Hi Folks,

I haven't posted much. I came to this site just about 60 days ago when I was in serious need of help. I haven't had a drink since then. I'm going to four or more meetings a week. I've gotten a sponsor and started the steps. I'm doing Step 4 right now. I've also started meditating and honestly asking myself what certain "spiritual" terms mean to me. Basically I'm feeling pertty good about it all, but I'm having one or two issues.

  My sponsor is a member of this AA men's group that prides itself on being a real no-nonsense, back to basics, hardcore-sobriety, group. To be honest with you, I've rarely encountered a men's group over the last 20 years that DOESN'T pride themselves on being like that. It's really bugging me. I don't think I've been to a single meeting of that group where someone hasn't bad-mouthed other, nameless, groups and basically said that they are inferior. I just don't get the need to do that. Furthermore, while the enthusiasm is obvious, it's pretty much one big long cheerleading session. They tend to frown on meetings where people discuss the issues they deal with in their daily lives. I understand what they're saying, up to a point, but it feels to me like they are as far at one end of the spectrum with their non-stop sloganeering, as other meetings are with their tedious "how I spent my day" sharing.

I agree that the Steps are the core of the program and are really great, but sometimes I'd like to hear HOW they are working in someone's daily life instead of just how endlessly "wonderful" they are.

I guess I just don't care for that meeting. The problem is that my sponsor mentioned last night that I should get a commitment at that meeting. If I do that then I'm stuck there for at least the next six months. That seems bleak to me. They all keep talking about how great this meeting is and I just don't see anything that great about it. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe one meeting is as good as the next and it's just being there that's important.

I've really never been a fan of men's meetings. It's weird. It seems like the guys at men's meetings feel compelled to act "manly", with lots of f-words in the sharing and just this whole macho aura that I just don't relate to. I mean, I'm a guy, but I'm just an average guy. I have a wife and a couple of kids. I don't really swear much. I don't have a Harley. I don't smoke cigars or chew tobacco. The truth is I almost never think of myself as a "man". I don't puzzle over what it "means" to be a man. Heck, I don't even fish. And I don't want to be Super-AA or a follower of the One True Way. To me the Big Book means it when it says "we realize we know but a little". The Big Book fundamentalism at this meeting is really troubling to me.

Thanks for letting me vent. I'm going to discuss this stuff with my sponsor but it's nice to write it out first and see how it sounds to me. Does any of this make sense to anyone else?

 

Best thing you could have ever done was share those thoughts with us Frankie. Thanks. Sharing them at "the" meeting may not have been so productive...as there'd be a tendency for the group to stand together and defend their way of functioning.

Here, we can all really think about your words, and our words, and how they impact on newcomers. I see a pivotal turning point... you have come to a place where you are seeing beyond the cliches. The cliches are important at first, especially when we can't think real good, I remember holding onto some of them for days, even months - just trying to get through with simple measures: asking myself at every decision, How important is it? or telling myself...Come on now "Live and Let live" when folks buggered me about.

But for me there came a time when to live them, I had to stop reciting them and start communicating from the heart, really admit what I was thinking or feeling and learn to do that while trying to minimise any harm (as my mouth was, and still can be, a wild weapon).

I also agree with another point you made about the cheer squad. As I began to notice that some really do just "fake it to make it", I became more and more aware of my responsibilities to my fellow members. If AA is to survive, which to me is so important and driven by a deep gratitude for what I was offered,  it will not merely be because folks gather in one place, take turns to talk for an hour and then leave. The heart of AA, is seen in those members who look you directly in the eye while sharing and will be there outside of the meetings, alongside the ups an downs of life as we live it.

How far we go with others is often debated. There is an invisible line that folks move as it suits them, I think. To me, I do what I can...I go as far as I possibly can to help a fellow member. Because even if I didn't get the same help, I do remember how much I needed help at times. The other day a member visited me, he was talking about going rabbiting because his car had broken down and fixing it left him without grocery money. He has health issues, and rabbiting is not something he should be doing when the docs have told him to take it very easy. Both me and another member offered him money, which he refused. It may have been pride, or fear that he may be unable to repay it...I really don't know. But the fact was, the fellow member was hungry and didn't have food money. When I went shopping yesterday, I filled an extra box for him. I left it at his door when I knew he'd be off feeding his cattle. When he rang worrying about paying for it, I just told him it was probably an AA member who wanted to remain anonymous. There aren't a lot of AA members out here (2 others that I'm aware of) but anonymity allowed me to help the guy and remove any sense of debt for the assistance.

Some folks might call that enabling....I call it working my program. It was me making amends for the times I let my kids run out of milk formula or baby foods because I was 'preoccupied' with the grog. It was me making amends to the early sober Nic, who couldn't think straight and decided food shopping "wasn't so important after all" because she was clinging on to cliches and just trying to avoid the bottle shop next door.

To hear the HOW of working the steps, stick around. The fact we get to write things out, is healing for all of us.

All the best,

Nic

 

Hey Frank, All I can say is ... YES I understand completely what you mean. You've been around AA a while now I guess. For myself, I generally pick meetings which are better suited to me. The "middle way" so to speak. Thankfully, there are a lot of meetings around here. As for "we realize we know but a little"... I think Bill W. himself was always seeking and was a bit of an iconoclast to some folks in his later years. To thine own self be true.

Glad you checked in Frankie. It sounds like you are growing and thinking about what would be best for you. Talk it over with your sponsor and see what you can live with. If you have more than one meeting you can attend then maybe it's time to branch out.I like mixed groups better than others, that way you get different ideas.

Keep up the sobriety and keep posting, I missed you!

(((Hugs)))

GammyRose

Hi frankie,

Glad you checked in. It's great to hear that you are sober and working the steps. It sounds like you are growing and not just following along with the "crowd".

I am not a fan of gender-specific meetings. It seems to me that it sets up a type of uniqueness that we as alcoholics don't need.. Ya know, that MAN just doesn't understand what we as women have to go through,etc...When I got sober, an 80 year old man said the one thing to me that made me want to stay sober, I wanted what he had and he was willing to sahre with me how to get it. I got my 1 yr chip the same day he got his 30 yr chip and I will never forget sharing that day with him. If I had been going to a woman's meeting, I never would have experienced that.

My home group is considered the no-nonsense hard-core AA in town,but we're not AA Nazis.We welcome the newcomer, talk about steps and traditions, learn to live the program in our daily lives.We seem to have found that happy medium between dictating to people how they will behave and  constantly having a "how is my day going" meeting.We get alot of newcomers because we are the only meeting in town that allows smoking, so we had to figure out how to keep the meetings on an AA track. My hope for you is that you can find a meeting that you are happy with, comfortable going to and sharing, and making your commitment to that group. If you can get to different meetings, you should try some of them out.

I would definitely talk to the sponsor and tell him what you told us, how you feel about that meeting and what his suggestions would be. Let us know how you're doing,ok?

Love,cheri

I appreciate all the feedback. I'm a little surprised it was so positively received. It's hard for me to tell when I', on the right track and when "my head is trying to kill me" as an old sponsor of mine used to say. Thanks again!

 

Oh the memories of early AA meetings.  I hated the men's only crowd.   I spent my whole life burying my feelings in a bottle...  I wanted to feel...  I wanted to cry.  For me, this could only be done with a mixed crowd.  There were some meetings I never felt at home at, so I quit going to them and found groups that I was comfortable with.   I truly loved "mixed" meetings where AA and Al-anon were together.

The basic premise is that recovery is an individual program, that can never be forgotten.  Find what you like and go where you want to go.  Sobriety is meant to be enjoyable... physically, spiritually, and emotionally.  Best wishes

Dave

www.daveharm.com