Need literature info on group conscience for inappropriate sexual behavior as new GSR
kamazon said
Nov 22, 2011
Having a group conscience after our regular meeting on Saturday about inappropriate sexual behavior of one of our members. As the new GSR would love to have any online resources you've used on how to conduct the meeting and any experience, strength and hope you have to share. Thank you, Kamazon
Fyne Spirit said
Nov 22, 2011
Hi Kamazon, welcome to MIP
This is an old problem that seems to manifest in different ways. We have at times had problems with predatory behavior by both sexes and our practice has been for one or two older members of the same sex to take the offending member to one side and impress upon them that their behavior is unacceptable. Sometimes quite forcefully. The other issue that seems to crop up is where a member has a history of offending of a sexual nature and discusses this in a mixed sex meeting in an almost boastful way, which can be extremely upsetting especially for victims of such offending. The chair ought to stop this type of sharing immediately but all too often are not experienced enough to do this. Again it is appropriate to remind offenders that our stories disclose in a general way...... Unfortunately, we have a strong element in the fellowship these days who feel anything goes, there are no rules etc, and they are willing to tolerate the intolerable, unless of course something offends their sensibilities in which case their intolerance knows no bounds. It's hard to say if a group conscience is the best way to deal with this, or a more discreet direct approach. Mob justice is something to be avoided if possible, and it is often quite difficult to have an informed group conscience.
The applicable traditions are tradiition 1 - Our common welfare must come first, personal recovery depends upon AA unity. A destructive element/individual in a group, that is to say one that causes direct harm to individual members, will destroy the confidence of the individual members and bring conflict and fear. Under such circumstances the welfare of all is threatened, which harms all members. There are grounds for taking action to correct the behaviour of the offender because the welfare of the group is paramount.
Tradition 5 Each group has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. This implies an obligation that the still suffering alcoholic will be kept safe in the group. In the same way we would not allow say insurance salesmen access to the group for business purposes, we also ought not allow people with problems/issues other than alcohol to find new victims among our members. How would we react to drug pushing or blatant evangalism?
Be wary of mob justice. Remember the offender is a sick person and it is their behaviour that is intolerable, but if they suffer from alcoholism they are entitled to membership in AA. A group conscience with the offender present could go off the rails with serious consequences for the group and offender. My preference would be to either deal with the matter informally with the help of one or two older members or alternatively, through the group conscience, appoint a committee of members knowledgeable in the traditions, to meet with the offender and try to resolve the matter in a firm but loving way.
God bless, Mike H
John said
Nov 25, 2011
There is a story on this board about a woman who in 1941, before our traditions were in place, was kicked out of AA. And was informed of it on the same day that Japan flew over and bombed Pearl Harbor. Her name was Irma Livoni.
The Akron Intergroup archieves have correspondence between Bill W and the group of men who were promoting her "termination" from AA, and in it, it suggest rather clearly she was very promiscuous and hooking up with some of the married men in the group, destroying families and jeapardizing the continued sobriety of those men.
The situation created a good bit of division in the group, and this is what caught Bill's attention. Also he states that this person is spiritually ill, and needs to be treated with an agape love that the the group could use collectively to bring her to a better place of self respect. But that instead of looking so closely at her actions, they might want to also look at the men's actions, as they too were showing signs of not being spiritually fit and destroying their own families and jeapardizing their own recovery by engaging in such behavior.
In the end the letter from Bill to the group states the group needs to protect itself from this sort of distraction at all cost because while they are focused on who is doing what regarding this issue, someone is likely sitting in the background dying of alcoholism that is not even getting noticed.
It is said by a variety of elders in the program at that time that this situation gave birth to the traditions... Tradition 1, Tradition 2, Tradition 3, Tradition 4... and who knows what others...
************
Now, utilizing the Traditions long form, which can be read at http://www.prismnet.com/aamen/trad.html I would believe we can't kick someone out of AA, as stated in Tradition 3 if they have a desire to stop drinking, they do not have to conform to a bunch of rules and regulations, to be a member of this fellowship.
And some will lean on Tradition 4, "Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole." "Well, we arn't kicking them out of AA, but out of our group because... (but arn't we then setting up another group in the area to be the receptor of that preditory behavior?)
I think Tradition 1 and 2 stands out very clearly on this... that the common good of the whole of comes before the good of the individual, and that the group must seek its ultimate authority through a "loving" God as expressed collectively by the group, so unity is heard in its determination of action.
Our group has had to put a member in what I like to refer to as the group "hot seat" at times. What we have found is that the behavior is changed, amends are made and everyone gets back to the primary purpose, or the individual leaves on their own accord, never to be seen again, or at least until the pain of alcoholism propels them back into the rooms with enough force that they final "stick" to the program and not try to "stick" its members. :)
Each group needs to find that spiritual solution which allows us to practice the principles of this program and forgo letting any personalities take charge and entice a bashing committee into doing something that suddenly becomes another group policy. I have seen a sick group of people come up with some pretty sick solutions that didn't reflect our code of Love, Tolerance and Patience.
I tend to agree that the first step of action to put on the floor is that 3 of the groups elders, get with the offender (together, not separately) and in very clear, firm words inform them that their behavior is not acceptable and should it be continued it will be taken to the next level of group involvement so that everyone becomes aware of their perditory conduct.
Lastly, the big book states that "We are not the arbitors of anyones sex conduct. We all have sex problems. We'd hardly be human if we didn't."
But it also says more will be revealed. Keep in mind that if you saw the woman in AA when the Big Book was written in 1939, they didn't have to worry themselves with arbitrating sex conduct too much... LMAO most were homeless bag ladies who had more years drinking under their belt than many of our members have sucking air on earth today. Our membership and society has changed a great amount since those early days. It was written before the sexual revolution of the 1960's, and sex outside of wedlock, and especially sex with someone still married was condoned so harsely that to even bring it to light at all, could have resulted in many people dying from utter embarassment, and humiliation that resulted in that first drink being taken. Today, we have a new playing field, a much younger, more sexually vibrant population and we have over 75 years of collective experience and wisdom to pull from. The unwritten suggestion of no sex for the first year of sobriety comes from that experience and wisdom, it cannot be found to be elluded to prior to 1971, why? Because at that time we realized were literally screwing each other to death! :)
And to this day...when someone tells me they relapsed in their first year I ask.."what was his/her name?" And the majority can give me a name....
John
Pythonpappy said
Nov 25, 2011
John, ...
How in the h*ll can you possibly know all this stuff? ... ok, ok .... I know ... You've been living the program for a fair period of time ... But still ... it's like your an encyclopedia or sumthin' ...
I'm old enough not to be amazed at many things anymore, but man ... you just keep blowing me away ... and on top of that, it make good sense what you share ... love it still!
God Bless, Pappy
Halfwolf said
Nov 25, 2011
Just pull him aside and tell him to knock it off or you will ask the group to kick him out. I wouldnt want to embarass him in a group setting.
Stepchild said
Nov 25, 2011
Romance and Finance......knocks more alkies back out. The AA Trifecta The Girl/Guy...The job...and the apartment/car I learned this early in my short term of sobriety....And I have seen the results of it....none of them good.
RealismAddict said
9 days ago
As a new GSR, I completely understand the weight of handling this situation. It's never easy to facilitate a group conscience on such a sensitive topic, but maintaining a safe environment is essential for our recovery. In my experience, relying heavily on the "Service Manual" and the "AA Guidelines on Shared Experience and Methods to Help Prevent Violence in Meetings" is the best way to keep the discussion focused on our traditions rather than personalities.
When we had a similar issue, we focused on the idea that our common welfare should come first, and that individual behavior shouldn't threaten the safety of the group as a whole. To help you prepare, you might want to Learn more online about how other groups have successfully implemented safety protocols and boundaries while still keeping the doors open to those who truly want help. It's all about finding that balance between compassion and firm boundaries.
-- Edited by RealismAddict on Saturday 31st of January 2026 04:58:33 PM
Having a group conscience after our regular meeting on Saturday about inappropriate sexual behavior of one of our members. As the new GSR would love to have any online resources you've used on how to conduct the meeting and any experience, strength and hope you have to share. Thank you, Kamazon
This is an old problem that seems to manifest in different ways. We have at times had problems with predatory behavior by both sexes and our practice has been for one or two older members of the same sex to take the offending member to one side and impress upon them that their behavior is unacceptable. Sometimes quite forcefully. The other issue that seems to crop up is where a member has a history of offending of a sexual nature and discusses this in a mixed sex meeting in an almost boastful way, which can be extremely upsetting especially for victims of such offending. The chair ought to stop this type of sharing immediately but all too often are not experienced enough to do this. Again it is appropriate to remind offenders that our stories disclose in a general way......
Unfortunately, we have a strong element in the fellowship these days who feel anything goes, there are no rules etc, and they are willing to tolerate the intolerable, unless of course something offends their sensibilities in which case their intolerance knows no bounds. It's hard to say if a group conscience is the best way to deal with this, or a more discreet direct approach. Mob justice is something to be avoided if possible, and it is often quite difficult to have an informed group conscience.
The applicable traditions are tradiition 1 - Our common welfare must come first, personal recovery depends upon AA unity. A destructive element/individual in a group, that is to say one that causes direct harm to individual members, will destroy the confidence of the individual members and bring conflict and fear. Under such circumstances the welfare of all is threatened, which harms all members. There are grounds for taking action to correct the behaviour of the offender because the welfare of the group is paramount.
Tradition 5 Each group has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. This implies an obligation that the still suffering alcoholic will be kept safe in the group. In the same way we would not allow say insurance salesmen access to the group for business purposes, we also ought not allow people with problems/issues other than alcohol to find new victims among our members. How would we react to drug pushing or blatant evangalism?
Be wary of mob justice. Remember the offender is a sick person and it is their behaviour that is intolerable, but if they suffer from alcoholism they are entitled to membership in AA. A group conscience with the offender present could go off the rails with serious consequences for the group and offender. My preference would be to either deal with the matter informally with the help of one or two older members or alternatively, through the group conscience, appoint a committee of members knowledgeable in the traditions, to meet with the offender and try to resolve the matter in a firm but loving way.
God bless,
Mike H
There is a story on this board about a woman who in 1941, before our traditions were in place, was kicked out of AA. And was informed of it on the same day that Japan flew over and bombed Pearl Harbor. Her name was Irma Livoni.
http://aa.activeboard.com/t44123765/irma-livoni-the-woman-who-was-kicked-out-of-aa-tradition-thr/
The Akron Intergroup archieves have correspondence between Bill W and the group of men who were promoting her "termination" from AA, and in it, it suggest rather clearly she was very promiscuous and hooking up with some of the married men in the group, destroying families and jeapardizing the continued sobriety of those men.
The situation created a good bit of division in the group, and this is what caught Bill's attention. Also he states that this person is spiritually ill, and needs to be treated with an agape love that the the group could use collectively to bring her to a better place of self respect. But that instead of looking so closely at her actions, they might want to also look at the men's actions, as they too were showing signs of not being spiritually fit and destroying their own families and jeapardizing their own recovery by engaging in such behavior.
In the end the letter from Bill to the group states the group needs to protect itself from this sort of distraction at all cost because while they are focused on who is doing what regarding this issue, someone is likely sitting in the background dying of alcoholism that is not even getting noticed.
It is said by a variety of elders in the program at that time that this situation gave birth to the traditions... Tradition 1, Tradition 2, Tradition 3, Tradition 4... and who knows what others...
************
Now, utilizing the Traditions long form, which can be read at http://www.prismnet.com/aamen/trad.html I would believe we can't kick someone out of AA, as stated in Tradition 3 if they have a desire to stop drinking, they do not have to conform to a bunch of rules and regulations, to be a member of this fellowship.
And some will lean on Tradition 4, "Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole." "Well, we arn't kicking them out of AA, but out of our group because... (but arn't we then setting up another group in the area to be the receptor of that preditory behavior?)
I think Tradition 1 and 2 stands out very clearly on this... that the common good of the whole of comes before the good of the individual, and that the group must seek its ultimate authority through a "loving" God as expressed collectively by the group, so unity is heard in its determination of action.
Our group has had to put a member in what I like to refer to as the group "hot seat" at times. What we have found is that the behavior is changed, amends are made and everyone gets back to the primary purpose, or the individual leaves on their own accord, never to be seen again, or at least until the pain of alcoholism propels them back into the rooms with enough force that they final "stick" to the program and not try to "stick" its members. :)
Each group needs to find that spiritual solution which allows us to practice the principles of this program and forgo letting any personalities take charge and entice a bashing committee into doing something that suddenly becomes another group policy. I have seen a sick group of people come up with some pretty sick solutions that didn't reflect our code of Love, Tolerance and Patience.
I tend to agree that the first step of action to put on the floor is that 3 of the groups elders, get with the offender (together, not separately) and in very clear, firm words inform them that their behavior is not acceptable and should it be continued it will be taken to the next level of group involvement so that everyone becomes aware of their perditory conduct.
Lastly, the big book states that "We are not the arbitors of anyones sex conduct. We all have sex problems. We'd hardly be human if we didn't."
But it also says more will be revealed. Keep in mind that if you saw the woman in AA when the Big Book was written in 1939, they didn't have to worry themselves with arbitrating sex conduct too much... LMAO most were homeless bag ladies who had more years drinking under their belt than many of our members have sucking air on earth today. Our membership and society has changed a great amount since those early days. It was written before the sexual revolution of the 1960's, and sex outside of wedlock, and especially sex with someone still married was condoned so harsely that to even bring it to light at all, could have resulted in many people dying from utter embarassment, and humiliation that resulted in that first drink being taken. Today, we have a new playing field, a much younger, more sexually vibrant population and we have over 75 years of collective experience and wisdom to pull from. The unwritten suggestion of no sex for the first year of sobriety comes from that experience and wisdom, it cannot be found to be elluded to prior to 1971, why? Because at that time we realized were literally screwing each other to death! :)
And to this day...when someone tells me they relapsed in their first year I ask.."what was his/her name?" And the majority can give me a name....
John
John, ...
How in the h*ll can you possibly know all this stuff? ... ok, ok .... I know ... You've been living the program for a fair period of time ... But still ... it's like your an encyclopedia or sumthin' ...
I'm old enough not to be amazed at many things anymore, but man ... you just keep blowing me away ... and on top of that, it make good sense what you share ... love it still!
God Bless,
Pappy
The AA Trifecta
The Girl/Guy...The job...and the apartment/car
I learned this early in my short term of sobriety....And I have seen the results of it....none of them good.
As a new GSR, I completely understand the weight of handling this situation. It's never easy to facilitate a group conscience on such a sensitive topic, but maintaining a safe environment is essential for our recovery. In my experience, relying heavily on the "Service Manual" and the "AA Guidelines on Shared Experience and Methods to Help Prevent Violence in Meetings" is the best way to keep the discussion focused on our traditions rather than personalities.
When we had a similar issue, we focused on the idea that our common welfare should come first, and that individual behavior shouldn't threaten the safety of the group as a whole. To help you prepare, you might want to Learn more online about how other groups have successfully implemented safety protocols and boundaries while still keeping the doors open to those who truly want help. It's all about finding that balance between compassion and firm boundaries.
-- Edited by RealismAddict on Saturday 31st of January 2026 04:58:33 PM