John: I would like to respond to your post on religious beliefs......... And then will LEAVE your board permantely, as for you to prohibit ANYONE from choosing to talk about what it is they feel in their HEART is important to them for their recovery-- Alcoholic or NOT is pretty contradicting of what AA is supposed to do for people. Help with their recovery. I may not be an Alcoholic, but I am an addict to many things and in turn, my past emotional addictions could have killed me as Alcohol could kill an alcoholic. That being the case, Alcoholic or not-- I've experienced the same pain and turmoil inside of me that most Alcoholics have and for someone to say differently is NO RIGHT of theirs. Perhaps, they did not watch their 5 nieces and nephews die in a fire due to a drug and alcohol life they were subject too, they did not have their daughter get medically ill, they did not experience sexual, emotional and psychological abuse and more importantly and obviously, they have not learned what God is truly about. I've come through my recovery and plan on writing an autobiography. Finishing up my Technical Management degree and will follow in studying Theology and Philosophy-- Why? So that I can give my life to help others who have lost hope because I know the pain that comes with that and I also know the reward of working hard to face your emotions. To say that I am not even an alcoholic is not fair because I experience the SAME EXACT emotions as everyone else, I just choose to not turn to alcohol. But there was a point, I chose other things. For you to limit what someone NEEDS to talk about AND it is NOT about promoting any religion, as it is about what SAVED MY LIFE. I share that in an attempt to possible help someone else, just as others share their stories of recovery here. May God Bless you and others as you continue to NOT truly acknowledge Him OR believe that someone just talking about their belief (that is in their heart) is something that is contradictory to recovery. It's a shame and perhaps why we have so many support groups-- because people choose to put their hope and recovery into another person and the world, rather than God. Sure you say that your HP is ultimately what is saving you, but if that is the TRUTH, then why so much controversy about what another member shares? If God (your HP) is TRULY the answer that has carried you through your trials and tribulations, then you would ACCEPT ANYONE for who they are and not try to shun them. I wouldn't be surprised that upon my rebuke you delete this post and that is fine with me. To not allow others to share what they NEED to share is selfish and controlling--- EXACTLY the opposite of what ANY SUPPORT group should be. For all of you in recovery--- Don't EVER let ANYONE tell you that there is ONLY ONE WAY in recovery, as what might help one, may not help another and vice versa. Just listen to your heart, know that God loves you when you feel your worst and each day is the first day of the rest of your life-- a day to start over, let go of past mistakes and guilt because what you did yesterday is GONE, OVER. You all that are fighting to recover from alcoholism are incredible and I give you so much credit. This world is a difficult place to live and God knows how much pain you all experience. Let HIM be the answer and He will ALWAYS provide people who love you unconditionally with since compassion under any circumstances or belief that you might want to share. Take Care and May God continue to bless all of you in recovery. :)

-- Edited by sanddie at 21:35, 2005-09-25

walk in peace!!!!!!   god bless u wagon

Sanddie,

I am glad that you have found the "God of your understanding".  I am  particularly glad that you have been able to overcome the "demons" which were ruling your life through that awakening.

As an alcoholic, who was looking for "peace" in a bottle, I had a particulary hard time, as I could not accept the  "Christian God" my father so completely accepted as a minister.  I waffled between complete atheism and agnosticism.  I have come to accept a concept of "God" that might not be accepable to anyone other than myself.  I would probably not have been scared off AA by encountering a "strongly Christian" member, due to my upbringing.  On the other hand, John's concern is for those newbies who might not give the program a chance because they think it is a "hook" to a "cult".  (Would you be offended if I told you that the only way to peace and serenity was through the total adherance to Zen Buddhism?)  

Never surrender your personal relationship with God.  Just realize that our collective best chance of survival is tolerance, tolerance, tolerance. 

 

 

I agree about the AA program allowing people to find the God of their understanding in their own time and way. I have said so before, regarding the use of the Christian "Our Father"  being required as the closing prayer. I do think that there is a Higher Power, which is God,,  but we all understand God differently,, even those who are in the same religious group, and I know I understand God differently as time goes by.

It looks to me like maybe you are not alcoholic yourself, but from what you say there are alcoholics in your family, and so you qualify for alanon,,  and for the abuse as a child also Adult Children of Alcoholics. Have you looked into the alanon program in your area? You may find that much more helpful all around than this particular forum.

I hope you find a group that is right for you,

love in recovey,

amanda

I would NEVER be offended of what your belief is or what it is that makes you stay strong enough to live a peaceful and stable life, as what works for you is what you NEED to survive. MY GOD, asks in Romans 14 1-12, Who am I to judge? I simple share my story of recovery and accept others..... My posts aren't to attack others, but to share my story-- Why? Because I owe it to God for saving my life back in 1996 during my spiritual awakening. I'll close in saying this.... It doesn't matter who believes in WHAT God because ALL religions and all beliefs come back to ONE THING-- To love eachother with compassion and care as I am aware my God indicates. To debate and argue about what another shares in their belief contradicts the very essense of ANY God if you ask me. I'm here to share, not to argue or defend my story that saved my life, as I do not need to justify that to anyone, as you do not need to justify what helps you in your recovery right? Take Care.. Many prayers are with all of you.

Dear Sandy,

The decision to go or stay is completely yours.  The group has voted on the issue that was brought to my attention and voted in favor of not deleting any religiously based post, by a non alcoholic.

I respect their decision in such matters and thats why I sought it from the group.  I am a AA member with almost 16 years of continuous sobriety.  I am also a God loving, Church going Christian.  When such a issue is brought to my attention by one person I may not give it any true concern, but when 2 or more bring something to my attention, I pay attention.  In an AA environment I need to keep my focus on the Traditions, and not attempt to undermine them with my religious values, beliefs or ideas.  Note that during the voting process, I did not vote at all.  I simply brought the concern of others to the group, utilized the group conscience and it turned out well for all, including you.  As Tradition Two states:

"For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority — a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern."

Now, on a personal note; I utilize both, AA and my reglious faith to recover and stay God centered, or as we say in AA, Spiritually Fit.  However, some are not at that point, some never get to that point.  I know many who got and remained sober as a result of religious endeavors, who have never been to one AA meeting.  I also know many that got and remained sober as a result of their participation in AA, who have never been to one church service.  Both methods work well, and together they are absolutely awesome tools.  However, a separation needs to exist between them for me, because I don't go to church to listen to my Pastor read the AA Big Book to the congregation, and I don't go to AA meetings to hear the Bible read to alcoholics.  There is a time and place for all things.  It appears that we are blessed here on this message board and are willing to welcome both.

May God be with you and those you love,

In the Spirit of Recovery,

John F.