Hi Jen, Phil's right. Lots of reading. And the first thing that came to mind......."take what you need and leave the rest behind." Also......there is always some who will dig up whatever dirt they can to undermine another's reputation. No one is totally perfect......and from what little I read....well guess Mr. Bill had a few flaws. However, what he gave to the general public was the basics to live a pretty decent life if they so chose. It was this simple little seed that has helped soooooo many. In Ireland....Matt Talbot was the equivalent to Dr. Bob/Bill Wilson. He led a pretty colorful life when he was drinking, but by pretty much the same ways as AA he conquered the alcohol demons and became a champion fighting for better working conditions in that country. There are literally thousands upon thousands that in their day and age weren't accepted by their peers yet some where down the line the little seeds of good that were planted by them........helped other others. Part of AA is not to judge others so I just sort of read some parts with an open mind. Certainly will not change MY mind on the good of AA!!!! Read other things here and there that put it down didn't phase me. Whoever, sent it, has his/her own issues. It is hoped that this will not undermine the progress you have made. Wanda PS. Prayers going up for your son. Been there three times. For the most part they all have grown into responsible young adults. One is a correctionals officer. (24) The next is in Army Nat. Guard..goes to Iraq next spring. Ick! He is talking of marriage when his tour is up. He takes his job VERY SERIOUS which is why he volunteered. By the way he was my biggest challenge during those years. I hear him speak about some of the kids he went to school with in not so good terms......and I say......"Don't judge. remember when....." He's 21. the youngest a daughter went through her streak of drinking and having "fun" Motherhood hit before marriage. And even so.......She is doing a tremendous job of parenting! Has a job and is continuing her college classes. I had to learn to put boundaries on ME. I had to "let go" and allow each of them their own mistakes. It was not easy at times and we had some real battles. The blessings came little by little. The biggest one we all survived and lived through it. May those come to you as well.

No biggie, for me......just found it, uh - interesting, I suppose.....first that it was sent to me and 2nd that some 'fool' would put so much effort into discrediting something they obviously can't grasp themselves.....some of it is an interesting read.... Thanks for the prayers, wanda. And especially sharing your ES&H with me. (((hugs)))

i look at the orange papers as one persons opinion. i can take it or leave it, i think its pretty weird someone sent it to you, sounds like a lame attempt to sabotage your recovery. pretty pathetic on their part.

There's always somebody with an ax to grind. But here are my observations.
12 step fellowships aren't run from the top down, there run from the bottom up.
I've done service at the group and area level and there is no profit, nobody is making money selling Big Books or any other literature in the 12 step fellowships.
How can a 12 step fellowship be considered a cult when there's no gain involved, there's no requirement to do anything, you don't have to get a sponsor and you don't have to work the steps and they can't kick you out. You can leave if you want and come back when you want and be welcomed back.

-- Edited by cooncatbob at 21:06, 2007-11-20

Good comments. Also worth noting that much of what is written on Orange Papers, is incorrect or exagerated, Agent Orange has a big grudge, although he doesn't say why. Have a read of www.green-papers.org a great site which checks over some of the references which Orange Papers has misquoted. Happy sobriety.

Ok folks is this spam or an matter of interest? ^^^^^^^^