"Faith without works was dead"....What does that mean to you?
Stepchild said
Nov 29, 2013
"Faith without works was dead, he said. And how appallingly true for the alcoholic! For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. If he did not work, he would surely drink again, and if he drank, he would surely die. Then faith would be dead indeed. With us it is just like that."
BB pgs 14-15 Bill's Story
I guess for me it's exactly how it's decsribed in the book...I ran into a friend at a meeting Friday night I hadn't seen in three months....He was coming back...Thank God. I talked to him after the meeting....It was his second meeting back. He told me he just drifted from what he had been doing...He handed over a Big Book meeting he had run for years...Stopped going to meetings all together....Most importantly....He'd given up on steps 10 through 12....Especially step 11...His spiritual progress....Ceased. He had a terrible arguement with his son....Also alcoholic....And he found himself sitting at a bar....He told me he had blown 7 grand in the last three months...Booze and drugs...He was beaten and broke. He didn't die....Thank God....And from what he told me....He learned from it.....And so did I.
He had 4 years sober and I learned a lot from him.....I told him he had a great message that he should be sharing with newcomers....And that now he could add what doesn't work to it.....He liked that. It was great to see him back.
tomsteve said
Nov 29, 2013
I can sit in the garage all day but it wont make me a car.
must not rest on my laurels.
2granddaughters said
Nov 29, 2013
Faith without work is a lot like going to school for 10 yrs. and at the end finding that you are still in the same grade as when you started.
Great post !
All the best.
Bob R
Philipld said
Nov 29, 2013
Yupper!!
Stayed sober in the programme for 22 years...Things got TOO GOOD
Then quit doing the DO THINGS....
One nice bright sunny day? after 4 months of resting on my laurels?
I picked up a 6 pack and went for a country drive...
Didn't even think about it....
Slowly as it works its disease...cunning and baffling....as it is..
Six years later I faced death...
Doesnt matter how long a persons been sober....
We are one drink away...from insanity
Stepchild said
Nov 29, 2013
Amen to that. I'm glad you're back Philip.
Pythonpappy said
Nov 29, 2013
Faith without works for me is 'all of the above' and then some ... 'Faith' is definitely something you don't hoard ... it's like having a 'miracle cure', you don't want to keep something like that secret ... if you don't do the 'works' to help others to get the cure, then eventually you'll find yourself 'by yourself' ... ... ... what a lonely life that would be ...
The 'works' part of faith for me is having excitement about having this cure, it's something like 'spreading the news' type of thing ... it's made such a difference in my life, I want everyone to have it ... Even the non-alcoholics ...
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Friday 29th of November 2013 04:06:17 PM
gonee said
Nov 29, 2013
My sponsor only used one phrase when he spoke to me: "Pass it on, Gonee."
"Cunning, baffling,powerful." Never to be underestimated.
Sober Strummer said
Nov 29, 2013
Since it is bible verse, the total context explains it very well. From the book of James.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
To me I see it In me when I know to do something and I don't. My knowledge is lifeless. It does me no good.
In others, when I see someone that comes to meetings and never works the program. In time, the life saving power will not be there when needed.
Pythonpappy said
Nov 29, 2013
Great stuff guys, this is the 'meat' of our program for sure ... ... ... you know what I'm say'n ... you can't keep it if you don't give it away!!!
Philipld said
Nov 29, 2013
You moving to Atlanta Pappy? The home of the Atlanta Braves :)
12 years ago..I met a chick on here..needed help...big time.. from Columbia SC...
Loaded up my wagon with furniture..and headed out...22 hour drive..
On the way back to Ontario Canada? I took a wrong turn..and wound up in Atlanta..
Should have stayed and watched a ball game..but didn't...:)
Pythonpappy said
Nov 29, 2013
LMAO Phil, ... yep you went southwest when you should have gone north for sure (hope the 'chick' was worth it, LOL ... I mean for you to get so turned around 'n all ... eh?) ... oh boy, the Braves, man oh man, when Chipper retired, I believe that was it for them ... they've always struggled and seem to always make it to the play-offs only to come short and wait for the next season ... They do have one World Series with manager Bobby Cox ... in 1995 ... he's gone now too ... one of Baseball's all-time winningest coaches ...
Sorry man, I'm leaving the Atlanta area, after 12 years, and going north to the Nashville, Tenn. area ... close to our kids ... 39 and 33 ... (youngest just had a birthday) ... the wife got herself transferred, and I don't do well without someone tell'n me what to do, LOL ... so I guess I should move up there to be with her ... (we have role reversal here, LOL)(but I don't mind cook'n and clean'n and building things and fix'n things) ... (It gives me plenty of time, normally, to work with AA stuff, both here and in meetings ... gotta put finding a new 'home group' at the top of my list, now that I think'n 'bout it ... ... ...
What is it about that cold country that keeps you people up there ??? ... I've been to Niagra Falls a few times on the Canadian side and it's absolutely gorgeous ... ... ... but I couldn't stay up there in the Wintertime, no way ... think I might catch 'brain freeze' or somp'n .... ... LOL
betterthanyesterday52 said
Nov 29, 2013
Great posts...still learning from all of you.
(I'm like you about the cold Pappy. After the meeting, I had to run in and jump in a warm tub of water to get my circulation back and it isn't nearly as cold here as it's gonna get.)
Stepchild said
Nov 29, 2013
Sober Strummer wrote:
Since it is bible verse, the total context explains it very well. From the book of James.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
To me I see it In me when I know to do something and I don't. My knowledge is lifeless. It does me no good.
In others, when I see someone that comes to meetings and never works the program. In time, the life saving power will not be there when needed.
Good stuff....I like that SS.
Philipld said
Nov 30, 2013
Nashville Pappy? You gonna get yourself a geetar and play the Grande Ole Opry? :)
Too bad about Bobby...He was a good guy and a good coach.
Canada? Well....Most medical is paid for and Senior citizens only pay 4 dollars for a prescription
It takes 10 beers to get hammered instead of 20 US
When its cold? We get to cuddle..thats why most babies are born in July :)
We grow good weed
You can ski or go sledding or just slide on your butt
You never get bored with one season
The only downside?
Yu hafta wear a helmet or you might get hit with hockey pucks :)
Pythonpappy said
Nov 30, 2013
Philipld wrote:
Nashville Pappy? You gonna get yourself a geetar and play the Grande Ole Opry? :)
When its cold? We get to cuddle..thats why most babies are born in July :)
Well Phil, I did try my hand at the geetar, but being left handed, AND with very little musical talent, I gave that up ... so I went about just listening to the Grand Ole Opry and drinking to all the 'cheat'n and drink'n songs ... ... ... Ya know?"?? ... it took me a year or so before I could listen to country music without getting the urge to drink again ... but now I can sit back, identify with the music cause 'I been there, done that' ... and have a glass of cold sweet tea or hot coffee ...
LMAO r.e. the cold weather ... you gotta July birthday Phil ??? ... LMAO ...
Oh, I meant to ask ... when I was a kid, in the late 50's early 60's I think, we went to Canada and when we went out to eat we had ordered french fries and they served vinegar instead of catsup with them ... I'll never forget that ... seems as though they served other odd condiments with other foods too ... y'all still do that up there ??? ... ... ... My memory is a little fuzzy sometimes so I think that's what they did !!! ...
Philipld said
Nov 30, 2013
French fries with vinegar...salt...ketchup...and top it all off with gravy if you wish to :)
Pythonpappy said
Nov 30, 2013
Actually, that does sound kinda good!!!
Can ya get grits up there ??? ... ya can't eat eggs, biscuits, and gravy without grits!!!
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Saturday 30th of November 2013 07:52:34 PM
Philipld said
Nov 30, 2013
No grits.....
Fry up a half pound of bacon plus 3 eggs..plus the fries and gravy.....plus 4 pieces of toast
Diet food...:)
betterthanyesterday52 said
Nov 30, 2013
Now I'm getting hungry. That sounds delicious!
Pythonpappy said
Nov 30, 2013
Dag gum, ... I'm start'n ta get hungry now too ... but I still want my grits ... eggs over easy with a runny yolk over the grits w/a little butter, salt, and pepper ... dip my biscuit in the gravy and 'pig out' ... ummmmm ...
All my pots 'n pans are on a semi trailer somewhere, noth'n to cook with ... even my toaster is gone ... I didn't think this out very well did I ??? .... can't wait to move in to the new place next Thursday ... unpack the kitchen first is what I'm thinking now, LOL ... only thing is, they predict 1.8 inches of rain that day at the moment ... :(
Hope there's a 'Cracker Barrel' nearby ...
Fyne Spirit said
Dec 1, 2013
Always a sponsee, never a sponsor.
God bless,
MikeH.
Mike D said
Dec 2, 2013
Hi to all of you. Love this topic! It's an eye-opener. While I've always learned a lot from folks who have stayed sober, I guess I'd have to say that maybe I've learned a lot more from those who have relapsed periodically. Over the years, I've sat in countless A.A. meetings where people who had once had several months or years of sobriety, had to announce that they were back from a terrible and sickening relapse. Of course, we'd all gladly welcome them back and offer them hope and encouragement as we'd share around the tables. After the meeting, many members would gather around them out in the parking lot to share bits of advice and personal experiences with their own sobriety. Once the crowd had diminished, though, I'd do something different. As troubling as their recent relapse was to me, it also made me curious. So, I would always approach the person and engage them privately. I had no gems of advice to give them....I just had a question. "What Step were you working when you relapsed??" I always got the same two responses every time: At first, they'd look at me like I'd just stepped off a purple spaceship from Mars. Then, after a few minutes of thought, they'd tell me that they were not working any of the Steps when they relapsed. Actually, they were....between Steps. While some of them were supposed to be writing a Fourth Step inventory, quite a few others were supposed to be making their Ninth Step amends. Almost without fail, they were supposed to be working on Step Four or Step Nine. They just hadn't quite gotten around to it yet. So, at the point of their relapse, they were not doing anything. This hit me hard. It made me question myself. What am I supposed to be doing right now? Am I working the Steps? While I've gained much from asking questions of others in A.A., I've also gained plenty from questioning myself. Thanks for letting me share. Blessings, Mike D.
Sober Strummer said
Dec 2, 2013
Great thought provoking replies.
An old saying, if you're not growing you're going...
RubyTues said
Dec 3, 2013
Great topic. For me, works is DOING the program. Going to meetings. Reaching out. Always working the steps. Not resting on my laurels and the hard work I've done already, but always looking to go deeper.
Jamiel1241 said
November 8th
J'étais en train de cuisiner un dîner spécial pour des invités et je voulais un peu de distraction pour rendre le moment plus léger. J'ai décidé de chercher une plateforme avec un parfum français pour ajouter une touche culturelle pendant que je préparais. J'ai trouvé un site intéressant nommé spinogambino qui m'a captivé dès le début avec ses options variées et engageantes. Ce lien, originaire de France, regorge de jeux divers comme des machines à sous colorées et thématiques, des tables de cartes classiques et stratégiques, des sessions en direct avec un style typiquement français qui évoque les lumières scintillantes de Paris et l'élégance des boulevards parisiens. Les bonus sont vraiment attractifs et bien conçus, pour les nouveaux arrivants il y a un paquet de bienvenue avec de l'argent supplémentaire substantiel et des tours gratuits nombreux qui te permettent de commencer en beauté sans trop dépenser initialement, plus des promotions hebdomadaires comme du cashback généreux qui te motivent à revenir souvent et à explorer davantage, sans oublier les offres saisonnières spéciales qui ajoutent de la variété et de l'excitation à chaque visite, rendant l'expérience plus immersive et personnalisée pour tous les goûts.
gldart said
November 23rd
Ciao, il mio sogno era un set di valigie rigide e leggere per i miei viaggi di lavoro, ma i set completi costavano troppo. Un collega viaggiatore frequente mi ha parlato di https://vegas-hero.it, evidenziando i loro bonus weekend per i giocatori italiani. I primi tentativi sono stati fallimentari, una serie di giri negativi mi ha quasi fatto desistere. All'ultimo momento, ho deciso di alzare la posta su un gioco a tema viaggi e, con mio grande stupore, ho vinto un premio che ha coperto l'intero set di valigie. Per i viaggiatori italiani, è stata la soluzione perfetta.
"Faith without works was dead, he said. And how appallingly true for
the alcoholic! For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his
spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could
not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. If he did not
work, he would surely drink again, and if he drank, he would surely
die. Then faith would be dead indeed. With us it is just like that."
BB pgs 14-15 Bill's Story
I guess for me it's exactly how it's decsribed in the book...I ran into a friend at a meeting Friday night I hadn't seen in three months....He was coming back...Thank God. I talked to him after the meeting....It was his second meeting back. He told me he just drifted from what he had been doing...He handed over a Big Book meeting he had run for years...Stopped going to meetings all together....Most importantly....He'd given up on steps 10 through 12....Especially step 11...His spiritual progress....Ceased. He had a terrible arguement with his son....Also alcoholic....And he found himself sitting at a bar....He told me he had blown 7 grand in the last three months...Booze and drugs...He was beaten and broke. He didn't die....Thank God....And from what he told me....He learned from it.....And so did I.
He had 4 years sober and I learned a lot from him.....I told him he had a great message that he should be sharing with newcomers....And that now he could add what doesn't work to it.....He liked that. It was great to see him back.
must not rest on my laurels.
Great post !
All the best.
Bob R
Yupper!!
Stayed sober in the programme for 22 years...Things got TOO GOOD
Then quit doing the DO THINGS....
One nice bright sunny day? after 4 months of resting on my laurels?
I picked up a 6 pack and went for a country drive...
Didn't even think about it....
Slowly as it works its disease...cunning and baffling....as it is..
Six years later I faced death...
Doesnt matter how long a persons been sober....
We are one drink away...from insanity
Faith without works for me is 'all of the above' and then some ... 'Faith' is definitely something you don't hoard ... it's like having a 'miracle cure', you don't want to keep something like that secret ... if you don't do the 'works' to help others to get the cure, then eventually you'll find yourself 'by yourself' ... ... ... what a lonely life that would be ...
The 'works' part of faith for me is having excitement about having this cure, it's something like 'spreading the news' type of thing ... it's made such a difference in my life, I want everyone to have it ... Even the non-alcoholics ...
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Friday 29th of November 2013 04:06:17 PM
"Cunning, baffling,powerful." Never to be underestimated.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
To me I see it In me when I know to do something and I don't. My knowledge is lifeless. It does me no good.
In others, when I see someone that comes to meetings and never works the program. In time, the life saving power will not be there when needed.
Great stuff guys, this is the 'meat' of our program for sure ... ... ... you know what I'm say'n ... you can't keep it if you don't give it away!!!
You moving to Atlanta Pappy? The home of the Atlanta Braves :)
12 years ago..I met a chick on here..needed help...big time.. from Columbia SC...
Loaded up my wagon with furniture..and headed out...22 hour drive..
On the way back to Ontario Canada? I took a wrong turn..and wound up in Atlanta..
Should have stayed and watched a ball game..but didn't...:)
LMAO Phil, ... yep you went southwest when you should have gone north for sure (hope the 'chick' was worth it, LOL ... I mean for you to get so turned around 'n all ... eh?) ... oh boy, the Braves, man oh man, when Chipper retired, I believe that was it for them ... they've always struggled and seem to always make it to the play-offs only to come short and wait for the next season ... They do have one World Series with manager Bobby Cox ... in 1995 ... he's gone now too ... one of Baseball's all-time winningest coaches ...
Sorry man, I'm leaving the Atlanta area, after 12 years, and going north to the Nashville, Tenn. area ... close to our kids ... 39 and 33 ... (youngest just had a birthday) ... the wife got herself transferred, and I don't do well without someone tell'n me what to do, LOL ... so I guess I should move up there to be with her ... (we have role reversal here, LOL)(but I don't mind cook'n and clean'n and building things and fix'n things) ... (It gives me plenty of time, normally, to work with AA stuff, both here and in meetings ... gotta put finding a new 'home group' at the top of my list, now that I think'n 'bout it ... ... ...
What is it about that cold country that keeps you people up there ??? ... I've been to Niagra Falls a few times on the Canadian side and it's absolutely gorgeous ... ... ... but I couldn't stay up there in the Wintertime, no way ... think I might catch 'brain freeze' or somp'n .... ... LOL
(I'm like you about the cold Pappy. After the meeting, I had to run in and jump in a warm tub of water to get my circulation back and it isn't nearly as cold here as it's gonna get.)
Good stuff....I like that SS.
Nashville Pappy? You gonna get yourself a geetar and play the Grande Ole Opry? :)
Too bad about Bobby...He was a good guy and a good coach.
Canada? Well....Most medical is paid for and Senior citizens only pay 4 dollars for a prescription
It takes 10 beers to get hammered instead of 20 US
When its cold? We get to cuddle..thats why most babies are born in July :)
We grow good weed
You can ski or go sledding or just slide on your butt
You never get bored with one season
The only downside?
Yu hafta wear a helmet or you might get hit with hockey pucks :)
Well Phil, I did try my hand at the geetar, but being left handed, AND with very little musical talent, I gave that up ... so I went about just listening to the Grand Ole Opry and drinking to all the 'cheat'n and drink'n songs ... ... ... Ya know?"?? ... it took me a year or so before I could listen to country music without getting the urge to drink again ... but now I can sit back, identify with the music cause 'I been there, done that' ... and have a glass of cold sweet tea or hot coffee ...
LMAO r.e. the cold weather ... you gotta July birthday Phil ??? ... LMAO ...
Oh, I meant to ask ... when I was a kid, in the late 50's early 60's I think, we went to Canada and when we went out to eat we had ordered french fries and they served vinegar instead of catsup with them ... I'll never forget that ... seems as though they served other odd condiments with other foods too ... y'all still do that up there ??? ... ... ... My memory is a little fuzzy sometimes so I think that's what they did !!! ...
French fries with vinegar...salt...ketchup...and top it all off with gravy if you wish to :)
Actually, that does sound kinda good!!!
Can ya get grits up there ??? ... ya can't eat eggs, biscuits, and gravy without grits!!!
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Saturday 30th of November 2013 07:52:34 PM
No grits.....
Fry up a half pound of bacon plus 3 eggs..plus the fries and gravy.....plus 4 pieces of toast
Diet food...:)
Dag gum, ... I'm start'n ta get hungry now too ... but I still want my grits ... eggs over easy with a runny yolk over the grits w/a little butter, salt, and pepper ... dip my biscuit in the gravy and 'pig out' ... ummmmm ...
All my pots 'n pans are on a semi trailer somewhere, noth'n to cook with ... even my toaster is gone ... I didn't think this out very well did I ??? .... can't wait to move in to the new place next Thursday ... unpack the kitchen first is what I'm thinking now, LOL ... only thing is, they predict 1.8 inches of rain that day at the moment ... :(
Hope there's a 'Cracker Barrel' nearby ...
God bless,
MikeH.
Hi to all of you. Love this topic! It's an eye-opener. While I've always learned a lot from folks who have stayed sober, I guess I'd have to say that maybe I've learned a lot more from those who have relapsed periodically. Over the years, I've sat in countless A.A. meetings where people who had once had several months or years of sobriety, had to announce that they were back from a terrible and sickening relapse. Of course, we'd all gladly welcome them back and offer them hope and encouragement as we'd share around the tables. After the meeting, many members would gather around them out in the parking lot to share bits of advice and personal experiences with their own sobriety. Once the crowd had diminished, though, I'd do something different. As troubling as their recent relapse was to me, it also made me curious. So, I would always approach the person and engage them privately. I had no gems of advice to give them....I just had a question. "What Step were you working when you relapsed??" I always got the same two responses every time: At first, they'd look at me like I'd just stepped off a purple spaceship from Mars. Then, after a few minutes of thought, they'd tell me that they were not working any of the Steps when they relapsed. Actually, they were....between Steps. While some of them were supposed to be writing a Fourth Step inventory, quite a few others were supposed to be making their Ninth Step amends. Almost without fail, they were supposed to be working on Step Four or Step Nine. They just hadn't quite gotten around to it yet. So, at the point of their relapse, they were not doing anything. This hit me hard. It made me question myself. What am I supposed to be doing right now? Am I working the Steps? While I've gained much from asking questions of others in A.A., I've also gained plenty from questioning myself. Thanks for letting me share. Blessings, Mike D.
J'étais en train de cuisiner un dîner spécial pour des invités et je voulais un peu de distraction pour rendre le moment plus léger. J'ai décidé de chercher une plateforme avec un parfum français pour ajouter une touche culturelle pendant que je préparais. J'ai trouvé un site intéressant nommé spinogambino qui m'a captivé dès le début avec ses options variées et engageantes. Ce lien, originaire de France, regorge de jeux divers comme des machines à sous colorées et thématiques, des tables de cartes classiques et stratégiques, des sessions en direct avec un style typiquement français qui évoque les lumières scintillantes de Paris et l'élégance des boulevards parisiens. Les bonus sont vraiment attractifs et bien conçus, pour les nouveaux arrivants il y a un paquet de bienvenue avec de l'argent supplémentaire substantiel et des tours gratuits nombreux qui te permettent de commencer en beauté sans trop dépenser initialement, plus des promotions hebdomadaires comme du cashback généreux qui te motivent à revenir souvent et à explorer davantage, sans oublier les offres saisonnières spéciales qui ajoutent de la variété et de l'excitation à chaque visite, rendant l'expérience plus immersive et personnalisée pour tous les goûts.
Ciao, il mio sogno era un set di valigie rigide e leggere per i miei viaggi di lavoro, ma i set completi costavano troppo. Un collega viaggiatore frequente mi ha parlato di https://vegas-hero.it, evidenziando i loro bonus weekend per i giocatori italiani. I primi tentativi sono stati fallimentari, una serie di giri negativi mi ha quasi fatto desistere. All'ultimo momento, ho deciso di alzare la posta su un gioco a tema viaggi e, con mio grande stupore, ho vinto un premio che ha coperto l'intero set di valigie. Per i viaggiatori italiani, è stata la soluzione perfetta.