Has anyone heard this saying in AA, it is new to me.
Closer.
vixen said
Aug 20, 2012
HALT is a technique for dealing with a craving. Moreover, in concept HALT is covered in the AA booklet "Living Sober":
H: Ch 9 - Eating or Drinking Something - Usually, Sweet A: Ch 15 - Watching out for Anger and Resentments L: Ch 14 - Fending off Loneliness T: Ch 12 - Getting Plenty of Rest
I copied the above from another recovery site. It has been mentioned in meetings I attend as well. :)
Mr_David said
Aug 20, 2012
Yeah, It's well known throughout A.A. -Closer. Vixen's response above is quite accurate, except for the P. The 'P' in our area stands for, well, you guessed it "P." The part that has to do with bathrooms, if you get my drift. I know, it sounds a bit weird, but you get the point.
Rob84 said
Aug 20, 2012
Closer,
Yes, heard it early on in recovery.
It's been great advice for my recovery.
Thanks,
vixen said
Aug 20, 2012
Not argumentative at all, bbthumper! I like hearing how other people work this program and am grateful when people share in a respectful manner, which you excel at. Once again I finding myself nodding in agreement with you and would only add that it is, as you said, through the 12 steps that sanity is restored and many of the people in the rooms have not completed step work and have not had the obsession released yet, though they are on the way. The suggestions in Living Sober, including the ones covering HALT, seem helpful for those who haven't had that spiritual awakening.
Blessings right back at ya. :)
-- Edited by vixen on Monday 20th of August 2012 01:19:31 PM
bbthumper said
Aug 20, 2012
I have heard this a lot in meetings. I have to be honest, I cringe when I hear HALT at meetings. Its the same thing with "triggers." I feel like it is throwing the idea of powerlessness right out the window. Like we are saying "If we manage well, keep ourselves well fed and well rested we can stay sober." Or "if we can avoid stressful situations we'll be alright."
My alcoholism is not caused by anything external. It is an internal, spiritual malady which must be dealt with on a spiritual level. We cannot always avoid "triggers" or becoming hungry, angry, lonely or tired. These things happen. Lets say I am hungry and tired and I take a drink. Is it because I was hungry or tired? No. It was because I was spirtually unfit. I must deal with the spiritual malady above all else. Other wise my insane thinking, may alcoholism, my internal sickness tells me that a good way to deal with hunger or anger etc. is to drink.
Okay. Im off my soap box now. I stress the fact that the above is simply my opinion. :)
God bless yall!
Tanin said
Aug 20, 2012
bbthumper wrote:
vixen wrote:
I agree, bbthumper, but I also think coping skills can be a part of a spiritual life. I don't think my God wants me to suffer and if I can avoid situations which create a physical response in my body I see no harm in it. For many alcoholics, being hungry increases a craving for alcohol due to a physical need being unmet. If I know to avoid being hungry I will not have to experience that craving. It isn't a question of being well fed keeping me sober as much as it is keeping me from being unnecessarily uncomfortable. I think it is crucial to work a good program and to have a deep relationship with God, but I am open to using every tool in the box as well. :)
I hear ya. And I can agree. In that light, of course HALT is useful to anyone. Alcoholic or not.
The way I see it though is that, through the 12 steps I am restored to sanity as the book promises. That being said, if I am hungry, angry lonely or tired, I will respond sanely. I will not have a desire to drink because the drink problem has been solved. If I have been thorough in my step work, that is. Taking care of myself comes naturally with a spiritual awakening. I have more respect for my physical body as well as my spiritual self. I of course do not purposely put myself into situations that are harmful to me, but we are all going to run into problems. We cannot avoid being hungry, angry, lonely or tired. We are human, it will happen sometimes. My priority needs to be to remain spiritually fit so that my response to those problems is sane and sound. I try to avoid giving anyone the impression that sobriety is reliant on external circumstances.
Forgive me if that seems argumentative. That's not my intention. I really do respect ya'll's opinions!
God Bless!
It's clear to me that the advice and tips and suggestions in Living Sober are meant to be advice in the practical realm, not the programmatic level of AA. And LS is so qualified: "This booklet does not offer a plan for recovery from alcoholism."
The program of AA is, LS, continues is in the books Alcholics Anonymous and 12&12.
It's not a choice between HALT and step work. It's not a choice between HALT and the lifting of the desire to drink.
LS suggestions are based on experience of AA's from 1939 to the early 1970s. They do not compete with the BB/12&12.
Working the steps does not always mean that a desire to drink goes away. Dr. Bob, had thoughts of drinking for 2.5 years into sobriety. Who worked the steps better than Dr. Bob?
I've seen people who were step-monsters, spirtual giants, and uber-sponsors go out. It's a beautiful thing when the desire to drink is lifted. But it can come back in the blink of an eye, under some circumstances. LS ideas help limit those circumstances.
-- Edited by Tanin on Monday 20th of August 2012 04:35:06 PM
Neophyte said
Aug 20, 2012
Bbt. I respect your opinion, but I think that halt refers more to "take care of yourself." I heard someone say that they know they're headed for a relapse when they neglect to shower for 3 days, brush their teeth or do their laundry. I think that halt simply means to "act as if" (mentioned in either 12&12 or bb) we respect ourselves. Self respect can go a long way in sobriety. Again, I respect your view... And I see your point. Actually I agree. But I do find halt to hold wisdom. Self respecting aaers dint drink til they pass out and pee themselves lol
vixen said
Aug 20, 2012
I agree, bbthumper, but I also think coping skills can be a part of a spiritual life. I don't think my God wants me to suffer and if I can avoid situations which create a physical response in my body I see no harm in it. For many alcoholics, being hungry increases a craving for alcohol due to a physical need being unmet. If I know to avoid being hungry I will not have to experience that craving. It isn't a question of being well fed keeping me sober as much as it is keeping me from being unnecessarily uncomfortable. I think it is crucial to work a good program and to have a deep relationship with God, but I am open to using every tool in the box as well. :)
bbthumper said
Aug 20, 2012
vixen wrote:
I agree, bbthumper, but I also think coping skills can be a part of a spiritual life. I don't think my God wants me to suffer and if I can avoid situations which create a physical response in my body I see no harm in it. For many alcoholics, being hungry increases a craving for alcohol due to a physical need being unmet. If I know to avoid being hungry I will not have to experience that craving. It isn't a question of being well fed keeping me sober as much as it is keeping me from being unnecessarily uncomfortable. I think it is crucial to work a good program and to have a deep relationship with God, but I am open to using every tool in the box as well. :)
I hear ya. And I can agree. In that light, of course HALT is useful to anyone. Alcoholic or not.
The way I see it though is that, through the 12 steps I am restored to sanity as the book promises. That being said, if I am hungry, angry lonely or tired, I will respond sanely. I will not have a desire to drink because the drink problem has been solved. If I have been thorough in my step work, that is. Taking care of myself comes naturally with a spiritual awakening. I have more respect for my physical body as well as my spiritual self. I of course do not purposely put myself into situations that are harmful to me, but we are all going to run into problems. We cannot avoid being hungry, angry, lonely or tired. We are human, it will happen sometimes. My priority needs to be to remain spiritually fit so that my response to those problems is sane and sound. I try to avoid giving anyone the impression that sobriety is reliant on external circumstances.
Forgive me if that seems argumentative. That's not my intention. I really do respect ya'll's opinions!
God Bless!
Db1105 said
Aug 20, 2012
Just because I'm an alcoholic, it doesn't absolve me from being a human being nor does it mean everything in my life is related to my alcoholism. Practicing HALT just makes life a little easier, and to be able to think, feel, and act a little better.
bbthumper said
Aug 20, 2012
vixen wrote:
Not argumentative at all, bbthumper! I like hearing how other people work this program and am grateful when people share in a respectful manner, which you excel at. Once again I finding myself nodding in agreement with you and would only add that it is, as you said, through the 12 steps that sanity is restored and many of the people in the rooms have not completed step work and have not had the obsession released yet, though they are on the way. The suggestions in Living Sober, including the ones covering HALT, seem helpful for those who haven't had that spiritual awakening.
Blessings right back at ya. :)
-- Edited by vixen on Monday 20th of August 2012 01:19:31 PM
Right on board with ya!
12stepsrecovered said
Feb 19, 2014
I agree with most of what bbthumper says, however I don't agree with the last statement that the desire to drink can come back "in the blink of an eye" for someone who has recovered as a result of continued practice of the 12 steps.
Some people at meetings may appear to be step-monsters, spirtual giants, and uber-sponsors, but we have to remember that a lot of people who attend meetings are still spiritually sick. There are plenty of people in AA who quite obviously have not studied the Big Book or even have a good working knowledge of the 12 step program but take on sponsees as a badge of honor and prestige. This is a Big Shotism sort of behaviour common with some alcoholics who have not recovered. Many of these folks use the fellowship only for it's social value, a place to be a leader or recognized as some sort of guru. The do not use the fellowship as forum it was intended to originally be; the teaching and sharing of experience in practising the 12 step program of AA.
Many of these self proclaimed gurus are the folks you hear talk on and on about ideas which never appear in the big book, or have developed their "own" program that is a combination of ideas that sound good that get passed around the fellowship along with some 12 step ideas. (there are a myriad of this kind of mis-information floating around the modern day fellowship that are not AA) for example, "what we do around here is just not drink no matter what, even if our ass falls off" This is NOT AA, it is a fellowship party line that is just NOT AA.
Also, There are plenty of people who "appear" to be spiritual giants or "step monsters" who still cheat on their wives, steal, mistreat their children etc.. etc.. The do talk the big book program but live non-spiritual lives. These are the folks who have NOT RECOVERED and the obsession to drink can surface in the blink of an eye. They do white knuckle or "fellowship sobriety" as my Big Book group calls it.
I personally attend a big book group that only uses the AA book and 12 and 12 for it's meetings. The senior members truly put the 12 steps into there lives. None of these people have been even close to a drink because they have truly experienced and continue to experience THE spiritual awakening promised through continued practice of the steps. They put the steps into their lives each and every day.
HALT is one of the "tricks" proposed by treatment centers and is eluded to in the Living Sober book, which as bbthumpers says, it is NOT where the program of recovery is found. HALT is good for newcommers but does not give the permanent and lasting recovery that the program promises.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
From the forward to the first edition: We of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book.
-- Edited by 12stepsrecovered on Wednesday 19th of February 2014 11:02:07 PM
Pythonpappy said
Feb 20, 2014
Good post Steve, ... and welcome to MIP ...
Pappy
AlexSeen said
November 11th
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Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired! (HALT)
Has anyone heard this saying in AA, it is new to me.
Closer.
H: Ch 9 - Eating or Drinking Something - Usually, Sweet
A: Ch 15 - Watching out for Anger and Resentments
L: Ch 14 - Fending off Loneliness
T: Ch 12 - Getting Plenty of Rest
I copied the above from another recovery site. It has been mentioned in meetings I attend as well. :)
Yeah, It's well known throughout A.A. -Closer. Vixen's response above is quite accurate, except for the P. The 'P' in our area stands for, well, you guessed it "P." The part that has to do with bathrooms, if you get my drift. I know, it sounds a bit weird, but you get the point.
Yes, heard it early on in recovery.
It's been great advice for my recovery.
Thanks,
Not argumentative at all, bbthumper! I like hearing how other people work this program and am grateful when people share in a respectful manner, which you excel at. Once again I finding myself nodding in agreement with you and would only add that it is, as you said, through the 12 steps that sanity is restored and many of the people in the rooms have not completed step work and have not had the obsession released yet, though they are on the way. The suggestions in Living Sober, including the ones covering HALT, seem helpful for those who haven't had that spiritual awakening.
Blessings right back at ya. :)
-- Edited by vixen on Monday 20th of August 2012 01:19:31 PM
I have heard this a lot in meetings. I have to be honest, I cringe when I hear HALT at meetings. Its the same thing with "triggers." I feel like it is throwing the idea of powerlessness right out the window. Like we are saying "If we manage well, keep ourselves well fed and well rested we can stay sober." Or "if we can avoid stressful situations we'll be alright."
My alcoholism is not caused by anything external. It is an internal, spiritual malady which must be dealt with on a spiritual level. We cannot always avoid "triggers" or becoming hungry, angry, lonely or tired. These things happen. Lets say I am hungry and tired and I take a drink. Is it because I was hungry or tired? No. It was because I was spirtually unfit. I must deal with the spiritual malady above all else. Other wise my insane thinking, may alcoholism, my internal sickness tells me that a good way to deal with hunger or anger etc. is to drink.
Okay. Im off my soap box now. I stress the fact that the above is simply my opinion. :)
God bless yall!
It's clear to me that the advice and tips and suggestions in Living Sober are meant to be advice in the practical realm, not the programmatic level of AA. And LS is so qualified: "This booklet does not offer a plan for recovery from alcoholism."
The program of AA is, LS, continues is in the books Alcholics Anonymous and 12&12.
It's not a choice between HALT and step work. It's not a choice between HALT and the lifting of the desire to drink.
LS suggestions are based on experience of AA's from 1939 to the early 1970s. They do not compete with the BB/12&12.
Working the steps does not always mean that a desire to drink goes away. Dr. Bob, had thoughts of drinking for 2.5 years into sobriety. Who worked the steps better than Dr. Bob?
I've seen people who were step-monsters, spirtual giants, and uber-sponsors go out. It's a beautiful thing when the desire to drink is lifted. But it can come back in the blink of an eye, under some circumstances. LS ideas help limit those circumstances.
-- Edited by Tanin on Monday 20th of August 2012 04:35:06 PM
I hear ya. And I can agree. In that light, of course HALT is useful to anyone. Alcoholic or not.
The way I see it though is that, through the 12 steps I am restored to sanity as the book promises. That being said, if I am hungry, angry lonely or tired, I will respond sanely. I will not have a desire to drink because the drink problem has been solved. If I have been thorough in my step work, that is. Taking care of myself comes naturally with a spiritual awakening. I have more respect for my physical body as well as my spiritual self. I of course do not purposely put myself into situations that are harmful to me, but we are all going to run into problems. We cannot avoid being hungry, angry, lonely or tired. We are human, it will happen sometimes. My priority needs to be to remain spiritually fit so that my response to those problems is sane and sound. I try to avoid giving anyone the impression that sobriety is reliant on external circumstances.
Forgive me if that seems argumentative. That's not my intention. I really do respect ya'll's opinions!
God Bless!
Right on board with ya!
I agree with most of what bbthumper says, however I don't agree with the last statement that the desire to drink can come back "in the blink of an eye" for someone who has recovered as a result of continued practice of the 12 steps.
Some people at meetings may appear to be step-monsters, spirtual giants, and uber-sponsors, but we have to remember that a lot of people who attend meetings are still spiritually sick. There are plenty of people in AA who quite obviously have not studied the Big Book or even have a good working knowledge of the 12 step program but take on sponsees as a badge of honor and prestige. This is a Big Shotism sort of behaviour common with some alcoholics who have not recovered. Many of these folks use the fellowship only for it's social value, a place to be a leader or recognized as some sort of guru. The do not use the fellowship as forum it was intended to originally be; the teaching and sharing of experience in practising the 12 step program of AA.
Many of these self proclaimed gurus are the folks you hear talk on and on about ideas which never appear in the big book, or have developed their "own" program that is a combination of ideas that sound good that get passed around the fellowship along with some 12 step ideas. (there are a myriad of this kind of mis-information floating around the modern day fellowship that are not AA) for example, "what we do around here is just not drink no matter what, even if our ass falls off" This is NOT AA, it is a fellowship party line that is just NOT AA.
Also, There are plenty of people who "appear" to be spiritual giants or "step monsters" who still cheat on their wives, steal, mistreat their children etc.. etc.. The do talk the big book program but live non-spiritual lives. These are the folks who have NOT RECOVERED and the obsession to drink can surface in the blink of an eye. They do white knuckle or "fellowship sobriety" as my Big Book group calls it.
I personally attend a big book group that only uses the AA book and 12 and 12 for it's meetings. The senior members truly put the 12 steps into there lives. None of these people have been even close to a drink because they have truly experienced and continue to experience THE spiritual awakening promised through continued practice of the steps. They put the steps into their lives each and every day.
HALT is one of the "tricks" proposed by treatment centers and is eluded to in the Living Sober book, which as bbthumpers says, it is NOT where the program of recovery is found. HALT is good for newcommers but does not give the permanent and lasting recovery that the program promises.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
From the forward to the first edition:
We of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book.
-- Edited by 12stepsrecovered on Wednesday 19th of February 2014 11:02:07 PM
Good post Steve, ... and welcome to MIP ...
Pappy
Ich war auf der Suche nach einem seriösen Casino mit klaren Bonusregeln und fairen Bedingungen. Nach einigen Vergleichen bin ich schließlich bei playjonny gelandet. Schon nach kurzer Zeit hat mir die Seite gefallen sie läuft stabil, bietet viele Slots und auch einige klassische Spiele. Ich finde, dass die Plattform sehr benutzerfreundlich gestaltet ist. Besonders für Schweizer Spieler, die Wert auf Transparenz legen, ist sie ideal geeignet. Ich bleibe auf jeden Fall dort aktiv.