We have a man who is actually very nice, but he seems bent on proving he can stay sober without doing the steps, or probably more like doing the steps his way. I feel like that is fine I guess (for him), but when he speaks at meetings about it I am worried about the message he may be sending to new people.

Our purpose is to carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic, after we have done the steps, and continue to live in 10, 11, & 12. I guess I feel like he is making a mockery of the steps and the book. But, he does want to be sober (see the traditions) and he has over a year under his belt. He has stated several times he will not ever get a sponsor.

Would be out of line to quietly speak to him after a meeting about the message he sends to the newcomer? I guess I feel like he can do whatever he wants, but he should respect the program. I am stumped, so I have prayed and now I give it to the people.

Thats a tough one. The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking. I have always been told that in meetings to take what I could use and leave the rest. Just because he doesn't have a sponser doesnt make him wrong. I know many people who use the group as a whole as their sponsor me included. Am I against sponsorship absolutly not. But I use the whole group and it works for me now. If I feel like I need the added support I will get one. Now if the guy continues to come to meetings who is to say that his attitude towards the steps wont change. We cant make others do the program our way. I know that what was taught to me in the beginning is now heard a different way as I grow in the program.  But each year the guy will learn more and adjust to a better way for him. I would stress to the new comers what worked for you and to take what works and leave the rest.

-- Edited by SUSIE on Thursday 23rd of September 2010 08:54:43 AM

-- Edited by SUSIE on Thursday 23rd of September 2010 08:56:41 AM

Some newcomers may relate more to him than they can relate to others. He is doing something right if he is sober (and nice) A sponsor is helpful perhaps but not imperative.

He may not be carrying the message as some wish to hear it but it is his message.....it is what is/has worked for him A Day at A Time........his ESH to date.....like Susie said, that may change.......

I can understand your concern but I find we lead by example more than by words - some folks who sit and talk about the 12 Steps and how wonderfully they are incorporating them into their lives leave me mystified! Seems they "talk" a good program........

I actually admire his courage to be what may be a "lone voice" within the group.

Love
Louisa xx

It seems to me that the program works as well as it does because it's a personal thing. I understand your concern for the newcomer, but asking one person to change how they work the program (or don't?) during meetings seems wrong to me. As long as the traditions aren't being broken, there's not much that can be done. Voicing your concerns in private with him might be the one way to go. When he shares, is he speaking from personal experience? As long as he's saying "this is how I do it and work the program" and not saying "this is what we have to do" I see no harm. Early on in my sobriety my sponsor made sure I only used the word "I" and never "we" until it became a habit. I'm reminded that there are many people sober who never set foot in an AA room and have never worked the steps. I would say a better way to handle the situation is to make sure the newcomer understands the how's and why's of the program, and that we offer guidance and suggestions only. I've had to pull a newcomer aside and let them know that although there are people that want to tell you how to do it, it's really about listening to experience and suggestions and making up your own mind. I don't know ANYONE who works the program the same way I do, and that's fine with me. Instead of taking his inventory for him, I simply need to be happy for him that he finally found a way that keeps him sober. When you say "Our purpose is to carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic, after we have done the steps, and continue to live in 10, 11, & 12", did you mean that were not supposed to carry the message until we've worked the steps? I'm a little confused about that. Brian

"Live and Let Live"  Comes to mind

Larry,
---------------
I can't do God's will Larry's way

I know exactly where you're comin from and I can certainly relate. Baffles me when I hear ppl share ( especially at an open talk meeting ) their story and yet never mention God, the steps, a sponsor, the book. I wonder to myself, how in the heck are they stayin sober ? I remember early in sobriety I use to attend a meeting that was held 4 nights a week. Often times the local detox house would send their patients to this meeting. Old timers and new comers alike who were accustomed to attending this meeting often acted very ( and I do mean very ) childish. Actually it was sometimes like going to a circus. Many times I left there so angry cuz the behavior was most definately NOT of recovery and the message I was getting was .. these ppl are just a bunch of idiots. I would often leave the meeting and come home to get in touch with my sponsor and Id complain about this particular meeting to her. I was mainly concerned about the new person from the detox house and what they would get from the meeting or what they had to think about it all. What kind of a message were they getting ? My sponsor asked me , " Who keeps you sober ? " I said, " Me and God ". And she said 'okay, then, what makes you think God isnt gonna help that new person from detox too then ?'. I had my answer. My sponsor also suggested that after a meeting I make it a point to talk to the new ppl and give them my phone number.

I like this thread also.  Feedback hit right in the middle of my experiences and
what I have learned.   Thanks guys.   The lesson it reminded me of when I first
got here was, "Keep and open mind."    ((((hugs))))

My experience in AA is so much better when I am just a participant and an example then when I am The AA Police, that just gets so tedious and the only one who gets upset is me, except of course when I offer "helpful advice" then everyone gets upset

Being one of the "doing it right" guys just gets to be such a chore as to be a full time job, I'd rather be one the "happy" guys

Atrraction Not Promotion

Brian said-"When you say "Our purpose is to carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic, after we have done the steps, and continue to live in 10, 11, & 12", did you mean that were not supposed to carry the message until we've worked the steps? I'm a little confused about that." 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps... Hmmm...does not actually specify which ones, so is it just some of 'em, or 1 through 11? In the old days, the steps were taken fairly rapidy...from a few hours to just a few days, so the spiritual awakening in step 12 and the rest of 12 was presumably put in motion very early in sobriety. These days, you hear a lot about people "working" the steps, rather than taking them. ...we tried (not being perfect!) to carry this message to alcoholics Doesn't say "suffering"-I think that phrase actually came out of NA in the 70's "...a moment of silence for the addict who still suffers" and worked it's way into AA in the 80's. Any historians out there? :) (I'm just having fun-not being picky.)

To the OP

Oh, and the guy who got a year just by going to meetings? It happens. It talks about different types of drinkers in the book.

What the guy in the meeting has, and how he keeps sober, is by the Grace of God. You've heard of a grace period? There is sometimes one for bills - you've got a certain time that you are allowed to slide without paying the price because they trust you will pay and are being kind. 

It's a gift, but it doesn't last forever.  Which is also why people can come to AA, sit in the meetings, talk about recovery, not work the steps, stay sober for a while, and.......

Get Drunk.


"If an alcoholic failed to enlarge and perfect his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead."

 
But for Alcoholics of my type, (and possibly yours), no human power can relieve our alcoholism. One day, sooner or later, staying sober will be put to the test. Some people get to come back. Some don't.



Brian said-"When you say "Our purpose is to carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic, after we have done the steps, and continue to live in 10, 11, & 12", did you mean that were not supposed to carry the message until we've worked the steps? I'm a little confused about that."

Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. This is the Great Fact for us."


Short version:
House in order= 12 steps, in order, as suggested, from the book, you know the drill.
Cannot transmit something you haven't got = Like they said "obvious". 

I found this, and it might help.

"Step No. 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
________________________________________

This step logically separates into three parts:

1. The Spiritual Experience

The terms "spiritual experience" and "spiritual awakening" used here and in the book Alcoholics Anonymous mean (upon careful reading)


...that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many forms.


Most of our experiences are what psychologist William James calls "the educational variety" because they develop slowly over a period of time.

Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself.


2. Carry the Message to Others

This means exactly what it says. Carry the message actively. Bring it to the person who needs it.

3. We Practice These Principles in All Our Affairs

This last part of the Twelfth Step is the real purpose that all of the twelve steps lead to - - a new way of life, a design for living. It shows how to live rightly, think rightly and to achieve happiness. "

It does say THIS message in step 12, so the 12 steps, and what happens as a result are the message of AA.

What happened to you after working the 12 steps is hard to talk about honestly unless you've.....well, you get it.


Oh, and the guy who got a year just by going to meetings? It happens. It talks about different types of drinkers in the book.

But for Alcoholics of my type, (and possibly yours), no human power can relieve our alcoholism. One day, sooner or later, staying sober will be put to the test. Somepeople get to come back. Some don't.

What I don't understand is people why people that don't want to do AA GO to AA.

I don't want to do woodworking, so I never go to a woodshop.


Look what I just found:
Our Heavenly Father- We ask Thy blessings on this meeting. Please bless the spirit and the purpose of this group. Give us strength to follow this program according to Thy will and in all humility. Forgive us for yesterday, and grant us courage for today and hope for tomorrow. Amen.

Opening AA meeting prayer, Detroit, Michigan, 1945

Maybe this will help.

-- Edited by Rainspa on Friday 24th of September 2010 08:26:17 PM

-- Edited by Rainspa on Friday 24th of September 2010 11:05:23 PM

-- Edited by Rainspa on Saturday 25th of September 2010 04:14:56 PM

-- Edited by Rainspa on Saturday 25th of September 2010 04:37:14 PM

-- Edited by Rainspa on Saturday 25th of September 2010 04:37:44 PM

Could be simple, he may not be an alcoholic. If he is like me then that will not work forever.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I am not going to do anything but mind my own business and make sure I stay sober and do my best to live in the principles.