a letter to seek advice but to share my thoughts & perhaps gain your blessing. Rather than a cry for help, more an opportunity for unconditional love & positive regard as I've come to understand the Program & Fellowship to mean. Those thoughts were equally not without their humour as we know how ironic life can be.

The limits I referred to are those as I found self~imposed by my own beliefs & interpretations. I want to shake off those shackles as influenced by AA until experience teaches me a deeper understanding for accepting insights as given by the Program or otherwise. There is no intellectual cloud above anyone here just a path of the heart & an intention to find out for myself what I'm wanting to know. I believe without a shadow of a doubt everything everyone here has experienced. I need to trust my own too. I am & will pray daily for God's will for me & to walk the right path for me.

It may well be not to take a drink for some time yet if ever. It's always 1Day@aTime & I'm hoping & glad to feel I may still have that choice. The hard bite of experience will teach me that too if it's otherwise. Like I said, it's not a rash decision. It may well be the Gr8Experiment. I hope I don't end up back on my ass. I always just wanted confidence & self~belief.. Autonomy & to feel ok to be me with whatever idiosyncrasies. AA will always be in my heart & I hope to carry that understanding for others I meet in recovery too.

It's a means to an end at the end of the day & I love everything it's taught me. For me, these are universal truths that cross so many divides & genres. That's what I love about AA but not what makes it the be all & end all for me. When I've crossed another divide I might just learn the special kind of humility it takes to give ourselves completely to this simple program. For those amongst us already capable.. Long may it continue. God bless yous all. Never too far away ~ Danielle x

-- Edited by Sobrietyspell on Thursday 19th of November 2009 09:30:38 AM

Sept_19_2002 · Veteran Member

Hi Daniella,

Thanks for your message to me and for posting on somanythanks. I just read your post "I've been thinking" and it appears you certainly have.

I've been clean and sober since Sept 19 1992, I know my name here is 2002. I was a little nervous being here when I signed up as I haven't been to many meetings since I took my 1 year cake.

I understand and respect your choice to leave. For me the not drinking is not an option as it truly cripples me and makes my life unmanageable. I would certainly die. I look at it as if I was handicapped, accepted it and have moved on.

The program has however given me a chance to help myself and find my own program, a way of life that works for me. The presence of a higher power in my life gives me the strength to live life on life's terms.

My faith and spirituality comes from the tools I found in AA, the Bible, the awesomeness of life, the laughter of children, the love I found within me. The list is endless.

Coming to terms with the great fear, a healthy and respected fear of not drinking has kept many from drinking again and bless us all as we're better people because of it.

Even though I don't go to many meetings any more I have them everyday in my prayers and with my approach to dealing with things. My higher power, God guides me and His love offers me tools I can use to help myself. He actually trusts me with them. My favorite tool is love.

By reading your words and hearing your thoughts beneath them I see your higher power has given you some good ones too. They will always be yours whether you drink, do drugs or whatever.

The gift of unconditional love will always be there and on every path you take smile

Thanks for being here today.