July 12     For without some degree of humility, no alcoholic can stay sober at all ... Without it, they cannot live to much useful purpose,or, in adversity be able to summon the faith that can meet any emergency.  Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions p.70

Why do I balk at the word "humility"? I am not humbling myself toward other people, but toward God, as I understand Him. Humility means "to show submissive respect," and by being humble I realize I am not the center of the universe. When I  was drinking, I was consumed by pride  and self- centeredness. I felt the entire world revolved around me, that I was master of my destiny. Humility enables me to depend more on God to help me to overcome obstacles, to help me with my own imperfections, so that I may grow spiritually. I must solve more diffucult problems to increase my proficiency and, as I encounter life's stumbling blocks, I must learn to overcome them through God's help. Daily communion with God demonstrates my humility and provides me with the realization that an entity more powerful than I is willing to help me if I cease trying to play God myself.  Daily Reflections p. 202

Don't agree with that definition. (and don't figure Gammy will take it personally if I say so.)

Humility has nothing to do with submission. If anything I think submission leads people to experience diminished respect. It is through an experience of equality, sometimes simply in our potential, that we derive respect for others.

Do we respect a copper just because he wears a uniform? I don't. I respect a copper who speaks to me as a fellow human being while attempting to share his understanding of the law.

Humility is a lowered estimate of ones own importance in the greater scheme of things. It is recognising our equal part and the responsibilities that do not require praise, thanks or recognition. It is doing your part, because you can, not because you expect to derive a reward, acknowledgement or raise in status.

If the above definition was correct...that being: "humility is to show submissive respect". Then the teacher, or the respected, would be devoid of humility in the first place.

To begin practicing humility...we begin with random acts of kindness. We learn to give and live quietly and anonymously. We make subtle changes within ourselves on a daily basis. We still take our place on the stage if required, and we do so with an increasing internal faith that fortifies our intentions as true and based on goodness. Other peoples interpretations matter little, because we know exactly why we are where we are. Humility is the key that opens the door to spirituality.

Hey Nic, I can't take your opinion personally, it's your opinion, I always take what I like and leave the rest. The reflections wasn't mine it's from A.A.'s Daily Reflections, written by fellow A.A. members.

I do agree with what the reflection said though, it says " I am not humbling myself to other people, but toward God as I understand Him."Humility means to show submissive respect,"  and by being humble I realize I am not the center of the universe. I had to come to this very point in my life, that is the only way I could take Steps 1, 2 ,and 3. My God did humble himself, He died on a cross for me. That's about me, no one else.

(((Hugs)))

GammyRose

Fair enough. I didn't realise it was a stand alone post.

I read it was a Daily reflections reading. I have been reading your book shares most mornings - that's why I commented...meditated on it yesterday morning, and just thought I'd share on where I came to with it...

As to whether its my opinion or not is interesting...when something comes through meditation is it "just an opinion?"...

...Looks like being one of those reflective, delving kind of days today... This is why I usually leave my shares till the evening when I've woken up properly... and am a bit more inclined to keep it simple.

When a christian quotes the bible - is that 'just an opinion' too then?... Matt or Johns interpretation of something?

Am trying to see where you are coming from..and you know...I'm thinking of Jesus now...the story of him being driven by the whipmaster... dragging that cross through town with everyone jeering him...This is a bloke who had women falling at his feet and men following him everywhere he went, for some time, hanging on his every word. I can clearly see he was probably humbled in a sense by those masses who later turned on him...but I can't see his actual act of humility in this scenario. I see him entering into enforced submission. He, and other criminals were raised above everyone as an example. Their crimes were to be considered. And I'm not sure how that helped people... but you suggest he respected them all as he hung on the cross?... ...that was the act of humility...why do people not discuss his crimes Gammy? Isn't that his human-ness? The thing that unites so many AA's?

I am trying to put it into real terms...need to do that to see if it rings true for me. As alkies we can spend much of our drinking lives with the opposite sex falling at our feet, and there is never any shortage of beer flies who are happy to hang on our every word. The drink can and does enforce submission...once its got a hold of us. It becomes our cross to bear and folks try to whip us into action, before often turning away, some showing reasonable contempt for our unacceptable actions. Some are driven to AA with court orders and may arrive proud and defiant...others crawl through the door oozing of self loathing, both are humbled by the judgement of others...we all have our own crosses to bear. At some time we get down off the cross, stop looking down at others, see our own worth and the worth of everyone around us and stand as an equal human being. I'm considering that our initial act of humility?.. When we give of ourselves honestly, quietly and anonymously, and admit our errors...strive to amend them, we attempt to maintain the humility that restored our strength and provided a taste of faith in the first place.

That is my understanding today.

It is also my understanding that Jesus was a man...he, like you and me, was a child of God. He lived a life worthy of recognition, as we all have - however, if he was a humble man, would he have wanted his life transformed into something beyond human, as it has been? I could think of nothing worse. Mother Theresa struggled with exactly the same problem...always striving to remind people she was not anything other than what you or I or anyone, was capable of being. Why is there a tendency in this world to take worthwhile human contributions and turn them into deities?... Is it laziness, greed, denial?...If we make these people out to be something unattainable or abstract, is it simply a way of avoiding aspiring to the same goodness?

Um...just realised I have delved quite deep with this...and wonder if I should wipe it....I really don't feel like going up against a mob of evangelists who interpret my thoughts as blasphemous or in dire need of baptism. Throughout this conversation I have not lost the image of a red-headed Grandma, holding weary hands in her lap. Her eyes have flashed from behind her glasses at times, and I have hesitated...but continued...because I have come to trust in her.

Sometimes I just need to share my thoughts and pose my questions with other human beings. The critters don't offer much feedback .I have felt safe to do this with you Gammy because I believe we have always had equal, reflective and progressive conversations, so I will leave it here in the hope you or others may feel compelled to respond. I genuinely hope my comments do not offend you, or anyone for that matter. I do respect that we are discussing humility not only from opposite sides of the world, but possibly also through different generations, training and life experience, and we were never meant to begin from the same foundation of understanding.

I spose you have now worked out why my Grandad only turned his hearing aid on at meal times?

Hey Nic, I am just now getting around to reading the board as I have been busy the last few days. Ironically , one of the events I attended on Wednesday evening was my granddaughters baptism. My husband and I travelled to the city with a friend, it was also my son-in-laws birthday and we had a wonderful time.Got to visit with our son as well.I was truly blessed.

As I read your post my eyes did not flash once behind my glasses, because Nic , the one thing A.A. has certainly taught me is to be tolerant of other peoples opinions, believes, unbelieves, their "isms" and what makes them the person they are. I value your input and I will always allow you to be who you are and your thoughts to be yours.  I have read the chapter to the agnostic, and have been in meetings with people who do not believe in God, but in trees or the A.A. group as their higher power, I'm always amazed how they too can stay sober one day at a time. They have humbled themselves to something, and it worked.

Thank you for sharing your insight, I think you understand where I am coming from and I do understand your veiws.My faith is an important part of who I am today, I didn't have any until I got sober 20 years ago, it was the program that helped me find my way.

(((Hugs)))

GammyRose