i just know that it probably an alcoholic with terminal uniqueness who came up wth that one.  i say keep it simple we can't afford to pay translators

Who exactly are you insinuating is going to die, Ellen? 

Yes. Let's keep it simple. It helps if you speak directly.

I'll shout a translator, no worries...if it helps increase understanding.

just saying that since bill and bob who helped develop this program (BEING DEVINELY INSPIRED) in it's most simple and dirrect form to treat alcoholism- including what was written in the doctors opinion it seams to me that in 69 years of THIS treatment of alcoholism is succesful. because it is so simple.

besides what ever name they want to come up with to discribe the behaviors to make them more palatable.  i only think that it makes people hide behind lables to continue the behaviors...i know most active alkies do.  and they have a field day with it.

terminal uniqueness is a term that is meant to say that don't think that everything is exclusive to you.  you can say that you need to be treated differently but that only means that you are playing victim.

just think that the content of what you posted was great and informitive but it is just so establisment to give it a big name only to make it seem so flamboyant and simply isn't that what the 12 steps try to get rid of.  that sense of we are special and the world needs to know this. adapt to us instead of taking responsibility.  i really can see an alcoholic using all of these terms to fuel themselves.

bad enough some use the slogans and context of the literature for loopholeing to keep behaviors that you must get rid of to WORK the program.

don't take offense i just think they say keep it simple for a reason and for 69 years it has been working fine.

Cardiomyopathy is a legitimate medical term. The myocardium is 'the middle layer of the walls of the heart, composed of cardiac muscle". If you need a simpler term it would be 'pickled heart'. Neuropathy from alcoholism,,, including Korsakov's would be 'pickled brain'.  These are not laughing matters, nor are they caused from 'getting pissed too much'.  They are what the poison of alcohol does to your body.

sometimes we tend to make fun of things we don't understand,,, but it doesn't make the concept look silly,,,  it makes us look silly. I have seen people with cirrhosis,,,,  we all know what that is don't we?  You have heard of delirium tremens?  These are also the results of pickling the body.  They are horrible ways to die.  And Phil,,,,  real death.

love in recovery,

amanda

i really know that it is a medical term.  i guess that i would hate to see someone think that why get sober if i have screwed my self up and there is no hope. 

sure for some that is very true and we call it wet brained. i just would hate to see some one new in recovery and not have the insight yet to use it as an excuse to keep drinking.

the realities are grim when alcoholism is not treated.  i wish that i could shake it out of the people i know who continually use substances and watch their condition deteriorate.  i hate to see that--however they always seem to say that "whats the use i am screwed  up anyway"

to me physically you might be but this program is not external it is internal and even with physical ailments you can find serenity and sobriety.  hate to just be in the problem. 

Ellen, I think your use of the term "terminal uniqueness" goes against the very point you are trying to make.

The effects of drinking - the behaviours, physical damage, cognitive defenses and disease development are conditions of alcoholism.

How we consider these things, or attempt to simplify them, test them, negotiate them (or even deny them) is a part of eventually increasing our understanding of alcoholism.

I posted those particular conditions because they helped me negotiate certain experiences I had in sobriety, after I stopped drinking. They were not intended as a means to increase denial and further suffering, I thought they may increase some hope in the form of self awareness and understanding.  I also vaguely tried to add info to a post from some time ago, when one of our mates mentioned he was having palpitations and experiencing some physical anxiety and panic in the chest area after stopping. Another guy mentioned the pins and needles at some time too. I also hoped that newcomers with an interest in science, may consider some of the things, and it may help them relate to something tangible. Some folks really need things to make cognitive sense...when we develop an understanding of a Higher Power it becomes maybe less necessary... I dunno...there's a part of me that still likes things to add up.

Keeping it simple, is NOT a simple concept. We are all very different people, with different interests, experiences, education and personal inventories. It would be ridiculous to say that what you consider simple is simple for others. We all have different ways of simplifying things. Some folks like to detract from things, minimise them and call that simple...others like to be able to 'see' how things have grown - that to them is simple. Others like to see all the pieces and they consider that simple. Some like to make a rule and figure that is simple. Whatever works.

Helping others comes down to a common denominator (not creating division by just pointing out a problem as being unique to him/her)...we strive to eliminate the element of uniqueness and find the thing we relate to with the other person...because we know this will give us both a fighting chase. We find the one "simple" thing we can relate to and work with them THEIR way, not our way, or the bibles way, and sometimes not even the big books way, because folks suffering active alcoholism detour all over the place. Some folks call it Gods way...who am I to pretend I really know God's way? (I've tried to do that but always ended up looking self righteous).Meetings and situations where we share our progress help to fill those gaps.

We have lots of guides, but none of them work for everyone...if they did, alcoholism wouldn't exist and all we'd have to do would be to hand folks a manual and they'd be right. 69 years is a wonderful achievement for AA. Along the way many AA's have managed to overcome their personal nightmares - but not everyone, so we strive to share what we have found, because we never really know what kind of ripple our little bit of pain or progress may make. Once the feeling of uniqueness is diminished and people feel a sense of association or affiliation (mutual understanding) - then we have AA's working together.

Then we all stand a chance.

None of us are any different in essence. But if you were to consider our uniqueness, there is a good chance we could fill a few exercise books with how we are different. We would then need to find other AA's to remind us we are individually ok...perfect as intended.. and hope/pray someone would have the time and patience to do this for us. I think the mere suggestion of terminal uniqueness, can undo a great deal of work by others, and contribute to a lot of mental trauma for those who honestly thought they were progressing alongside others.

I can't help but wonder if it would make any difference to your appraisal of these articles and the potential for progress, if I was to suggest to you that the researcher, lab technician, proof reader and webmaster were all AA's?... It shouldn't, but I have a feeling it might? Folks with long time sobriety...that are searching for ways in which to help others, providing for their service, beyond the simple ways in which we begin..by visiting the ER's, rehabs etc... Simply trying to give back and say thankyou for the second chance they were granted. Might work for you a bit better, maybe?

I understand that folks can use things to hide behind, and twist things like the cliches to suit their own purpose. I have most certainly done it. It can be frustrating when folks see things so very differently - but it is ok, as long as we still have our common purpose in mind, and can come back to that, if nothing else, to remind ourselves we are not and never have been unique in our struggles to comprehend, navigate and overcome alcoholism.

All the best, Nic.

P.S. The suggestion that I know the history of the article's contributors development is merely nothing but a suggestion. I don't.