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Post Info TOPIC: I'm not sure how I should feel about my behavior


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I'm not sure how I should feel about my behavior
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I like to drink a 40oz after work almost everyday. It doesn't affect my life in a negative way. I probably do it 4 times a week after work before bed. My friendships are fine. But I do alternate 7elevens because I don't want them thinking I drink a lot. So in a way I'm sort of self conscious about it. I haven't noticed it getting out of control. Is this something I should concern myself with? I guess I want opinions from people that have been in similar situations. Are there pitfalls I should avoid or things I should keep in mind? I know by definition it makes me an alcoholic but what are your thoughts and advice on things I should look out for. Im not depressed and I don't do it to forget my troubles or things like that.



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Welcome to MIP Erorbot, ... glad to have you here ...

1st off, a major part of our AA program is 'Total Honesty' ... not just with others, but with yourself ... IF a single 40oz'r is as much as you ever drink in a single day, then you might want to see this as a caution flag for your future ... and just by your admission that you are 'self-conscious' about going to the same store to buy your 40, then I'd say that subconsciously, you know this to be too much for you to drink on a regular basis ...

One of the things we alcoholics do as we get progressively worse, is we start 'hiding' how much we drink (and where we get the stuff) ... although you don't seem to abuse alcohol that much, you would certainly want to 'wake-up' to the fact you DO have a problem if you start buying two 40's on the way home ...

I'm very impressed that you are inquiring about addiction to the stuff this early on ... kudos to you ... I won't bother to tell you the 'PURE HELL' that awaits you if you become a heavy drinker ...

You're welcome to go to an AA meeting ('open' meetings welcome those who 'may' or 'may not' be alcoholic) and check it out ... many of your questions will be answered there ...


God Bless,
Pappy



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What Pappy said..

I was alternating places I was buying my alcohol as well for the same reason you are talking about. "I was worried that the clerks (strangers really) of a store would judge me and think I had a drinking problem".
Turned out that they were right if they were. For me, I was dependent on alcohol to get me through not just "bad" or "rough" days, I became dependent on it to get me through "ALL" days and "EVERY" day. It started with a day a week, a couple of days a week and the amount kept increasing. My life did become a "pure hell" as Pappy said, because I did become a very heavy drinker. The grace of God was my second chance at living without that dependency on alcohol and it and AA saved my life.

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You're posting on an Alcoholics Anonymous forum. If you didn't have a problem you wouldn't be here. A good start wouid be to stop the BS minimizing and justifying of the impact your daily drinking is having on your life. After that you can make some positive changes.

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Erorbot wrote:

I like to drink a 40oz after work almost everyday. It doesn't affect my life in a negative way. I probably do it 4 times a week after work before bed. My friendships are fine. But I do alternate 7elevens because I don't want them thinking I drink a lot. So in a way I'm sort of self conscious about it. I haven't noticed it getting out of control. Is this something I should concern myself with? I guess I want opinions from people that have been in similar situations. Are there pitfalls I should avoid or things I should keep in mind? I know by definition it makes me an alcoholic but what are your thoughts and advice on things I should look out for. Im not depressed and I don't do it to forget my troubles or things like that.


 If you are an average-sized or larger adult male drinking a maximum of one 40 oz. of regular beer a maximum of 4 times a week over a long period of time, then you are not an alcoholic. 

If you really drink more than you have stated, you might be, especially if it's LOTS more.

I would not recommend Alcoholics Anonymous for you. Based on your described behavior, it's not appropriate for you.

However, it's good to concerned about the possibility that you might have a drinking problem. Here is a short series of questions, titled Is AA For You? Maybe fill out the survey and see what comes up.

http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/is-aa-for-you-twelve-questions-only-you-can-answer

 

 



-- Edited by Tanin on Wednesday 1st of July 2015 10:37:38 AM

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It would be a waste of time for me to come ask questions here just to lie about my behavior. I'm not minimizing my situation.  And it's because I don't see it being detrimental in my life that I felt that I might need some advice. 



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I'm not sure how to specifically reply to a person but I just wanna say thanks to the replies and your advice. I will keep it in mind.

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You may want to try this if you want to get some more insight into your situation - what happens if you only drink a 16 oz can of beer instead of that 40 oz ? Try it and find out:

1) Are you even able to do this? Or do you find that once you start, you then just 'change your mind' and keep drinking more, even though you had set this 'goal' of limiting your drinking to 16 oz before you started to drink the first beer?

2) If you ARE able to do this and stop at one 16 oz beer, how does it make you feel? Do you enjoy it? Or does it tend to trigger a really uncomfortable phenomenon of 'craving' more, which you then have to fight off in order to achieve this 'goal' of limiting your alcohol to 16 oz?

If you notice either of these effects when you attempt to LIMIT your drinking, you may at least have the potential to develop alcoholism and you should be very aware of this.



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You said you are drinking a 40 oz. container of beer 4x a week. Each 40 oz container has 4.7 drinks. Based on your weekly consumption, you are considered to be a heavy drinker according to info I found on different websites. You may want to consult your doctor to get his or her opinion. Although you may not be an alcoholic, you may be risking physical problems continuing to drink this much.

rethinkingdrinking.niaaa.nih.gov/toolsresources/drinksizecalculator.asp

e-when-is-drinking-a-problem-beyond-the-basics

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Aloha Erorbot  welcome to the site and good on you for the courage to ask the question and out your behavior which says for one thing "I am concerned about this".  Not a problem...I went to college to find out about my drinking style and if it fit the description of being alcoholic.  I didn't take the 23 question assessment until I was 9 years alcohol free and after medical consultation was told the person who took the assessment needed to be in inpatient care or the next time they drank they died,   Alcoholism is cunning, powerful and baffling...it gets into your brain and messes with your mind that thing we think with and so we often trying thinking with a messed up brain...which is what I did and it nearly killed me.  Find out about alcohol which is a toxic substance, which is why one of the ways being drunk or high is called "intoxicated".  Another thing about alcohol is it is diuretic and makes you thirsty which adds to the compulsion of drinking more.  Do you drink 40oz of cola at one sitting?  I never have however booze was another thing for me.  Alcohol comes with a lot of dynamics all designed to keep you drinking (designed yes). 

Good to have you questioning...try the  40oz of soda and see if you get the same outcome...mind, body, spirit and emotions.  See alcohol inhabits all four levels of our self.  wink



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Thanks for the further comments I'm definitely reading them. And basically have decided to cool it and not drink casually at home. Just going to stick with social drinking with friends. I'm easily at a point where I can just do that. I wouldn't want to fall further into this sort of habit.

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Like Jerry said, it's toxic. It's poison. Alcohol is vegetable matter that has rotted past the point of being rotten, it's got all these organisms shittin and pissin in the decaying vegetable matter, and thats what you're drinking. Humans weren't meant to drink toxic stuff. The only reason certain people can drink alcohol and not die from its toxicity, is because their ancestors drank it for thousands of years, and they kind of got used to it, at least to the point of not dropping dead right on the spot. If you look at cultures where alcohol is relatively new, like Native American Indians, their bodies can't tolerate alcohol. They can't process it like other cultures who have had thousands of years to adapt to it can. I've read that approximately 1/3 of oriental folks are physically allergic to it, if they drink even 1 beer, their face turns all red, and they get physically ill. That's why they have a very low rate of alcoholism. 

Erorbot, anybody who drinks alcohol with any sort of regularity, is in some form of alcoholism. It may be an early stage, low or moderate level of alcoholism, and it may never progress to extreme stages, but, then again, it could. Some people drink moderately all their lives, and it never progresses to full-blown alcoholism. For some people, it takes 50 years to get to that stage. Those people aren't posting on here. Yet.



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Erorbot wrote:

Thanks for the further comments I'm definitely reading them. And basically have decided to cool it and not drink casually at home. Just going to stick with social drinking with friends. I'm easily at a point where I can just do that. I wouldn't want to fall further into this sort of habit.


 

Very very responsible of you. Sure wish I would have had your kind of thinking years ago.

 

And baba louie....Thank you for that very graphic explanation...(Yuck! I never knew all that about alcohol and the living organisms doing their business in it...Ewwwww!) That is very interesting reading about the different cultures and how alcohol affects them and I am going to read more about it.



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Ererbot
There's a great chapter in our main book ("Alcoholics Anonymous", known as the Big Book, where the directions on how to recover are).

The Chapter I'm thinking of is called "More About Alcoholism". In it are examples of 4 men, different types of drinkers, 2 are "high bottom".

You might find it very interesting and relate



-- Edited by MakingWaves on Sunday 5th of July 2015 09:37:43 AM

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Baba Louie wrote:

... anybody who drinks alcohol with any sort of regularity, is in some form of alcoholism. It may be an early stage, low or moderate level of alcoholism...


 Interesting theory. Where does it come from, BL?



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Well, there's 2 trains of thought about alcoholism. Some people believe it is a genetic flaw, a physical allergy. Anybody with this allergy is going to become a full-blown alkie if they drink. The other theory is that it is a "progressive" disease. If it is a progressive disease, then people who don't have a major problem with it yet are in the "early stages" of the disease. And, just like some other diseases, (such as diabetes), some people never develop the full-blown version. That doesn't mean they dont have the disease. It just means that it hasn't progressed to a life threatening situation. 

Of course, it's possible that it's genetic AND progressive. Why some people can drink "normally" all their lives, and it never becomes a serious illness, I dont know. It's probably very complicated. Probably a conglomeration of genetics, environment, and abnormal brain activity. 

But, I'm probably not telling you stuff that you don't already know. Or, I'm telling you stuff that you already know. Either way, anybody who drinks with any kid of regularity has a lot bigger shot at becoming a full-blown alcoholic. 

We all started off as casual, normal drinkers in our early years, right? Well, I'm thinking that we were in an early stage of alcoholism. Just like anybody who drinks normally, casually, and with any regularity now.



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I only use this site on mobile right now and I think that affects my ability to reply to a specific comment. But I was interested in what MakingWaves said. Is there a way to find that information online?

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Here is a link to that chapter:

www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt3.pdf

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Thanks for the link

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Hey Erobot - if you look at the research that sprouted around 2004, and the understanding that has grown from that since on the epigenetic factors for alcoholism, (or anything really, that a body is predisposed to being 'really good at) you might just get the answer you're looking for.

I know that, no matter how much I tried to be a drug addict - my body/brain just sucks at it. It is not predisposed epigentically to being really capable at forming zillions of neural pathways when exposed to drugs.  But alcohol on the other hand - well - my brain is like a genius and all ready to become amazing at driving me to it and keeping me looking for it - essentially hijacking my rational thinking completely! It only gets better and better at it as time goes on and it learns and strengthens the pathways. They become thick and powerful and can literally take over my brain.

Of course - there are other things I am epigentically predisposed to becoming awesome at... playing the piano for example.

Each person will have genetic factors that 'turn on' with the right exposure. From there - how fast and well the brain builds it's pathways can be individual. You will hear stories of people who pick up a drink and are just on fire for it from that moment on. Others - like me... will take a slow - very slow gradual progression. My brain just isn't as good at it - yet it still has the genetic marker to be better than most at getting me alcohol.

Some can sit down at the piano and will be on fire immediately. The minute I'm exposed and I'm turned on to it - I feel I innately know how to do this really well at a rediculously young age. Somehow I have perfect pitch.

Just like some sit down to a beer at a young age... and boom - they can drink - the tolerance is unusually high - the desire for more is instant and defies logic etc.

Of course, some don't get to a piano until they are 50.  Then the brain is older - it's harder to learn - maybe some of the potential would be squandered - but the potential is still there.  

Our brains are built for learning best at a young age - epigenetic factors and everything else.  So maybe a guy wont get exposure to a drink til he's 50.  Well... you've heard about those guys too, who didn't start until late in life.  And we've all probably heard that alcoholism is part environmental and part genetic (epi) and now you see why.  There are a so many variables - and so many human differences, environmental differences.


So depending on the epigentic factors each individual has - the style or type or quality of alcoholic can vary tremendously. My blood lines favor alcohol - that is clearly part of my evolution. Drugs - french horn - sports... well... I didn't get that marker. I can try and try and try and try and try - and I just don't have the potential. Others can try and try and try drinking - but they just don't have the potential. This is why it can be confusing when we DO have the potential, and look around and see others drinking all the time and just as much or like us - yet they just can not seem to 'get it right' like us. They just don't have that potential no matter how much they would try.



True - any human body can become addicted to physically addicting things, but when you have millions of synapses firing for a thing, vs. just a few little pewny ones... you're dealing with 2 completely different animals. Literally. One could be described as an alcoholic, and the other - a non alcoholic. Or you might say one could be called a highly developed and specialized creature for this particular thing, and the other not. Whatever you prefer. Here in AA land - people like say they are alcoholic so as to come to some sort of surrender to the fact that they are part of a different group of people. This group of epigentically different people fall on a spectrum, but we look for the similarities, not the differences. This is so we can move onto common ground, work together towards healing and understanding of ourselves, and come to grips with the fact that what we happen to be highly evolved in... can kill us - and will kill us if we don't leave it alone completely.

Best wishes.












-- Edited by justadrunk on Saturday 11th of July 2015 10:42:26 PM

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JustaDrunk, 

 yer lucky. Your brain is wired for drinking, AND playing your instument. Me, not so lucky. Only wired for drinking. I've been a guitar player all my life, and, no matter how much I practice, I still suck. Well, I guess I don't really suck, but, for the amount of time I've put into practice, I should be much better than I am. If you've ever read a book called "Outliers", from Malcom Gladwell, he talks about the 10,000 hour rule. Practice anything, no matter what it is, and after 10,000 hours, you should have it mastered. He uses the Beatles early years, playing 6-10 hour gigs, every day, in Germany, as an example.. Well, I've probably practiced more like 40,000 hours, and I still don't have it mastered. Not even close. Of course, many of those practice hours were spent while high on alcohol, and you don't retain much while drunk. Nevertheless, since I've quit drinking, I've dedicated myself to really becoming proficient on the guitar, (in all styles, country, rock, and jazz, jazz improvisation being my main goal. I don't play classical guitar). I practice between 4-6 hours every day. Sometimes 8-12 Hours. I've only been doing this for about a year now, since I got sober, and, I've made big improvement. But I still don't think my synapses or whatever they are, fire in my brain for playing music like they did for drinking alcohol. 10,000 hours? Hell, I had alcohol mastered in a fraction of that time. Or so I thought.



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I was alternating liquor stores because I was buying 1.75L of cheap rum every other day. I memorized the location of every liquor store around my house and on every possible route home from work.

I think you're ok for now but watch out for progression and/or a graduation to the hard liquor.



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Baba Louie wrote:

Well, there's 2 trains of thought about alcoholism. Some people believe it is a genetic flaw, a physical allergy. Anybody with this allergy is going to become a full-blown alkie if they drink. The other theory is that it is a "progressive" disease. If it is a progressive disease, then people who don't have a major problem with it yet are in the "early stages" of the disease. And, just like some other diseases, (such as diabetes), some people never develop the full-blown version. That doesn't mean they dont have the disease. It just means that it hasn't progressed to a life threatening situation. 

Of course, it's possible that it's genetic AND progressive. Why some people can drink "normally" all their lives, and it never becomes a serious illness, I dont know. It's probably very complicated. Probably a conglomeration of genetics, environment, and abnormal brain activity. 

But, I'm probably not telling you stuff that you don't already know. Or, I'm telling you stuff that you already know. Either way, anybody who drinks with any kid of regularity has a lot bigger shot at becoming a full-blown alcoholic. 


 Theories abound about the cause of alcoholism. Most point to genetic, environmental and psychosocial factors. I have not come across a theory which says genetics is ALL the cause for alcoholism. The "progressive" aspect of alcoholism, once that state has been reached, does not refer to some consumption pattern of normal drinkers. It refers to alcoholic behaviors.

 

Bofa Louie wrote:


We all started off as casual, normal drinkers in our early years, right? Well, I'm thinking that we were in an early stage of alcoholism. Just like anybody who drinks normally, casually, and with any regularity now.


 Hundreds of millions of drinkers started out as casual drinkers in the years since AA started. At least 90% of those never became alcoholics. It is within the range of normal healthful behavior to drink, say, one glass of wine with every  dinner, or to have, say, 3 beers during the Sunday footbal game each week. Persons who do this are not alcoholics. They are not drinking alcoholically. 

Under your theory, over half the adult population would be alcoholic. AA would have members who never get drunk once.

 



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Well, Tanin, I don't know all the statistics, but I would venture to guess that there are many more alcoholics than what the statics say. A lot of people hide it. How do the people who make these statistics get their results? Nobody ever asked me. Any body ever ask you? Did you ever take a poll? I never did. And nobody that I can think of, friends, family, whatnot, never participated in any poll. Do you have friends or family that were ever asked to fill out a poll? Wait, I just thought of something. I did have to answer that question. On a health insurance questionaire. And I was totally honest, I said I only drink about 5-6 alcoholic beverages per week. Just like I'm sure everybody is honest when they have to answer that question. When the cops pulled me over for DUI, I was honest with them, and told them I had drank about 15 beers. Just like anybody would.

maybe 50% of the population isn't alcoholic, but I bet it's way more than 10%. I said that "anybody who drinks with any sort of regularity is in some form of alcoholism, it may be early stage, low or moderate level of alcoholism". I'm sticking to that theory, Tanin. I see it all over, with friends and family. I'm not saying that every person who drinks wine with their dinner, or drinks beer watching a football game is going to become a full-blown alcoholic. But the possibility is there. Just because somebody drinks alcohol doesn't mean they're alcoholic. You're right. Just like somebody who only does heroin on the weekends isn't a heroin addict.  (is there a difference?).

btw, there are people who manage to do opiates and other drugs occasionally, just like there are people who drink occasionally. They may be able to control it now, but the possibility of it developing into a full-blown addiction is always there. Doesn't mean they aren't in the early stages of addiction.



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But I guess in the end, or today, anyway, it doesn't really matter how many alcoholics there are, or how or why they became alcoholic. What matters is that we are here, sober, today. I was just trying to explain to the OP that he/she might be in the early stages of alcoholism. Even though Erorbot said that alcohol was'nt causing any problems at this point in their life, he/she is still a regular drinker, who has a "ritual" of drinking beer almost everyday after work. Right now, Erobot's consumption levels aren't that high. But that's how it all starts. Be careful, Erorbot, like somebody else said, if you find yourself drinking more and more, and you find yourself drinking not as a "reward" for a hard days work, but for other reasons, then you're better off nipping it in the ass before it gets out of hand.

one of the problems, though, and I'm sure (well, I'm not so sure) that you'll agree with Tanin, is that we don't really realize it when we start drinking for other reasons, like to escape emotional problems, or not wanting to deal with the everyday problems life throws at us. I never knew which day exactly it was that alcohol became a crutch and an addiction, and not just a "reward" for a hard days work, or a social lubricant For some good times and fun. It kinda just happened. 



-- Edited by Baba Louie on Sunday 19th of July 2015 08:48:04 PM

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don't drink and go to meetings. try it for a month see if there are any changes in your life. fellowship is the backbone of aa

 



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34 years in aa . continueous sobriety works

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Hey baba. I've actually decreased my drinking already. In fact I started working out instead. I drink socially on the weekends with friends but that's actually all I do now.

I also feel like making this post would actually help me be able to pin point any changes. Like when you said you don't know at what point drinking became a crutch for you. This point would help me see if I am drinking any more or any less. And hopefully keep me grounded so that I don't wake up one day and not realize when I had started drinking more.

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Erobot  you will be the one that decides about alcoholism and you just as it is supposed to be.   Me...I was born and raised in this disease and couldn't even pronounce the word until I got into the Al-Anon Family group side of recovery.   I didn't know and didn't even know that I didn't know..."dumb as a stick" I later came to accept as my awareness condition.   My grandmother turned me on at the age of 9 with cultural very strong Portuguese Rose wine and the first drink I drank was an orgasm.  My mother at the same time was attempting to get her mother not to feed us children the wine and of course she failed.  I started drinking regularly 4 years later and had a drinking group I use to hang with and none of us used the word alcoholic or alcoholism even when we were stealing it, cheating it or using whatever moneys we could get to buy it from vendors who looked the other way because of our ages.  I drank every chance I could back then and didn't get drunk like  my friends did which made them wonder what was up with me.  Heading on toward my first attendance in recovery I was convinced I wasn't "like them" because I often couldn't get drunk...I could get violent and rageful and not drunk.  Moving on to 5 years alcohol free in the Family Groups I entered college for the specific reason of learning what the hell alcoholism was which has been partly said here in this post...Compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body.  (AMA definition) Ifs a 4 level disease...mind, body, spirit and emotions (I accept that explanation cause it works for me).  Why didn't I get drunk as often or like my drinking budides???? it's how I'm made up physically...I'm chemically tolerant and when I drink it hurts me in the other areas...I get pain and I get crazy and I keep drinking more to see if I will get drunk and then I reach toxic shock that point where my body is holding more alcohol  in my blood quantum and it anesthizes my sub-conscious functions...breath and heartbeat and I approach the door of death on the floor, unable to move a perfect victim to booze.  I've never done that one ounce too much...the ounce that takes a drunk out of this world though I have brothers in the program who have been resuscitated a number of times in order to  hold membership in our fellowship.   I've see people who have not made it back...its peaceful was to go from my experience.  When I started drinking I had no boundaries and I drank because I could and because it was there and I stopped when I was the only one still standing.  While I was stopping drinking my skin was a urine yellow color and a member in recovery convinced me "That's not JAUNDICE!!" as I was like to explain.  It was something else and sure enough it cleared up to a normal tan 5 years after I stopped drinking.  This disease is deep and it has quirks based upon the person.  Though we have similarities which keep us together we also have differences that shouldn't convince us that we are different.   Today I  take care of my own self and I don't add alcohol at all to me.  It is not a food source and I become unhealthy when I drink it including becoming a threat to others around me. 

I have outside proof that I have a problem with it including having the vendor tell me he no longer has a brand of wine I use to drink because I bought out h is stock the last time I was in.  Oh well evidence is evidence and I no longer get that evidence from others in my life not relatives or friends.  Did you know that beer is not a thirst quencher?  Its a mind and mood altering  chemical....Keep coming  back.   smile

 



-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 27th of July 2015 04:24:28 PM

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Well, Erbot, I ain't gonna tell you that you need to quit drinking, if you're just doing it on weekends and it's enjoyable and not causing you any grief or problems.  Just because WE are full-blown alcoholics, doesn't mean YOU are. Just be aware of your drinking, and if it starts causing you problems, and you're not drinking for enjoyment anymore, then you need to re-consider alcoholic beverages. 

One more thing: if you're gonna drink, don't drive! Not only is a DUI a pain in the ass and very costly, but drinking and driving can change your and other people's life for the worse in a split second. You hit somebody and kill them, yer going to prison. Not good. And not too good for the dead person, either. DONT DRINK AND DRIVE! 

Good luck to you.



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Thanks a lot. I've gotten a lot of help from these comments.

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