Thanks for all your replies to my questions on drinking and the stinking thinking.
I agree Nic. As much as I deny it and dont want to hear it. I know it is the most important thing to do and the only way to my recovery. I must just not drink. If I am not an alcoholic then why would I have such a hard time with stopping? right?
I am an alcoholic and I want my life to improve- I want to hand over to my HP and let go. I am trying to attend the next AA meeting online. I have to just get the times straight and wake up early. I am grateful today that my spouse is a very compassionate person and a no nonsense person too. I would never want to stop drinking if it wasnt for him right now in my life.
Thank you for the encouragement and keeping me focused
Suzy
Rick said
Mar 25, 2005
Suzy
Nic is right
You have to stop drinking to stop drinking!!! It's easy to stop.
Staying stopped is a different matter!
You have to stop for you, not your husband or anybody else. You said: I would never want to stop drinking if it wasnt for him right now in my life.
Sounds like your questioning yourself.
Am I an alcoholic?? You said: If I am not an alcoholic then why would I have such a hard time with stopping? right?
Only you can answer that question.
My dad was Alcoholic also. I use to read his grapevines when they layed around. I knew I was Alcoholic long before I cared to do something about it.
It's the insanity--doing the same thing over and over expecting different results--Know what I mean??
Get to a meeting-- meet some people--shake some hands-- ask for phone numbers-- don't be afraid to ask for help.
I only mean to help You need to figure out what you want for you.
The big book says something to the effect-- if you have any doubts if your an alcoholic or not, go try somemore controlled drinking and it shouldn't take long to figure it out.
Once you quit drinking you can work on the stinking thinking. And not before, it takes TIME to change your thinking
TIME - THINGS I MUST EARN
Best of luck Were here for you
Suzy said
Mar 26, 2005
Thanks Rick
I am thinking about it a lot. I know simply that I dont want to stop drinking but I do want to change my thinking. That is the honest truth! I wonder if any 'normal' drinkers want to stop drinking or even know if they can because they will never try to. . They keep drinking because it is socially acceptable and it does not mean they are alcoholics. I still have no literature at home. I think I am going to have to read the BB online. Is it available on this site?? I think that if nothing else I will benefit from the Acoa meetings too. I keep missing the AA meetings as it is 6am and I wake at 7, but I will try again.
Regards
Suzy
Nic said
Mar 27, 2005
I usually leave the BB posts to others who seem to do a great job of intuitively posting piecemeal what works, but this bit may be what you are looking for...
"You may already have asked oursself why it is that all of us became very ill from drinking. Doubltless you are curious to discover the how and why, in the face of expert opinion to the contrary, we have recovered from a hopless condition of mind and body. If an alcoholic wants to get over it, you may be asking - "What do I have to do?"
It is the purpose of this book [Alcoholics Anonymous = us...we are what you will find in the big book]to answer such questions specifically. We shall tell you what we have done. Before going into a detailed discussions, it may be well to summarize some points as we see them.
How many times people have said to us: "I can take it or leave it alone. Why can't he?" "Why don't you drink like a gentleman or quit?" "That fellow can't handle his liquor." "Why don't you try beer or wine?". "Just lay of the hard stuff." "His will power must be weakl." "He could stop if he wanted to." "She's such a sweet girl, I should think he'd stop for her sake." "The doctor told him that if he ever drank again, it would kill him, but there he is all lit up again."
Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time. Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding. We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.
Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.
Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason - ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor - becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liqour consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for one day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes,a nd has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches mad,ly for the bottle he misplaced the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. AS matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who give him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.
This is by no means, a comprehensive pricture of the true alcoholic, as our behaviour patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly.(p21-22)
The BB then goes on to describe the frustrations experienced by each of us...how we ask a lot of why's...and finally have to admitit just doesn't matter why. The only solution that has ever existed has been to stop drinking.
The true alkie exerpt above is my story Suzy...is also the story of many, many others who looked in the mirror and decided "something has just gotta change here." We tried changing everything around us; people, places, things, even thinking...none of it worked. We were still caught in that progressive cycle that had us headed in lots of directions, and none of them were destinations we actually wanted to visit. We had to stop drinking to change things. We had to stop thinking maybe we were 'normal' and accept that our behaviour was very normal for an alcoholic.
That acceptance is a lot easier when we have other functioning alcoholics around to remind us that alkies are not brain-dead, filthy slobs (or whatever else our thinking had conjured up), but that alkies always were human beings with hearts, minds and goals, that they CAN use positively once they stop drinking and get on with living the lives that have been waiting for them.
I used to torture myself with endless analysis, and an AA friend came to recognise the face I pulled when I was doing this. He would say:
Oi! Stop thinking...start doing.
And so I would refocus on what I could DO, right now in this moment, to make sure I stayed stopped. I think it helped. Today, I do a lot of doing...I slowly learned to, I guess. For such a long time, I'd kept myself locked up in my own torture chamber of thoughts. Stopping drinking sets you free of such a lot of things...
It really is the key.
leejosepho said
Aug 5, 2005
Nic wrote:
The only solution that has ever existed has been to stop drinking ...
Stopping drinking sets you free of such a lot of things... It really is the key.
Greetings to you, Nic, and to all.
Being new to this forum, I was doing a little looking around by searching for "recovered". One of my first stops was in a thread with an article about why we should study A.A. history ... and I eventually ended up here.
According to "A.A. history", stopping drinking only accomplishes one thing:
"All [alcoholics] have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving ... The only relief we have to suggest [for that physical, one-drink-takes-another craving] is entire abstinence.
"This immediately precipitates us into a seething caldron of debate. Much has been written pro and con, but among physicians, the general opinion seems to be that most chronic alcoholics are doomed" ("Doctor's Opinion") ...
"There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it - this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish" (page 34).
Personally, I had specifically tried "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time" well before I had ever been to any A.A. meeting, and I ended up coming here because I absolutely could not "Don't drink". I had heard about a former acquaintance who was "sober", and when I had gone to see him about that he had told me that the reason I could *not* stop drinking was because I was an alcoholic.
If anyone at my first A.A. meetings over twenty years ago had told me it was up to me to stay away from the first drink, I would have left and died -- Remember, I had already tried that and absolutely could not do it -- in utter despair.
I might not be a fully-qualified A.A. historian, but I do clearly know and understand why anything even close to "Just don't drink" is simply nowhere to be found in our Basic Text.
Am I alone here, or is there anyone like me yet alive?!
Recovery truly can be permanent, you know, but only under certain conditions clearly revealed in "Alcoholics Anonymous", the book.
Thanks for all your replies to my questions on drinking and the stinking thinking.
I agree Nic. As much as I deny it and dont want to hear it. I know it is the most important thing to do and the only way to my recovery. I must just not drink. If I am not an alcoholic then why would I have such a hard time with stopping? right?
I am an alcoholic and I want my life to improve- I want to hand over to my HP and let go. I am trying to attend the next AA meeting online. I have to just get the times straight and wake up early. I am grateful today that my spouse is a very compassionate person and a no nonsense person too. I would never want to stop drinking if it wasnt for him right now in my life.
Thank you for the encouragement and keeping me focused
Suzy
Suzy
Nic is right
You have to stop drinking to stop drinking!!! It's easy to stop.
Staying stopped is a different matter!
You have to stop for you, not your husband or anybody else. You said: I would never want to stop drinking if it wasnt for him right now in my life.
Sounds like your questioning yourself.
Am I an alcoholic?? You said: If I am not an alcoholic then why would I have such a hard time with stopping? right?
Only you can answer that question.
My dad was Alcoholic also. I use to read his grapevines when they layed around. I knew I was Alcoholic long before I cared to do something about it.
It's the insanity--doing the same thing over and over expecting different results--Know what I mean??
Get to a meeting-- meet some people--shake some hands-- ask for phone numbers-- don't be afraid to ask for help.
I only mean to help You need to figure out what you want for you.
The big book says something to the effect-- if you have any doubts if your an alcoholic or not, go try somemore controlled drinking and it shouldn't take long to figure it out.
Once you quit drinking you can work on the stinking thinking. And not before, it takes TIME to change your thinking
TIME - THINGS I MUST EARN
Best of luck Were here for you
Thanks Rick
I am thinking about it a lot. I know simply that I dont want to stop drinking but I do want to change my thinking. That is the honest truth! I wonder if any 'normal' drinkers want to stop drinking or even know if they can because they will never try to. . They keep drinking because it is socially acceptable and it does not mean they are alcoholics. I still have no literature at home. I think I am going to have to read the BB online. Is it available on this site?? I think that if nothing else I will benefit from the Acoa meetings too. I keep missing the AA meetings as it is 6am and I wake at 7, but I will try again.
Regards
Suzy
I usually leave the BB posts to others who seem to do a great job of intuitively posting piecemeal what works, but this bit may be what you are looking for...
"You may already have asked oursself why it is that all of us became very ill from drinking. Doubltless you are curious to discover the how and why, in the face of expert opinion to the contrary, we have recovered from a hopless condition of mind and body. If an alcoholic wants to get over it, you may be asking - "What do I have to do?"
It is the purpose of this book [Alcoholics Anonymous = us...we are what you will find in the big book]to answer such questions specifically. We shall tell you what we have done. Before going into a detailed discussions, it may be well to summarize some points as we see them.
How many times people have said to us: "I can take it or leave it alone. Why can't he?" "Why don't you drink like a gentleman or quit?" "That fellow can't handle his liquor." "Why don't you try beer or wine?". "Just lay of the hard stuff." "His will power must be weakl." "He could stop if he wanted to." "She's such a sweet girl, I should think he'd stop for her sake." "The doctor told him that if he ever drank again, it would kill him, but there he is all lit up again."
Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time. Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding. We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.
Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.
Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason - ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor - becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liqour consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for one day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes,a nd has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches mad,ly for the bottle he misplaced the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. AS matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who give him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.
This is by no means, a comprehensive pricture of the true alcoholic, as our behaviour patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly.(p21-22)
The BB then goes on to describe the frustrations experienced by each of us...how we ask a lot of why's...and finally have to admitit just doesn't matter why. The only solution that has ever existed has been to stop drinking.
The true alkie exerpt above is my story Suzy...is also the story of many, many others who looked in the mirror and decided "something has just gotta change here." We tried changing everything around us; people, places, things, even thinking...none of it worked. We were still caught in that progressive cycle that had us headed in lots of directions, and none of them were destinations we actually wanted to visit. We had to stop drinking to change things. We had to stop thinking maybe we were 'normal' and accept that our behaviour was very normal for an alcoholic.
That acceptance is a lot easier when we have other functioning alcoholics around to remind us that alkies are not brain-dead, filthy slobs (or whatever else our thinking had conjured up), but that alkies always were human beings with hearts, minds and goals, that they CAN use positively once they stop drinking and get on with living the lives that have been waiting for them.
I used to torture myself with endless analysis, and an AA friend came to recognise the face I pulled when I was doing this. He would say:
Oi! Stop thinking...start doing.
And so I would refocus on what I could DO, right now in this moment, to make sure I stayed stopped. I think it helped. Today, I do a lot of doing...I slowly learned to, I guess. For such a long time, I'd kept myself locked up in my own torture chamber of thoughts. Stopping drinking sets you free of such a lot of things...
It really is the key.
Greetings to you, Nic, and to all.
Being new to this forum, I was doing a little looking around by searching for "recovered". One of my first stops was in a thread with an article about why we should study A.A. history ... and I eventually ended up here.
According to "A.A. history", stopping drinking only accomplishes one thing:
"All [alcoholics] have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving ... The only relief we have to suggest [for that physical, one-drink-takes-another craving] is entire abstinence.
"This immediately precipitates us into a seething caldron of debate. Much has been written pro and con, but among physicians, the general opinion seems to be that most chronic alcoholics are doomed" ("Doctor's Opinion") ...
"There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it - this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish" (page 34).
Personally, I had specifically tried "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time" well before I had ever been to any A.A. meeting, and I ended up coming here because I absolutely could not "Don't drink". I had heard about a former acquaintance who was "sober", and when I had gone to see him about that he had told me that the reason I could *not* stop drinking was because I was an alcoholic.
If anyone at my first A.A. meetings over twenty years ago had told me it was up to me to stay away from the first drink, I would have left and died -- Remember, I had already tried that and absolutely could not do it -- in utter despair.
I might not be a fully-qualified A.A. historian, but I do clearly know and understand why anything even close to "Just don't drink" is simply nowhere to be found in our Basic Text.
Am I alone here, or is there anyone like me yet alive?!
Recovery truly can be permanent, you know, but only under certain conditions clearly revealed in "Alcoholics Anonymous", the book.