I'm a happy sober for 25 years woman who moved 3 years ago to a new hometown where I had heard that the women's fellowship was strong.  Until this move, I'd attended meetings in my hometown and surrounding area for 22 years and was in a routine with familiar faces and meeting friends.  I've heard it said that alcoholics, creatures of habit, move into a rut then furnish it, and there's no doubt I'd done that and was comfortable in my cozy sobriety groove.

When I announced myself as new to the meetings, though not a newcomer to the program at women's meetings in my new hometown, I was disappointed that the women didn't make much of a fuss, giving out their phone numbers and welcoming me.  I took notice of this reaction and chided myself for making a big deal out of wanting to be special and thought I should check in with my sponsor about my self-centered ego's reactivity. Consequently I spent some time asking my Higher Power to relieve me of the bondage of this tireless foe, my often too fragile ego.  I resolved to make a conscious effort to extend MYself to all the women at the next few meetings, instead of expecting things to be the other way around.  The result was rewarded by smiles and banter in the kitchen around the coffee pot and I began to feel that I had found my "place" in these new meetings. 

I did notice, however, that when I was absent for any reason, there were no phone calls to check on me, so again I checked my self-centeredness as the culprit and recognized that it was up to me to call others and let others know I wouldn't be coming because of this or that reason - in other words, be proactive instead of just waiting to be noticed like some old fashioned wallflower type at a dance.   I thought I was doing ok taking responsibility for my feelings and reactions and trying not to to take offense, but a part of me still didn't really feel fully accepted for some reason.  I wondered what that was all about, and again, put it down to old ideas about wanting to be noticed and treated in some special way, and just tried to let it go.    My sponsor agreed with me.

My schedule changed recently and I found it necessary to attend meetings at different times so I've not been back to the large meetings where I'd been working hard at being accepted by the women, trying to be a part of and not apart from everyone.  Not surprsingly, my absence didn't bring about a flurry of concerned phone calls, but eventually a single call did come, from a woman I've known for over 20 years in the program, asking after me, hoping things were well.  After I expressed gratitude for her caring call,  I decided to tell her honestly about my sense of disappointment and the vague feeling of being excluded at these women's meetings (2 of them) and to my relief she said she completely understood, as she had felt the same herself and knew of others who felt the same way.   At those particular meetings, we noted, there seemed to be several little cliques who sat together, went for coffee together, had lunches together and called on each other to share but often excluded others outside their cliques.  So instead of finding fault with these women for being in exclusive cliques I decided to contemplate what need is fulfilled by being part of a clique in the first place.

Obviously a sense of belonging is something every human being strongly desires and needs.  How often have we heard that newcomers come into AA and immediately feel at home.  I've had the sense of "finding my tribe" many times and that's part of the success of AA - we are a fellowship of people who would not otherwise mix.  But how this addresses the tendency of women in large groups to form exclusive cliques is not clearly answered.  I began to realize that part of the problem might arise when a group becomes so large that the individual need for personal connection can no longer be met except by a few who then form a smaller clique within the larger group, so that there IS a sense of personal connection.  All of this is very natural and understandable, but the problem arises when the clique becomes exclusive and others are left out.

Now, I can see where some of you reading this would simply imagine I am grousing over nothing much, that I should get over myself, that yes indeed I am suffering from wounded ego and am just jealous because I'm not part of the "popular crowd".  To which I reply, yes, of course you could be right about any of that, but I add a reminder that AA is a spiritual program and not high school and the idea of there being a popular crowd is an old idea and I believe it is dangerous.

Fortunately, being sober these many years now,  I am not deeply wounded but I simply notice this tendency among some women in larger groups  and I'm genuinely concerned that the attitude of exclusivity is a serious problem.  Embracing only those who dress, appear and sound "just like us" is not working a spiritual program.  In a spiritual program, all are equal, because spirit has no color, class, race, religion, it simply is pure acceptance, tolerance and loving kindness. So,  I negotiated a space in a local church, and mentioned the idea of starting a new group to women who were not members of any cliques, as far as I could tell and there is now a new women's group in my hometown.   The meeting is 3 months old, is on steady ground with regular attendees and up to this point is not so large that intimate connection with visitors or new members is impossible.  Cliques have not been necessary, so far, but they could still happen.  I hope not but I'm not the boss of the meeting, our loving Group Conscience guided by a Higher Power is.  And I'm grateful for that.

This is written simply as a reminder that we must be inclusive of all at every level within our meetings. Alcoholism is an equal opportunity disease.  AA is not a social club, high school or religion, with the attendant problems of hierarchy, membership rules and dogma.    It is a spiritual fellowship in which, if we are lucky, we enjoy the companionship of many others in a spirit of true equality for all.  I have seen wonderful examples of kindness, patience, tolerance between members who "would not normally mix" and as a society, AA as a whole is second to none.  I'd love to see this carried over into some of the larger groups of women's meetings too, where gossip, cattyness and superficial comparisons can sometimes obscure the beauty of our beloved spiritual program.

I readily confess that in my earlier years of sobriety I've indulged in my share of gossip and enjoyed the false intimacy to be found in cliques until eventually I had a moment of clarity and caught myself.  I thank my Higher Power and sponsor for guiding me through yet another layer of rigorous honesty so that I continue to live as God intends for us to be, happy, joyous and free.

May we maintain our conscious contact with a Higher Power that our awareness continues to become clearer, that our guidance becomes stronger, that our love of our fellows be sincere and beyond self-seeking motives.  Thus we bring our best selves into the world making it a better place for all.

Hi Caromack,

-- Edited by sandy2010 on Monday 7th of June 2010 05:45:57 PM

thanks for your thoughtful comments, I agree, it's a WE program.

Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum Caromack. I too recently celebrated 25 years sober in AA. I moved from my hometown in Ohio to GA about 10 years ago. I too started a meeting a few years ago, mostly because of unhappiness of the meeting structure/crosstalk and handling of newcomers. Like you said, I need to remember to keep the ego in check, it's not about me today, it's about trying to help the new person feel comfortable and fit into the group and I try to help get them active and connected with other members. None of the cliques need you or I, but the new person needs as much help as they can get. I felt similar to you when I first started attending meetings in the ATL area (why don't they call on me? Do they not know the great wisdom and soberiety I have??) Today I really have a lot of wonderful friends in GA now. It's funny that the closest friends I have are all about 10 to 7 years sober, those are the folks I got to know the best when we both started attending meetings in the area!! God always has a plan for us. Take Care and thanks again for sharing. Rob

Good thread and topic. Its nice to know that there are ppl in AA who are aware of what is really going on sometimes. Not only with ourselves, but with others and a group or meeting in general. I myself got involved in a clique when I first tried to get sober. I wanted to fit in and felt like I was a part of something. I was new, I didnt know any better. I kept in close touch with my sponsor and she guided me well. I distinctively remember her saying that 'cliques kill ppl '. One thing I have noticed is that the cliques arent always found in just the larger meetings/groups. I have seen them in small ones too. I got wise after my last drunk. I got tired of dealing with these types and the meetings I was going to and started a BB meeting in my community under the guidance of my sponsor and God. Best thing I could have ever done for myself and thats not being selfish by any means

I am new to this forum and was refreshed at your posting. 
I have been sober for 26 years, and experienced very much what you described.

I tried to tell myself that I should be the "Elder Statesman", and possible lead by example.  however, we alcoholics are sensitive folks.  I was hurt because I was not invited to the pot luck lunches, wasn't invited to their eating-out events...etc.
after attempting to belong for over a year, I just chose to look for a meeting where I did feel that belonging and acceptance.

I may be developing a negative side of the fellowship, because I found myself blaming the "younger generation".   Once I recognized this attitued in myself, I came to some ideas for myself.
 I looked into some of their pracitces: they allow someone with only 2-3 months of sobriety to chair meetings and hold positions of a trusted servent.  I knew that I couldn't change this, so I began searching for meetings who ran themselves more in a God Consciensious method and practiced AA principals along the lines of what I knew.

Now I am happy and content within a fellowship where I feel that belonging and acceptance.  I am also able to extend my hand to offer my experience, strenght and hope.  I pray for the particular group that allowed me to experience the negartive and hurtful situations. 

appreciate your experience strength and hope Rob - may we keep on trudging - C

great isn't it when you get a moment of clarity - out of our discomfort and pain, if we are paying attention, comes the opportunity for something beautiful - thank God your sponsor's wisdom guided you, but you were open to it, and that is God's grace at work in you - may your BB meeting continue to thrive - blessings C

I used to go to a meeting that was fairly large.  My daughter found it as one we could go to regularly together at the time, because they had babysitting for my granddaughter.  We went there long enough - really just a couple years - to where my granddaughter went from being babysat, to being the babysitter and she even got a little share of the basket for her trouble.

It was for the sake of convenience we chose this meeting - I would not have been a regular there otherwise.  It was an interesting group of people that sat in round table cliques, and those who spoke at meetings were expected to shout over the rumble of a large air conditioner in the church basement.  After being told for the umpteeth time to "talk louder" - something I had NEVER ever been told to do in my life before, I just decided to make it my experiment in tolerance.  For one year, I just listened in that meeting and never volunteered.  I did get called on once or twice, but it was probably an act of desperation by the chairperson when the topic was flailing.  It was an interesting experience.  I did have some friends at that meeting - whom I knew from other meetings - that shared my opinion of it, and they often encouraged me to share more often, but they noticed my plan of silence and accepted it.

It was a good experience for me overall.  I learned that I could get something from a meeting without having to talk, that even people I thought were shallow and screwy could have something of value to say, and that different kinds of meetings and meeting cultures exist for a reason.  The people at that meeting were staying sober, and they may have not gotten along with my home group or other meetings I found more to my liking.  This particular meeting did have a few "gurus" that had a certain amount of status and minions, but this only affected maybe 25% of the regulars, the rest of us didn't get our notice of how special these guys were.... LOL.

The best thing about my HOME group though - even if we may appear to be a clique to outsiders - is that no one there is ever going to come up to me after a meeting and tell my how "profound" something I said in the meeting was.  I've been going there long enough that there's nothing I can say that they haven't heard before, and I know not to talk past the first eye-roll.  There's no ego-stroking going on there, so if ego stroking is a clique, my home group isn't one.  LOL.

I sometimes wonder why long timers in AA drift away, or seek only the most comfortable meetings and refuse to go anyplace else.  One of AA's greatest benefits to me is diversity and tolerance.  Not drinking goes against my nature, so does tolerating the opinions and viewpoints of people I disagree with or just plain dislike.  I've been reflecting on my childhood, and one particular cohort from grade school stands out in my mind.  Let's call him John.  He was not my friend - most of the time.  He was a natural ringleader, with numerous followers.  I failed almost immediately as one of his followers, because I didn't like the way he treated me.  So I became the "minority leader".  I never really intended to be a leader, but my opposition to this person and my rivalry with him - which lasted six years - shaped my personality in ways I'm just beginning to discover.  And there were times when we were friends, but then we'd drift back into rivalry again.  We went off to different high schools, and I never saw him again.  I always wondered what became of him... he was the straight A student, ringleader, the good example the teachers and parents too held up... "Why can't you be more like John?" - yet I knew him as manipulative and devious... like so many "leaders"... LOL.  Like I said, we're defined by our enemies as much as by our friends.  If I ever came across the guy today, I'd shake his hand and thank him for giving me so much purpose, good times, and strengthening my own character.

There are Johns in AA meetings, and I recognize them immediately.  They push old buttons in me, but I welcome the opportunity to interact and observe - both the Johns and myself.  Sure, they make me uncomfortable, but I continue to go against my nature - as John F. Kennedy said, "not because it's easy but because it's hard".

Barisax

What an interesting thread! Caromack, you certainly brought out some very important thoughts, and hit on some of my most recent experiences. I love your ability to step back and work for clarity about yourself and those around you. I am also 25 years sober, and moved to a new city three years ago. I am laughing now remembering the advice of another old-timer who moved a lot - he said that I should never tell people how long I've been sober in this new town, because they would automatically assume that I don't need help. It was harder than I thought it would be to "establish" myself in AA in my new hometown. Part of it was me and my situation - I got pregnant the week I moved here, so within that first year my life and schedule was torn apart. I went to fewer meetings, not more. I suffered from not making friends or feeling like I was really a part of any one meeting. My husband isn't in recovery, so that added another element of disconnection. Finally I found my homegroup, which I love. I participated in a group inventory, which I would highly recommend if you have never done it. One of the questions raised was if the group had problems with exclusivity/cliques/not having the "new girl" feel welcome. It was very enlightening and the most active question presented. I believe that it is hard (harder?) to be new in a meeting with some time, versus being the "new girl/new guy" in a meeting. I think there is some difference between cliques, groups of good friends, informal social groups in meetings, and whatever else. What is most important for me is that I am aware of who I'm talking to, and who I'm not talking to. Doing that group inventory was inspiring. I was taught to always seek out and talk to the "new girl" in AA, and I try to practice doing that, but sometimes it has to be a conscious effort on my part. Over the years I have been openly judged for being in cliques in AA, and yet I was often praised for my strong efforts to make new girls feel welcomed, comfortable, and a real part of the meeting. I'm sure both are accurate. And remember, I got sober at 17, so this was literally high school for me!! Still, what about others who aren't brand-spanking new? Often I am lazy, or hurried, or have some good reason to speak with only a select few at a meeting. When I was 8 years sober I lived in Los Angeles for 6 months, and that opened my eyes to how I had a tendency to ignore people who aren't newcomers. My most recent move has reminded me again. I love the point that was made about openmindedness and acceptance of all - it is actually work to get out of your comfort zone of who you know and/or who is most like you. Still, my sobriety benefits from "checking in" with those who know me well. Like most things in life, I think its a balancing act. So I'm grateful for this post that reminds me of yet another way that I need to be balanced. The ironic thing for me is that now that I have a strong base in AA here, I'm about to move back to my hometown where I got sober. Ha! But we have temporary housing in a suburb that is 20-30 mins from many of my old regular meetings, and I may need some babysitting meetings now too, so I think I can have the adventure of getting to know many new folks again. As always, this site touches on what is happening with me right now. THANKS!

Call me a selfish prick, but while I LOVE every single person at my home-group meetings...I don't like them all. I don't have to. Need a ride? Sure, I'll offer it without you having to ask me, but do I wanna hear about your dysfunctional grandkids? No. Our homegroup is too small to have cliques. There aren't but a dozen core-members and the most I've ever seen in the room is 30. One fella comes in straight out of the dairy barn, doesn't wash his hands before grabbing into the cookie jar or after he takes a leak and wonders why the heck I don't want him snatchin' chips off my plate. Do I LOVE the nasty hayseed? Yeah. I do. Will I give him a ride anywhere? No. He smells like cow piss...and lots of it. Peace, Rob

agree with your comment about complacency - I try to include my early days' struggling, mine were also in december '84, before Xmas, just couldn't make it through the holidays - when I was a newcomer, those who talked about the drinking part got my attention the most !

Re: Speaking about early days in sobriety

Aren't we asked to share What it was like, What happened, and What it's like Now?

While one's first days sober are of value to the newcomer, there are many in AA who still suffer years into the program.  I think they need to hear how people stayed sober.

YMMV

Hi Rainspa, I agree, when sharing as a speaker we do include the whole range of experience, past to present - in sharing in a topic discussion meeting however, I always mention the drinking part of my experience, on purpose, so the newcomers feel included. As for staying sober, if an AA member is just going to meetings and not drinking, but not actively working steps with sponsor/sponsees, then perhaps they are just staying dry - not much spiritual life in that, not perhaps the full benefit of sobriety and therefore more vulnerable to a slip. I've seen many an oldtimer slip because they didn't have a sponsor any more and didn't work steps with anyone, even if they went out to coffee and "talked good program" with others. It's not for us to judge others if they do slip. God knows what could take any one of us "out". I am just grateful for my sober time to this point.