Does a group need a written copy of the group by-laws? My group has some rules and regulations that I would like to see in writing but to no avail. I was wondering about other groups. I know about the Intergroup by-laws, but they are so very generic.
soberbytheGOG said
Jun 15, 2011
Each group is autonomous, except when it affects AA, as a whole. Most groups 'try' to adhere to the 12 Traditions (these are not necessarily "rules and regulations" but suggestions on how each AA group should try to adhere to a set of guidelines so that AA's singleness of purpose is being met.) I'm not real clear on exactly what you are asking, so maybe someone else can offer you some feedback.
Mr_David said
Jun 16, 2011
Thanks alkyone for the topic...
My home group doesn't have a set of "bylaws" in writing. They do have a group conscience which other people should adhere too. There is only one "singleness of purpose" that I know of and it is "to carry the message of AA to the still suffering alcoholic and to practice the principles in all its affairs". Anything else would up to the group's discretion and not necessarily AA as a whole. If you don't agree with what is said in one particular group then you can search for another home group instead.
-- Edited by Mr_David on Thursday 16th of June 2011 12:32:51 AM
Rainspa said
Jun 16, 2011
In a lot of US cities, Intergroups might have bylaws because they are not-for-profit corporations, not AA meetings. They handle the phones, websites, publish meeting schedules and local newsletters, etc. Donations from the groups and/or fundraisers pay for those services. Because they are doing the services for AA, they may have representatives from the groups they serve.
Usually the bylaws have to do with how the rent is paid, who signs the checks, how long people are on the board, how intergroup is run, etc.
AA on the other hand, is meetings, General Service Representatives meeting at the district, regional and area levels. At the top of that is the General Service Organization (now known as AA World Services) AA as a whole, Publishing, the Grapevine are at this level.
Each group is atonomous unless it effects AA as a whole. In other words, if it doesn't effect the rest of AA, a group can do whatever it darn well pleases. Big Book? OK. Other lit? OK. Clown costumes every other Thursday, just cause you all want to? No problem. Stupid rules because I am petty and want to annoy you?
Yup.
Its not usually the sign of a really heathy group, but you get the idea.
There is an old joke in AA about a group that made some rules. They liked their rules, so they made some more. Some people weren't quite as "sober" as others, and didn't dress as well, or get jobs, so they made rules about that. When they went to publish their rules they took them in, and instead of the sixty-one fine rules that they had made up the list now had another:
62. Don't take yourself so seriously
The traditional AA response to annoyance and/or resentment of a group is to find one other person to agree with you, a coffee pot, and a new location. An thus does AA spread. Remeber to register with intergroup so they can list you in the directory
-- Edited by Rainspa on Thursday 16th of June 2011 06:36:02 PM
kld47 said
Jun 16, 2011
Hi
For some groups it would depend on the location.
Like a Church--No Smoking on the Grounds Period.
Someone's own home as in Traveling/Roaming Groups.
Schools, Main Clubhouses, Beaches.
Each has their own set of Certain Rules that must be Kept at all times no matter what the Group wants to do--Parking, Clean-up, Hours of Operation, Temperture Settings.
It really makes a difference.
leeu said
Jun 19, 2011
My small home group had no written guides for anything, so many practices---some kinda contrary to our wonderfully simple AA suggestions---were of the "that's the way so & so (who is long gone, of course) said we had to do it. " variety. Now we keep notes of any group decisions made-and voted on-at the business meetings, so there is at least a written guide to go by, until the group elects to change it. It is making a difference of the "quality improvement" kind, and attendance at the meeting, which had been floundering, is now increasing. I think the consistency, and the fact that there is a demonstrated group conscience in action, is an attraction.
chponeill said
Sep 28, 2016
I have a question: I have a service and therapy dog: golden retriever/calm/obedient/friendly/doesn't bark. Most of the folks in my home group know him and love him. There are two people who feel that they are in charge,and they decided he was not allowed in that meeting because he was a distraction. His service training is in alrting me to seizure/stroke as I am highly prone to each. They saidf that I didn't have a physical disability so he wasn't allowed in. At other meetings where he is allowed, his therapy training enables him to find people who are in stress. he has been known to go across a room to a person who is crying, and lay his head on their lap. This is very comfortable for them and I have only received positive and thankful comments about his behavior.
What do I do about my homegroup? I want to go to thismeeting, but this couple seems to feel they rule the roost. I chair one of te meetings and would especially like him with me. He helps my sobriety and does so for others. Ther4e is one woman who is allergic but has said that she doesn't mind sitting further away from him.
Thoughts?
Pythonpappy said
Sep 28, 2016
Welcome to MIP Christin, ...
Where I'm from, it was customary for our home group to have monthly 'Group Conscience Meetings' to discuss various issues and to review the group's financial status, etc ... As a member of this 'home group' you're referring to, I might suggest go'n to the next "Group" meeting(usually held after one of the regular meet'ns), to put the issue before the group ... maybe even make a 'motion' whether as to allow your dog to attend meetings, for the purposes you described, and get the members to vote on it ... one or two guys should not be allowed to 'rule the roost', as it were ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
Fyne Spirit said
Sep 29, 2016
A functioning group will have business or conscience meetings and should keep a minute book as a record of the meetings. Things like format, open/closed, rotation of officers, appointment of officers, participation in wider AA, finances etc. But IMHE most don't mainly because they are meetings masquarading as groups.
There is a very useful pamphlet called "The AA Group" . It contains excellent suggestions.
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Thursday 29th of September 2016 09:48:10 AM
Reghawk said
Aug 18, 2017
There is a legal ramification involved in this. First of all if you meet in a church you need to first check with them. If they have a no dogs policy, that's the end of the conversation. A Religous Institution does not have to abide by the Americans with Disabilities act.
Next is it an open or closed meeting? If it is an open meeting, than by law, Service dogs must be allowed. Period, even if it is a private dwelling, an open meeting means the public has access.
The reason I speak with confidence on this topic is because three years ago, the club that I was on the board of directors of faced this very dilemma. We spoke with an attorney who specializes in ADA Law and the above information came from him.
Autonomous or not, an AA Group cannot violate the law because it affects AA as a whole.
Tanin said
Aug 20, 2017
An AA group is a spiritual entity, not a legal entity. What's illegal for a club (a corporation, a legal entity) is not necessarily illegal for a group of individuals who gather together informally as a self-help collective.
Reghawk said
Aug 20, 2017
If you're referring to the service dog issue, NO! The law is very specific. If the meeting is open to the public, not to members only, and if it is not held in a church to which the ADA laws do not apply then the dog must be allowed. The opinion I have just expressed comes from a lawyer whom was retained and who specializes in the American with Disabilities act. You are also mistaken in your opinion about the private club. Under the ADA, the Club did not have to allopw the service dogs in a closed meeting, but did in an open meeting.
As far as AA goes, the difference between an open and closed meeting is clearly defined. An open meeting is open to anyone, including observers, but a closed meeting is open only to people who have a desire to stop drinking, which is the Only requirement for membership. Therefore a closed meeting is for Members only and not open to the public.
And as a further bit of information. Although AA Groups are autonomous, they cannot violate local, state or federal law. Doing so would violate the "except when it affects other groups or AA as a whole" part of the forth tradition. AA does not enjoy any legal protections.
peterjohnson said
Mar 15, 2024
Yes, having a written copy of group by-laws is essential for clarity, consistency, and accountability within any organization. While some groups may operate effectively without formal documentation, having rules and regulations in writing can prevent misunderstandings and disputes. It provides a reference point for all members to understand their rights and responsibilities. The generic nature of Intergroup by-laws may not fully address the specific needs and dynamics of individual groups, highlighting the importance of crafting tailored by-laws. If your group lacks written by-laws, it might be beneficial to initiate a discussion about formalizing them to enhance transparency and cohesion. You can explore resources like the foundational course offered at https://www.jyotijudiciaryclat.com/two-year-foundational-course/ to gain insights into structuring and implementing effective by-laws for your group's unique requirements.
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Does a group need a written copy of the group by-laws? My group has some rules and regulations that I would like to see in writing but to no avail. I was wondering about other groups. I know about the Intergroup by-laws, but they are so very generic.
Thanks alkyone for the topic...
My home group doesn't have a set of "bylaws" in writing. They do have a group conscience which other people should adhere too. There is only one "singleness of purpose" that I know of and it is "to carry the message of AA to the still suffering alcoholic and to practice the principles in all its affairs". Anything else would up to the group's discretion and not necessarily AA as a whole. If you don't agree with what is said in one particular group then you can search for another home group instead.
-- Edited by Mr_David on Thursday 16th of June 2011 12:32:51 AM
In a lot of US cities, Intergroups might have bylaws because they are not-for-profit corporations, not AA meetings. They handle the phones, websites, publish meeting schedules and local newsletters, etc. Donations from the groups and/or fundraisers pay for those services. Because they are doing the services for AA, they may have representatives from the groups they serve.
Usually the bylaws have to do with how the rent is paid, who signs the checks, how long people are on the board, how intergroup is run, etc.
AA on the other hand, is meetings, General Service Representatives meeting at the district, regional and area levels. At the top of that is the General Service Organization (now known as AA World Services) AA as a whole, Publishing, the Grapevine are at this level.
Each group is atonomous unless it effects AA as a whole. In other words, if it doesn't effect the rest of AA, a group can do whatever it darn well pleases. Big Book? OK. Other lit? OK. Clown costumes every other Thursday, just cause you all want to? No problem. Stupid rules because I am petty and want to annoy you?
Yup.
Its not usually the sign of a really heathy group, but you get the idea.
There is an old joke in AA about a group that made some rules. They liked their rules, so they made some more. Some people weren't quite as "sober" as others, and didn't dress as well, or get jobs, so they made rules about that. When they went to publish their rules they took them in, and instead of the sixty-one fine rules that they had made up the list now had another:
62. Don't take yourself so seriously
The traditional AA response to annoyance and/or resentment of a group is to find one other person to agree with you, a coffee pot, and a new location. An thus does AA spread. Remeber to register with intergroup so they can list you in the directory
-- Edited by Rainspa on Thursday 16th of June 2011 06:36:02 PM
Hi
For some groups it would depend on the location.
Like a Church--No Smoking on the Grounds Period.
Someone's own home as in Traveling/Roaming Groups.
Schools, Main Clubhouses, Beaches.
Each has their own set of Certain Rules that must be Kept at all times no matter what the Group wants to do--Parking, Clean-up, Hours of Operation, Temperture Settings.
It really makes a difference.
What do I do about my homegroup? I want to go to thismeeting, but this couple seems to feel they rule the roost. I chair one of te meetings and would especially like him with me. He helps my sobriety and does so for others. Ther4e is one woman who is allergic but has said that she doesn't mind sitting further away from him.
Thoughts?
Welcome to MIP Christin, ...
Where I'm from, it was customary for our home group to have monthly 'Group Conscience Meetings' to discuss various issues and to review the group's financial status, etc ... As a member of this 'home group' you're referring to, I might suggest go'n to the next "Group" meeting(usually held after one of the regular meet'ns), to put the issue before the group ... maybe even make a 'motion' whether as to allow your dog to attend meetings, for the purposes you described, and get the members to vote on it ... one or two guys should not be allowed to 'rule the roost', as it were ...
Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy
A functioning group will have business or conscience meetings and should keep a minute book as a record of the meetings. Things like format, open/closed, rotation of officers, appointment of officers, participation in wider AA, finances etc. But IMHE most don't mainly because they are meetings masquarading as groups.
There is a very useful pamphlet called "The AA Group" . It contains excellent suggestions.
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Thursday 29th of September 2016 09:48:10 AM
There is a legal ramification involved in this. First of all if you meet in a church you need to first check with them. If they have a no dogs policy, that's the end of the conversation. A Religous Institution does not have to abide by the Americans with Disabilities act.
Next is it an open or closed meeting? If it is an open meeting, than by law, Service dogs must be allowed. Period, even if it is a private dwelling, an open meeting means the public has access.
The reason I speak with confidence on this topic is because three years ago, the club that I was on the board of directors of faced this very dilemma. We spoke with an attorney who specializes in ADA Law and the above information came from him.
Autonomous or not, an AA Group cannot violate the law because it affects AA as a whole.
If you're referring to the service dog issue, NO! The law is very specific. If the meeting is open to the public, not to members only, and if it is not held in a church to which the ADA laws do not apply then the dog must be allowed. The opinion I have just expressed comes from a lawyer whom was retained and who specializes in the American with Disabilities act. You are also mistaken in your opinion about the private club. Under the ADA, the Club did not have to allopw the service dogs in a closed meeting, but did in an open meeting.
As far as AA goes, the difference between an open and closed meeting is clearly defined. An open meeting is open to anyone, including observers, but a closed meeting is open only to people who have a desire to stop drinking, which is the Only requirement for membership. Therefore a closed meeting is for Members only and not open to the public.
And as a further bit of information. Although AA Groups are autonomous, they cannot violate local, state or federal law. Doing so would violate the "except when it affects other groups or AA as a whole" part of the forth tradition. AA does not enjoy any legal protections.
Yes, having a written copy of group by-laws is essential for clarity, consistency, and accountability within any organization. While some groups may operate effectively without formal documentation, having rules and regulations in writing can prevent misunderstandings and disputes. It provides a reference point for all members to understand their rights and responsibilities. The generic nature of Intergroup by-laws may not fully address the specific needs and dynamics of individual groups, highlighting the importance of crafting tailored by-laws. If your group lacks written by-laws, it might be beneficial to initiate a discussion about formalizing them to enhance transparency and cohesion. You can explore resources like the foundational course offered at https://www.jyotijudiciaryclat.com/two-year-foundational-course/ to gain insights into structuring and implementing effective by-laws for your group's unique requirements.