Help with a crush...what is the correct AA thing to do?
dagenham said
Oct 26, 2010
I wonder if you guys can help me with a worry I have. A few weeks ago my closest friend in recovery told me that he had feelings for me. I am a gay man and so is he. I had heard that this could be dangerous to his recovery, so I told him that I like him but I do not feel the same way and that our friendship would have to change as a result of his feelings (he is only a year sober).
My sponsor told me that relationships between 2 alcoholics, in or out of recovery, are a recipe for disaster - and I tend to think he may be right.
I spoke to my sponsor and he suggested I distance myself from this guy. So I haven't been in touch. He called a couple of times but I spoke noncommittally to him until he hung up after five minutes and then the second time the phone cut out and I didn't ring back. He tries to engage me in conversation but I make do with giving vague answers, not telling him anything about my life and not encouraging his friendship in any way. I have been told this is the best approach to avoid him getting the wrong idea and I have to face the fact that we cannot be friends any more. I avoid being left alone with him after meetings, and if I am in a group situation I try to keep my distance from him physically and conversationally, where possible. Although we can't be friends, I am always friendly and polite towards hm.
I feel sad about this. I would like your help in two ways - could you please tell me
a) Is this the correct way for me to deal with a situation like this according to AA rules? Is my sponsor correct? and
b) How do you feel I should be dealing with it? Any tips...
Two more things to add which might help, I am just under two years sober myself, The guy in question has not attempted to suggest we have a relationship since we had that first awkward conversation. In fact, even then, he only said he had feelings for me and how sorry he was - not that he wanted to be my boyfriend. Since I distanced myself from him he has remained very friendly and he does seem to want me to still be his friend, always asking how I am and making jokes etc.
It would lift a great weight from my shoulders if you could tell me the correct way to proceed because I am feeling guilty and sad. Thanks. John.
SUSIE said
Oct 26, 2010
Im not saying I know the answer by any means. Do you have feelings for him? Who is to say. I know in the begging of recovery, getting into a relationship can be hard if not all out bad. We need to find ourselfs and be selfish in the program. BE HONEST with yourself. Think, think, think, then react. Like i said its only my opinion. The harm comes i think when you get into a relationship you tend to put the other person first. While in recovery YOU need to be the FIRST person on your list. Why not remain friends??? As long as your honest about your feelins with him. Good Luck :)
leeu said
Oct 26, 2010
Somewhere in an older AA writing it suggests that we do not avoid relationships in early sobriety...but more current thinking, based on more current knowledge about the dynamics of recovery & relapse prevention suggest "major changes" including "relationships" (usually defined to mean including sex, dependencies, old behaviors) are best avoided during the first year. That pretty much originated out of the professional treatment community (then moving into AA culture). It has certainly proven for many to be a sound perspective. If being friends doesn't feel in my gut (as guided through the 11th step) to be laced with danger-danger, I take the risk of being friends. I also pray for the discernment to know when to pull back if necessary. My sobriety comes first.
Jorvick said
Oct 26, 2010
You did say he was your closest friend.
I've had a close friend for a while, I was rather surprised when certain emotions started reactivating like jealousy, missing them..... The weird thing for me is I was honestly not after a girlfriend (well not consciously anyway).
I can see why people suggest no relationships, my head has stopped thinking about AA first thing in the morning (and it isn't full of her). My meeting attendance has dropped .... but towards normal levels, i.e. less than once a day.
I've noticed I've been a lot more open since we started seeing each other, me and her have always been open as we are very similar but this has carried into meetings..... I don't see a problem.
LinBaba said
Oct 26, 2010
"To Thine own self be true"
Do you want a relationship with this man? it doesn't appear so or you'd be in one with him
I have found sometimes taking distance is the best thing to do, what are those song lyrics, "You have to be cruel to be kind"
You are both over 18, you both have over a year, you are a consenting adult, as is he, are you making your decision based on fear? on being true to yourself? On what your sponsor tells you or hearsay you have heard in meetings about relationships?
I tend to choose sponsors any more who give me the same respect and consideration my God does, ie; give me the information and then allow me to make my own mistakes
I'm not very big on sponsors who tell their sponcees what relationships they can and can't have, ESPECIALLY after a year of sobriety, this is an understatement, I would make this person show me exactly where in ANY piece of AA literature it tells him he can tell me who or what or when I am allowed to have a relationship
The first year of being alone is good solid sound experience within AA as a whole, but hell even parents can only raise their children and hope they instill good values before they let their children go live their own lives, after that it's just controlling, manipulative, and codependent behavior, and unhealthy for all concerned
My experience is dating anyone with less then about 10 years is complete and utter lunacy, but that is MY experience and I researched that well and often before I came to that conclusion, I will NEVER say "do as I say not as I do" to a sponsee, the flip side is I have found dating the "unevolved" just as stupid, in or out of the rooms seems to make no difference (truthfully with the caveat that they do have at least 3 years of sobriety, I include me in that statement, I was a train wreck my first few years, and I have had more then one "first few years"
The thing is I learned this by experiencing it for myself, I had the highest highs, and the lowest lows, and if I paid attention my character defects were revealed to allow me to work on them, and truthfully it was part of my growth process, no pun intended
I like what the BB says, which summed up basically says, sex is good, follow your heart, and don't harm others or yourself
Good sound advice
As far what is the "correct" AA thing to do:
Now about sex. Many of needed an overhauling there. But above all, we tried to be sensible on this question. It's so easy to get way off the track. Here we find human opinions running to extremes absurd extremes, perhaps. One set of voices cry th at sex is a lust of our lower nature, a base necessity of procreation.
Then we have the voices who cry for sex and more sex; who bewail the institution of marriage; who think that most of the troubles of the race are traceable to sex causes. They think we do not have enough of it, or that it isn't the right kind. They s ee its significance everywhere. One school would allow man no flavor for his fare and the other would have us all on a straight pepper diet. We want to stay out of this controversy. We do not want to be the arbiter of anyone's sex conduct. We all have sex problems. We'd hardly be human if we didn't. What can we do about them?
We reviewed our own conduct over the years past. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, or inconsiderate? Whom had we hurt? Did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy, suspicion or bitterness? Where were we at fault, what should we have done instead? We got this all down on paper and looked at it.
In this way we tried to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future sex life. We subjected each relation to this test -was it selfish or not? We asked God to mold our ideals and help us to live up to them. We remembered always that our sex powers we re God-given and therefore good, neither to be used lightly or selfishly nor to be despised and loathed.
Whatever our ideal turns out to be, we must be willing to grow toward it. We must be willing to make amends where we have done harm, provided that we do not bring about still more harm in so doing. In other words, we treat sex as we would any other p roblem. In meditation, we ask God what we should do about each specific matter. The right answer will come, if we want it.
God alone can judge our sex situation. Counsel with persons is often desirable, but we let God be the final judge. We realize that some people are as fanatical about sex as others are loose. We avoid hysterical thinking or advice.
Suppose we fall short of the chosen ideal and stumble? Does this mean we are going to get drunk. Some people tell us so. But this is only a half-truth. It depends on us and on our motives. If we are sorry for what we have done, and have the honest desire to let God take us to better things, we believe we will be forgiven and will have learned our lesson. If we are not sorry, and our conduct continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing. These are facts out of our ex perience.
To sum up about sex: We earnestly pray for the right ideal, for guidance in each questionable situation, for sanity, and for the strength to do the right thing. If sex is very troublesome, we throw ourselves the harder into helping others. We think o f their needs and work for them. This takes us out of ourselves. It quiets the imperious urge, when to yield would mean heartache.
-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 26th of October 2010 06:58:07 PM
dagenham said
Oct 26, 2010
Thank you so much for all your thoughtful replies. I will re-read them tomorrow and post back to you when I have had longer to think...to be honest, I didn't even think abouit listening to my heart - because the issue of 'in AA' relations seemed to be a non starter - so there seemed no point in going down that path.
The hardest part is just keeping him at arms length. He is a lovely guy. I understand cruel to be kind. Part of me feels like this should all be WAY simpler than it has become or than it feels right now. I do miss his friendship.
happycamper said
Oct 26, 2010
He is your closest friend in recovery and you were unaware that he was developing 'more than just friendship' feelings for you?
I dont understand what the problem is. You both are sober for over a year. You both are adults.
Now, are the both of you working the program of Alcoholics Anonymous the way it is outlined and are both of you happy, responsible and working with others , working the steps?
There are no rules in AA, just suggestions.
Have you prayed about this, and continued to pray and wait for an answer?
You might also get an answer as to why you are now feeling guilty and sad.
SUSIE said
Oct 26, 2010
Its never as hard as it seems.
dagenham said
Oct 26, 2010
I am working the steps, happy camper. He isn't at the moment, which concerns me...But he does attend plenty of meetings, shares clearly and honestly, follows a spiritual path, has made amends and helps newcomers. To be honest, he often seems more serene and gentle than people with many years sobriety. But that does concern me - that he is not actively doing the Steps.
pinkchip said
Oct 26, 2010
You can't help how someone feels about you. Just consider it a compliment and carry on as usual. Don't get all weirded out every time someone has a crush on you....Also, I think it's wrong to punish a person for being honest with you. He is the one who should be deciding if he can be friends with you now since it sounds like he's the one with the unfulfilled crush. I don't see how you are affected much at all since you don't seem to share the feelings. It's not like you found an alter of you in his closet that he worships all the time. I would only end the friendship if he is all psychostalker....beyond that, you are overreacting. I know a ton of gay men that found their partners in the rooms of AA (being a gay man here also). I have not dated much in the rooms here, but I am not opposed to the idea. I also think that you should have your wits about you by 1 year and definitely by 2. Yeah...you are new to recovery, but to say no relationships with anyone under 10 years sobriety is total lunacy. I have met people with a solid year of recovery that are way more grounded than some individuals with 20 years sobriety. Generalizations are pointless. The 1 year rule is probably good...but you are both over that. So...just be honest and be an adult. Not so complicated. Tell the guy EXACTLY how you feel. Sounds like you feel it is unnatural to end the friendship but you aren't sure if being his friend is going to cause him frustration and lead to weirdness between you.
I did have to end a friendship with a guy in AA that repeatedly came on to me again and again despite being turned down more times than I could count. That guy actually told me he was obsessed with me and that is when I stopped all interaction. You are not at that point yet....so relax.
Just my opinion. Take it for whatever you want.
Jorvick said
Oct 27, 2010
I like to make notes of my views and questions I raised and then try to read them as a different person. Normally if it's work related I imagine myself as my employer, maybe in this case imaging yourself as your sponsor.
Sounds like this friendship is important to you, would it last a relationship?
Saying that, reading your posts has just given the thought that my sponsor is off on one because we like the same girl...... alkies eh?
Rainspa said
Oct 27, 2010
It isn't a slogan or sound bite, and takes some reflection, but the suggestion for dealing with this is in the Big Book.
LinBaba posted it.
I am a wee bit concerned with pronouncements about time
(1 year? 2? If you get a dozen years under your belt do you get to date goats?)
and the blanket judgement of others, sight and sobriety unseen (no alkies in or out of recovery)
this is why:
If we follow these rules (hard, fast and man made) then the opportunity to pray, meditate work the program and put trust in God is diminished.
"To sum up about sex: We earnestly pray for the right ideal, for guidance in each questionable situation, for sanity, and for the strength to do the right thing."
Trusting in God, praying for guidance and not relying on a human power, but on a higher power are what I find in the AA liturature.
Last I checked, sponsors are to help you work the steps. Growing spiritually and emotionally are the result of working the steps.
Obeying rules (even from kind and well meaning people) if you're an alcoholic like me ususally ends in resentment and rebellion.
What answer do you get when you pray about this?
John said
Oct 29, 2010
Really good stuff here. In the late 1930's AA relationships were not much of an issue. We didn't interfer with them or have any opinion of them because they just weren't happening. I mean my gawh, has anyone ever seen a pic of the first female AA member? Not an attractive site I promise. The sex revolution of the 1960's was so far away. Alcoholics in the early days, coming to or being brought to the program were for the most part ol' homeless road dogs, rail road bums, unemployed, shunned members of society. Now if that doesnt' increase your sexual appetite I don't know what to tell ya! LOL
Today we have a very different society or population than what AA was born into. We are a fellowship with some of the worlds most attractive, creative, intelligent, and sexually active and open people. So, that being said... I'll close with this;
Any time we endulge in a relationship in the rooms with another member who is not truly working the 12 steps, we are much like two tics without a dog...we'll tend to suck the life out of eachother. Our focus gets distorted, and our dependence gets misplaced. Many times in recovery I have had feelings about someone and had to be told to love them enough to leave them alone, so they could start the journey that I have been blessed with, or I'd be most likely stealing the gift from both of us.
John
dagenham said
Nov 5, 2010
So, is this why we must not get involved? Because he is not doing the Steps?
The thing is, he is pretty much without resentments, he puts others before himself, he is very spiritual and he has made his amends - all without doing the steps.
There are many people I know in the programme, who are fundamentally selfish, and quite crazy - but they ARE doing the steps. It seems insane that I would be allowed to get involved with them - but not with him.
Am I misreading this?
LinBaba said
Nov 5, 2010
dagenham wrote:
Am I misreading this?
Yes
do whatever you want, we always do anyway, you have just been given some roadmaps, not "do" or "don't" but "this is what to likely expect"
nazaretalazareta said
October 23rd
Hi there! Im usually skeptical of niche dating platforms, but my friend told me about some fun communities where people meet over shared humor and curiosity. I didnt expect much until I landed in a forum about facesitting fetishdont get me wrong, its more about mutual respect and lighthearted banter than anything wild. I loved the way people here talk freely about boundaries and comfort. Ive met some genuinely fun folks, and weve laughed about everything from cooking disasters to random Netflix obsessions. Sometimes, its not about finding love but finding connection.
AlexSeen said
November 23rd
Hallo, ich wollte etwas Neues testen, ohne groß zu planen, und bin zufällig auf https://spinmama.ch gekommen. Die Seite ist angenehm strukturiert, Spiele laden schnell und es gibt wirklich viele Kategorien. Für Schweizer Spieler ist praktisch, dass man in CHF zahlen kann und lokale Optionen hat. Die Boni sind regelmäßig und abwechslungsreich. Mir gefällt die entspannte Art der Seite.
I wonder if you guys can help me with a worry I have. A few weeks ago my closest friend in recovery told me that he had feelings for me. I am a gay man and so is he. I had heard that this could be dangerous to his recovery, so I told him that I like him but I do not feel the same way and that our friendship would have to change as a result of his feelings (he is only a year sober).
My sponsor told me that relationships between 2 alcoholics, in or out of recovery, are a recipe for disaster - and I tend to think he may be right.
I spoke to my sponsor and he suggested I distance myself from this guy. So I haven't been in touch. He called a couple of times but I spoke noncommittally to him until he hung up after five minutes and then the second time the phone cut out and I didn't ring back. He tries to engage me in conversation but I make do with giving vague answers, not telling him anything about my life and not encouraging his friendship in any way. I have been told this is the best approach to avoid him getting the wrong idea and I have to face the fact that we cannot be friends any more. I avoid being left alone with him after meetings, and if I am in a group situation I try to keep my distance from him physically and conversationally, where possible. Although we can't be friends, I am always friendly and polite towards hm.
I feel sad about this. I would like your help in two ways - could you please tell me
a) Is this the correct way for me to deal with a situation like this according to AA rules? Is my sponsor correct? and
b) How do you feel I should be dealing with it? Any tips...
Two more things to add which might help, I am just under two years sober myself, The guy in question has not attempted to suggest we have a relationship since we had that first awkward conversation. In fact, even then, he only said he had feelings for me and how sorry he was - not that he wanted to be my boyfriend. Since I distanced myself from him he has remained very friendly and he does seem to want me to still be his friend, always asking how I am and making jokes etc.
It would lift a great weight from my shoulders if you could tell me the correct way to proceed because I am feeling guilty and sad. Thanks. John.
Do you want a relationship with this man? it doesn't appear so or you'd be in one with him
I have found sometimes taking distance is the best thing to do, what are those song lyrics, "You have to be cruel to be kind"
You are both over 18, you both have over a year, you are a consenting adult, as is he, are you making your decision based on fear? on being true to yourself? On what your sponsor tells you or hearsay you have heard in meetings about relationships?
I tend to choose sponsors any more who give me the same respect and consideration my God does, ie; give me the information and then allow me to make my own mistakes
I'm not very big on sponsors who tell their sponcees what relationships they can and can't have, ESPECIALLY after a year of sobriety, this is an understatement, I would make this person show me exactly where in ANY piece of AA literature it tells him he can tell me who or what or when I am allowed to have a relationship
The first year of being alone is good solid sound experience within AA as a whole, but hell even parents can only raise their children and hope they instill good values before they let their children go live their own lives, after that it's just controlling, manipulative, and codependent behavior, and unhealthy for all concerned
My experience is dating anyone with less then about 10 years is complete and utter lunacy, but that is MY experience and I researched that well and often before I came to that conclusion, I will NEVER say "do as I say not as I do" to a sponsee, the flip side is I have found dating the "unevolved" just as stupid, in or out of the rooms seems to make no difference (truthfully with the caveat that they do have at least 3 years of sobriety, I include me in that statement, I was a train wreck my first few years, and I have had more then one "first few years"
The thing is I learned this by experiencing it for myself, I had the highest highs, and the lowest lows, and if I paid attention my character defects were revealed to allow me to work on them, and truthfully it was part of my growth process, no pun intended
I like what the BB says, which summed up basically says, sex is good, follow your heart, and don't harm others or yourself
Good sound advice
As far what is the "correct" AA thing to do:
Now about sex. Many of needed an overhauling there. But above all, we tried to be sensible on this question. It's so easy to get way off the track. Here we find human opinions running to extremes absurd extremes, perhaps. One set of voices cry th at sex is a lust of our lower nature, a base necessity of procreation.
Then we have the voices who cry for sex and more sex; who bewail the institution of marriage; who think that most of the troubles of the race are traceable to sex causes. They think we do not have enough of it, or that it isn't the right kind. They s ee its significance everywhere. One school would allow man no flavor for his fare and the other would have us all on a straight pepper diet. We want to stay out of this controversy. We do not want to be the arbiter of anyone's sex conduct. We all have sex problems. We'd hardly be human if we didn't. What can we do about them?
We reviewed our own conduct over the years past. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, or inconsiderate? Whom had we hurt? Did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy, suspicion or bitterness? Where were we at fault, what should we have done instead? We got this all down on paper and looked at it.
In this way we tried to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future sex life. We subjected each relation to this test -was it selfish or not? We asked God to mold our ideals and help us to live up to them. We remembered always that our sex powers we re God-given and therefore good, neither to be used lightly or selfishly nor to be despised and loathed.
Whatever our ideal turns out to be, we must be willing to grow toward it. We must be willing to make amends where we have done harm, provided that we do not bring about still more harm in so doing. In other words, we treat sex as we would any other p roblem. In meditation, we ask God what we should do about each specific matter. The right answer will come, if we want it.
God alone can judge our sex situation. Counsel with persons is often desirable, but we let God be the final judge. We realize that some people are as fanatical about sex as others are loose. We avoid hysterical thinking or advice.
Suppose we fall short of the chosen ideal and stumble? Does this mean we are going to get drunk. Some people tell us so. But this is only a half-truth. It depends on us and on our motives. If we are sorry for what we have done, and have the honest desire to let God take us to better things, we believe we will be forgiven and will have learned our lesson. If we are not sorry, and our conduct continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing. These are facts out of our ex perience.
To sum up about sex: We earnestly pray for the right ideal, for guidance in each questionable situation, for sanity, and for the strength to do the right thing. If sex is very troublesome, we throw ourselves the harder into helping others. We think o f their needs and work for them. This takes us out of ourselves. It quiets the imperious urge, when to yield would mean heartache.
-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 26th of October 2010 06:58:07 PM
Today we have a very different society or population than what AA was born into. We are a fellowship with some of the worlds most attractive, creative, intelligent, and sexually active and open people. So, that being said... I'll close with this;
Any time we endulge in a relationship in the rooms with another member who is not truly working the 12 steps, we are much like two tics without a dog...we'll tend to suck the life out of eachother. Our focus gets distorted, and our dependence gets misplaced. Many times in recovery I have had feelings about someone and had to be told to love them enough to leave them alone, so they could start the journey that I have been blessed with, or I'd be most likely stealing the gift from both of us.
John
Hi there! Im usually skeptical of niche dating platforms, but my friend told me about some fun communities where people meet over shared humor and curiosity. I didnt expect much until I landed in a forum about facesitting fetishdont get me wrong, its more about mutual respect and lighthearted banter than anything wild. I loved the way people here talk freely about boundaries and comfort. Ive met some genuinely fun folks, and weve laughed about everything from cooking disasters to random Netflix obsessions. Sometimes, its not about finding love but finding connection.
Hallo, ich wollte etwas Neues testen, ohne groß zu planen, und bin zufällig auf https://spinmama.ch gekommen. Die Seite ist angenehm strukturiert, Spiele laden schnell und es gibt wirklich viele Kategorien. Für Schweizer Spieler ist praktisch, dass man in CHF zahlen kann und lokale Optionen hat. Die Boni sind regelmäßig und abwechslungsreich. Mir gefällt die entspannte Art der Seite.