Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power."
~Alcoholics Anonymous, 4th Edition, More About Alcoholism, pg. 43~
Rick said
Mar 30, 2005
Hello all
Been busy, trying to catch up on my reading.
Guess I missed a couple days.
Good Info Nic
Maybe if I knew how bad Alcohol and Drugs were I wouldn' have Drank sooo much and done soooo many
But Then It might have took longer to get here ?? Ya think??
Guess I Drank every drink I needed.
Ah well It's over Today-- Time to turn the lights out
ellen said
Mar 30, 2005
that has been the topic of alot of meetings here reciently. and it really does matter on your spiritual condition. never could understand that before but that was only because i didn't have a spiritual bone in my body. too self absorbed- however that has been thee difference. i believe that you will not have that issue if you are spiritually fit. i think that when we lose faith that drinking becomes an option. and knowing that it is that easy to pick up keeps me vigilant- to connect with my higher power everyday to keep me focused. rarely have we seen a person fail who has throughly followed our path...
enough said great topic
Nic said
Mar 31, 2005
Ah good on ya, Rick!!! I love it when folks want to question stuff..
We all learn when we question how things work, what things mean and if things ring true to us.
This is what that passage means to me... It probably means different things to different people, but this is what I get out of it.
It's a big aspect of step two, I think....and the key words are "at certain times"...so I will rewrite it with those words stressed, so you can see how I read it.
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power."
I believe we have to learn to build and develop our defense against that first drink...we have to learn to say No, because our entire being has been geared around saying yes for such a long time. We learn we CAN say no when we realise we are not on our own with it. For me this happened at about 3 months in...things were going pretty well, I'd managed to stay away from situations that made me uncomfortable, and I'd had the chance to say No (somewhat hesitantly and not with any real strength, but I was saying it).
It was my daughters birthday, and all of a sudden I had lots of people in my home that I used to drink with...I thought I'd be ok with this, but I hadn't planned on the mental workout I was in for. Many old friends and family members travelled in for the birthday party...and all of these people had only seen me for short periods at a time and considered me totally functional and began insisting I had no problem, when I explained I wasn't drinking anymore. I'd asked an AA member to be there, and when I turned to him, feeling really confused, he said, "Well, maybe you haven't had enough, or you would know this yourself."
So, somehow in my twisted head...I took that as a ticket to drink again. I convinced myself I should test the water again. I waited for the next person to say, "Ya sure you don't want a drink, Nic?" and I laughed and said, "Yeah, why not!" There was a cheer and rum and coke quickly made its way to my hands. I looked at it and I smelt it, and I went to drink it...and out of bloody nowhere came a soccer ball from the other end of the acreage where the kids were playing...the drink was knocked straight out of my hands.
The drink went flying and I looked up to see this young fella running over apologising and spinning out, worried he had hurt me. Everyone started fussing, thinking the ball had actually hit me, but I wasn't hurt it had just flown straight past me taking the drink with it. Someone rushed off to get me a new drink and it was offered much quicker than I'd gathered my wits, so I just put the new drink at the leg of my chair while I sorta just spun out. When I eventually went to reach for it again, one of the toddlers tripped and knocked it empty again! I just started shaking my head, and kept shaking it. I said No for the rest of the night.
The situation in some weird way, made sense to me. Co-incidences maybe? I thought so.. and decided co-incidences were not something I wanted to ignore anymore. I kept wondering how the young fella had lobbed the ball so far to start with... He was the teams best shooter, and he rarely missed a shot. It was weird but I came through it feeling like there was something bigger than me at work here. Something was looking out for me, and if I could trust that goodness in the world, that works through kids, and signs and anything really...then I'd be ok.
So coming to believe, for me...had nothing to do with bibles or church, or voices from the heavens...it was just me finding my place in the greater scheme of things...recognising that something much greater than me was at work - and I really want to be a part of it. I was born a part of it and for some reason (which doesn't matter..) I'd spent a long time swimming against that current.
When I step two with people I ask them to compile a list of miracles that they've experienced, and they usually look at me kinda odd at first. But I have never stepped with ONE alkie, that couldn't make the list. And didn't look absolutely inspired when they began counting the 'unbelievable or extraordinary' things that had happened to them. It is a wonderful moment, when we realise we are not alone with things, that we have been protected from some really dangerous situations, and that that power has been working for us all along!
So there are certain times, when we find our defense or resolve weakens, and we need only remind ourselves and trust that we have come to believe in a power greater than us, and when we least expect it, miracles or blessings can and do happen. It helps if we've already counted them, I think...but sometimes it is also the start of that counting.
I hope this makes sense to someone... it may not be the answer you were looking for Rick, but maybe it helps someone.
All the best.
-- Edited by Nic at 05:27, 2005-03-31
cheri said
Mar 31, 2005
Hi Nic,
It made perfect sense to me. I was fortunate enough for the miracles to be so obvious that I couldn't turn my back on them. Guess God got tired of me pretending that it was coincidence...
Thanks,Cheri
Rick said
Apr 1, 2005
Hi Nic
I have no problem with a higher power, that I choose to call GOD
You make real good sense
Just ANOTHER example of a higher power.
As you say most of us can tell some stories of how we found our Higher Power
defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither
he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense
must come from a Higher Power."
~Alcoholics Anonymous, 4th Edition, More About Alcoholism, pg. 43~
Hello all
Been busy, trying to catch up on my reading.
Guess I missed a couple days.
Good Info Nic
Maybe if I knew how bad Alcohol and Drugs were I wouldn' have Drank sooo much and done soooo many
But Then It might have took longer to get here ?? Ya think??
Guess I Drank every drink I needed.
Ah well It's over Today-- Time to turn the lights out
that has been the topic of alot of meetings here reciently. and it really does matter on your spiritual condition. never could understand that before but that was only because i didn't have a spiritual bone in my body. too self absorbed- however that has been thee difference. i believe that you will not have that issue if you are spiritually fit. i think that when we lose faith that drinking becomes an option. and knowing that it is that easy to pick up keeps me vigilant- to connect with my higher power everyday to keep me focused. rarely have we seen a person fail who has throughly followed our path...
enough said great topic
Ah good on ya, Rick!!! I love it when folks want to question stuff..
We all learn when we question how things work, what things mean and if things ring true to us.
This is what that passage means to me... It probably means different things to different people, but this is what I get out of it.
It's a big aspect of step two, I think....and the key words are "at certain times"...so I will rewrite it with those words stressed, so you can see how I read it.
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental
defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither
he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense
must come from a Higher Power."
I believe we have to learn to build and develop our defense against that first drink...we have to learn to say No, because our entire being has been geared around saying yes for such a long time. We learn we CAN say no when we realise we are not on our own with it. For me this happened at about 3 months in...things were going pretty well, I'd managed to stay away from situations that made me uncomfortable, and I'd had the chance to say No (somewhat hesitantly and not with any real strength, but I was saying it).
It was my daughters birthday, and all of a sudden I had lots of people in my home that I used to drink with...I thought I'd be ok with this, but I hadn't planned on the mental workout I was in for. Many old friends and family members travelled in for the birthday party...and all of these people had only seen me for short periods at a time and considered me totally functional and began insisting I had no problem, when I explained I wasn't drinking anymore. I'd asked an AA member to be there, and when I turned to him, feeling really confused, he said, "Well, maybe you haven't had enough, or you would know this yourself."
So, somehow in my twisted head...I took that as a ticket to drink again. I convinced myself I should test the water again. I waited for the next person to say, "Ya sure you don't want a drink, Nic?" and I laughed and said, "Yeah, why not!" There was a cheer and rum and coke quickly made its way to my hands. I looked at it and I smelt it, and I went to drink it...and out of bloody nowhere came a soccer ball from the other end of the acreage where the kids were playing...the drink was knocked straight out of my hands.
The drink went flying and I looked up to see this young fella running over apologising and spinning out, worried he had hurt me. Everyone started fussing, thinking the ball had actually hit me, but I wasn't hurt it had just flown straight past me taking the drink with it. Someone rushed off to get me a new drink and it was offered much quicker than I'd gathered my wits, so I just put the new drink at the leg of my chair while I sorta just spun out. When I eventually went to reach for it again, one of the toddlers tripped and knocked it empty again! I just started shaking my head, and kept shaking it. I said No for the rest of the night.
The situation in some weird way, made sense to me. Co-incidences maybe? I thought so.. and decided co-incidences were not something I wanted to ignore anymore. I kept wondering how the young fella had lobbed the ball so far to start with... He was the teams best shooter, and he rarely missed a shot. It was weird but I came through it feeling like there was something bigger than me at work here. Something was looking out for me, and if I could trust that goodness in the world, that works through kids, and signs and anything really...then I'd be ok.
So coming to believe, for me...had nothing to do with bibles or church, or voices from the heavens...it was just me finding my place in the greater scheme of things...recognising that something much greater than me was at work - and I really want to be a part of it. I was born a part of it and for some reason (which doesn't matter..) I'd spent a long time swimming against that current.
When I step two with people I ask them to compile a list of miracles that they've experienced, and they usually look at me kinda odd at first. But I have never stepped with ONE alkie, that couldn't make the list. And didn't look absolutely inspired when they began counting the 'unbelievable or extraordinary' things that had happened to them. It is a wonderful moment, when we realise we are not alone with things, that we have been protected from some really dangerous situations, and that that power has been working for us all along!
So there are certain times, when we find our defense or resolve weakens, and we need only remind ourselves and trust that we have come to believe in a power greater than us, and when we least expect it, miracles or blessings can and do happen. It helps if we've already counted them, I think...but sometimes it is also the start of that counting.
I hope this makes sense to someone... it may not be the answer you were looking for Rick, but maybe it helps someone.
All the best.
-- Edited by Nic at 05:27, 2005-03-31
Hi Nic,
It made perfect sense to me. I was fortunate enough for the miracles to be so obvious that I couldn't turn my back on them. Guess God got tired of me pretending that it was coincidence...
Thanks,Cheri
Hi Nic
I have no problem with a higher power, that I choose to call GOD
You make real good sense
Just ANOTHER example of a higher power.
As you say most of us can tell some stories of how we found our Higher Power
Sometimes I post just to get a little feed back
Take Care