Life reallys seems to be in 5th gear lately, have been popping in and out - but haven't been hanging around long. So I'm sorry Gammy, for appearing absent, just a lot of things to keep me on my toes, and not a lot of time to just sit with you all.
My thoughts have remained with you all, and I have continued to smile and cheer in the background. It is great to see lots of newcomers coming in. I hope you hang around long enough to soak enough of it up and get a taste of living sober.
I am thinking at the moment about the big book, and what I interpreted as a big push by some members upon another to buy it and read it. I hope no-one interprets this as cause for an arguement, because quite honestly I don't have time for one - but I would like to put something forward for discussion.
It has become somewhat traditional that we make this suggestion - (that folks get the big book), but it isn't actually part of the traditions or steps is it? Originally, there were so FEW members of AA, that helping others was easier by putting shared stories in a book to increase affililiation and understanding, and more importantly hope. I spent many years reading it, and it took me a long time to realise there was no hidden secrets in there. It's about life, living sober and helping others who want to do the same. It simply presented me with the same shared strengths, experiences and hopes (in a somewhat outdated fashion sometimes) that we experience in every interaction with any other alkie.
I didn't just read this book. I studied it like I was preparing for the ultimate exam. In terms of life, I guess I was preparing for a test...because my No is based on what I view as a very firm foundation - BUT that foundation would never have been half as solid if it wasn't for the REAL and tangible experiences that others shared with me. The things we lived through without drinking, the ways we did things, the way we healed, helped and learned to find hope together.
As a professional I've spent quite some time, helping both children and adults learn to read and write. In AA, I have also worked with many illiterate adults. Some learn to read, some don't - but reading isn't the goal in AA. The goal is staying sober. If sobriety all hinged on this book, we would never have sober illiterate members - and we do. So, obviously the big book was not a primary tool for these people, and many have managed to get sober without learning to read.
Some folks just don't like reading, and I'm thinking we can actually be making it all seem a lot harder than it needs to be for some folks when we tell them they need to read "the big book" (just the name itself is kind of intimidating at first) to get sober. Any of us who have read it, know that the book itself is not going to stop them from hurting/fighting/crying or even drinking! I've been called to a pub to pick up a guy who was sitting there with the book in one hand and a drink in the other.
Personally, I needed to study the big book. Doing this helped to retrain my thoughts, challenge my thinking and feel less alone in this big world. There are many though, who have sobriety that is no less meaningful, and haven't or couldn't (for whatever reasons) read the big book. I really believe AA membership is about interacting with other AA's, sharing our recovery and striving to be honest in all our affairs. Whether we do this by mail, online, face to face, on tape or in print, makes little difference - as long as we do it.
I have an AA friend. Ironically he is known as Big Book, because he can quote the big book book verses word for word alongside their page numbers. He can't read. He learned to recite all the readings, by listening to readings in big book meetings for 14 years, and talking with other members. No-one stopped to ask if he could read or not, and folks in their wisdom would all send him off to read page so and so. So he would remember the page numbers and wait for the readings to come around in meetings. After 14 years everyone thought he spent every spare moment reading a book he didn't even own! He learned from those around him. He listened. And he remembered. And he laughed whenever people asked him why he was called Big Book.
He was a very significant part of my recovery. He was the one who told me we have to keep it simple, and just do what works. There is no one way, and we can't assume that anything we share will help anyone, we just hope it does.
Am not sure where this has come from.. just me thinking aloud...but might make for some interesting discussion?
All the best everyone,
Nic
Phil said
Mar 7, 2005
Big Book? Theres a Big Book? hahaha kidding.
We do what we gotta do gal, separately and together.:) and whatever works hu?
You seen Stan the Man around? Still have his phone number--might give him another call one of these days soon.
Ta Ta and onward we go Mate!!
amanda2u2 said
Mar 7, 2005
Thanks for your thoughtful share, Nic. And I'm glad you pop around when you can.
For me,, the most helpful thing is not the Big Book, but the '12 Steps and 12 Traditions' book... cuz the Big Book is about people who recovered,,, but what they all did to recovery was to learn and work the 12 Steps. I like all the literature,,, "Living Sober', "Came to Believe", the Big Book, the pamphlets,,, the slogans... but my most importanat book is the 12 Step book... and meetings, got to share on relevant topics at meetings and listen to the wisdom of others,,, and even the mistakes of others.
love in recovery,
amanda
GammyRose said
Mar 7, 2005
Nic,
I know what you mean about being busy, I'm glad you took time to bring up this topic. What everyone has said is good. I was told to read the first 164 pages of the BB and did so and continue to do so often. I'm with Amanda, I read all of the AA, Al-anon, ACOA,Bible I can get my hands on, but I am a reader. I'm glad that someone reads this literature if they didn't where would the people who don't read hear it.
I always tell people in the program that what I suggest is just that a suggestion, what I did may not work for them.Take what you like and leave the rest.I would love to be like your friend Big Book and quote the stuff but I can not memorize,must be something to do with a few missing brain cells, so I have to look it up and read it over, and over.
Thanks again for the topic and the share. Hope everyone has a great sober day.Or at least a sober day....
(((Hugs)))
GammyRose
Hanuman said
Mar 7, 2005
Nic, I agree with you entirely. Didn't mean to come off as a BB thumper if that's what it sounded like. It's just that I sort of "rediscovered" it lately and got a lot out of it. When I've found myself without meetings (or internet access) the literature has definitely helped me through. Especially the AA Grapevine (our meeting in print, not unlike this forum in many ways). I definitely need all the real live alkies out there to help me. I've always been rather repulsed when things start to sound like dogma and have felt that AA needs to stay dynamic to stay alive. This balance has always been the subject of a lot of lively debate that never seems to go anywhere. Love and tolerance are the key I guess.
stancamden said
Mar 9, 2005
quote: Originally posted by: Phil "Big Book? Theres a Big Book? hahaha kidding.
We do what we gotta do gal, separately and together.:) and whatever works hu?
You seen Stan the Man around? Still have his phone number--might give him another call one of these days soon.
Ta Ta and onward we go Mate!!"
Hi folks - I'm back from deepest Sicilia
At least I missed all the snow in Europe while at school
Hanuman said
Mar 10, 2005
I've been a bit curious about AA history. I found the following regarding the origins of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous":
"Of all the plans Bill and Dr. Bob had discussed in 1937, the proposal to publish a book about the program was the most realistic. Even to many of those who opposed hospitals and paid missionaries, the book made sense (although the plan had been passed by only a bare majority). By setting forth a clear statement of the recovery program, a book could prevent distortion of the message. It could be sent or carried to alcoholics in distant cities."
c. 1984, 'PASS IT ON'...The story of Bill Wilson and how the A.A. message reached the world, page 190
'PASS IT ON' is very interesting. Has anyone else read this book?
Life reallys seems to be in 5th gear lately, have been popping in and out - but haven't been hanging around long. So I'm sorry Gammy, for appearing absent, just a lot of things to keep me on my toes, and not a lot of time to just sit with you all.
My thoughts have remained with you all, and I have continued to smile and cheer in the background. It is great to see lots of newcomers coming in. I hope you hang around long enough to soak enough of it up and get a taste of living sober.
I am thinking at the moment about the big book, and what I interpreted as a big push by some members upon another to buy it and read it. I hope no-one interprets this as cause for an arguement, because quite honestly I don't have time for one - but I would like to put something forward for discussion.
It has become somewhat traditional that we make this suggestion - (that folks get the big book), but it isn't actually part of the traditions or steps is it? Originally, there were so FEW members of AA, that helping others was easier by putting shared stories in a book to increase affililiation and understanding, and more importantly hope. I spent many years reading it, and it took me a long time to realise there was no hidden secrets in there. It's about life, living sober and helping others who want to do the same. It simply presented me with the same shared strengths, experiences and hopes (in a somewhat outdated fashion sometimes) that we experience in every interaction with any other alkie.
I didn't just read this book. I studied it like I was preparing for the ultimate exam. In terms of life, I guess I was preparing for a test...because my No is based on what I view as a very firm foundation - BUT that foundation would never have been half as solid if it wasn't for the REAL and tangible experiences that others shared with me. The things we lived through without drinking, the ways we did things, the way we healed, helped and learned to find hope together.
As a professional I've spent quite some time, helping both children and adults learn to read and write. In AA, I have also worked with many illiterate adults. Some learn to read, some don't - but reading isn't the goal in AA. The goal is staying sober. If sobriety all hinged on this book, we would never have sober illiterate members - and we do. So, obviously the big book was not a primary tool for these people, and many have managed to get sober without learning to read.
Some folks just don't like reading, and I'm thinking we can actually be making it all seem a lot harder than it needs to be for some folks when we tell them they need to read "the big book" (just the name itself is kind of intimidating at first) to get sober. Any of us who have read it, know that the book itself is not going to stop them from hurting/fighting/crying or even drinking! I've been called to a pub to pick up a guy who was sitting there with the book in one hand and a drink in the other.
Personally, I needed to study the big book. Doing this helped to retrain my thoughts, challenge my thinking and feel less alone in this big world. There are many though, who have sobriety that is no less meaningful, and haven't or couldn't (for whatever reasons) read the big book. I really believe AA membership is about interacting with other AA's, sharing our recovery and striving to be honest in all our affairs. Whether we do this by mail, online, face to face, on tape or in print, makes little difference - as long as we do it.
I have an AA friend. Ironically he is known as Big Book, because he can quote the big book book verses word for word alongside their page numbers. He can't read. He learned to recite all the readings, by listening to readings in big book meetings for 14 years, and talking with other members. No-one stopped to ask if he could read or not, and folks in their wisdom would all send him off to read page so and so. So he would remember the page numbers and wait for the readings to come around in meetings. After 14 years everyone thought he spent every spare moment reading a book he didn't even own! He learned from those around him. He listened. And he remembered. And he laughed whenever people asked him why he was called Big Book.
He was a very significant part of my recovery. He was the one who told me we have to keep it simple, and just do what works. There is no one way, and we can't assume that anything we share will help anyone, we just hope it does.
Am not sure where this has come from.. just me thinking aloud...but might make for some interesting discussion?
All the best everyone,
Nic
Big Book? Theres a Big Book? hahaha kidding.
We do what we gotta do gal, separately and together.:) and whatever works hu?
You seen Stan the Man around? Still have his phone number--might give him another call one of these days soon.
Ta Ta and onward we go Mate!!
Thanks for your thoughtful share, Nic. And I'm glad you pop around when you can.
For me,, the most helpful thing is not the Big Book, but the '12 Steps and 12 Traditions' book... cuz the Big Book is about people who recovered,,, but what they all did to recovery was to learn and work the 12 Steps. I like all the literature,,, "Living Sober', "Came to Believe", the Big Book, the pamphlets,,, the slogans... but my most importanat book is the 12 Step book... and meetings, got to share on relevant topics at meetings and listen to the wisdom of others,,, and even the mistakes of others.
love in recovery,
amanda
Nic,
I know what you mean about being busy, I'm glad you took time to bring up this topic. What everyone has said is good. I was told to read the first 164 pages of the BB and did so and continue to do so often. I'm with Amanda, I read all of the AA, Al-anon, ACOA,Bible I can get my hands on, but I am a reader. I'm glad that someone reads this literature if they didn't where would the people who don't read hear it.
I always tell people in the program that what I suggest is just that a suggestion, what I did may not work for them.Take what you like and leave the rest.I would love to be like your friend Big Book and quote the stuff but I can not memorize,must be something to do with a few missing brain cells, so I have to look it up and read it over, and over.
Thanks again for the topic and the share. Hope everyone has a great sober day.Or at least a sober day....
(((Hugs)))
GammyRose