I have been having an inner conflict lately. I started noticing it about a month and a half ago at my home group meeting. It is a step study group and we were on step three. There were probably 15 people that shared that night. Most of the ones who shared prefaced their sharing by saying, "I don't consider myself a Christian" or some sort of statement that could be paraphrased as, "I pray, but I'm not really sure who or what I am praying to". A lot of the people I have meant in my short time in AA consider AA or the rooms their higher power. Most of the meetings I go to are held at churches and when I am talking to someone before or after the meeting one question I often ask is "do you go to this church", "do you go to church" or "what church do you go to" and I would conservatively estimate that less than 15% of the people I have asked one of those questions to has said that they attend any church at all. One of the main reason's I chose the sponsor I chose was because in a meeting he made the statement, "AA does not have a monopoly on God". He wrote a book that I will not give the exact title of in order to protect his anonymity but loosely titled, "A guide to Spiritual Living" and he does not identify himself as a Christian. Even two of the twelve steps refer to God as, "as you understand him". What others use as their higher power is not what I am having the issue with, but because the Bible clearly states the only way to God is through Jesus who died for our sins and many people seem to treat AA as a religion. I feel like I am a member of two separate religions. I just wondered if anyone else here is a Christian who has experienced similar feelings and how it has affected you?
-- Edited by Dirty_Red on Thursday 8th of January 2015 10:42:15 PM
Look forward to reading the responses. I go to a Christian church but am unsure if I label myself truly Christian or not. I think there is some code in the way Christians are expected to share. For example "higher power rather than Jesus or God. It is 2 separate things but closely related.I feel if someone has found a Church, temple, or mosque where they can be truly spiritual, good for them, but I also understand why we don't speak in specifics for the sake of unity. Our unity as a group is more important than people sharing specific religious beliefs. That being said, I don't trip if someone shares and talks about Jesus. Life is too short for me to get hung up on that in an AA meeting where I am blessed to just be sober.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Pink's response was enlightening about how he handles the religion question. I was born and raised in the diseases of alcoholism and conservative Christianity and things happened in that religion that I believe God and/or Jesus Christ would approve of. Ironic that in the practice the subject of mercy is talked about yet rarely practiced on a day to day basis. My early education was as a theologist in a private, conservative, christian school system. My practice from birth/dna was to serve that religion and church until I was given the permission to have a relationship with the God of my understanding and it was then that I could hear that God's voice and know it intimately. The God of my understanding has been more ancient than organized (see?) religion because the God of my understanding is more ancient than organized religion. I had to be taught to understand by listening with an open mind and then following thru on what I was hearing rather than letting anyone attempt to convince me of their own understanding like I was born and raised into. So my response comes as from a former Christian who understand more today. "If you keep an open mind...you will find help".
-- Edited by Jerry F on Friday 9th of January 2015 12:15:09 AM
I feel like I am a member of two separate religions. I just wondered if anyone else here is a Christian who has experienced similar feelings and how it has affected you?
-- Edited by Dirty_Red on Thursday 8th of January 2015 10:42:15 PM
To answer your question, yes, I do consider myself a christian ... was raised in the church and baptized by total immersion ... (in water) ... confessing I believed that Jesus was the Son of God ...
But somewhere in life, I strayed from that conviction ... and became an alcoholic along the way ... did you know Noah, of the Old Testament was an alcoholic ??? ... as was some others mentioned in the Big BB ... ... ... He, Noah, sobered up and went on to do God's Will ... Try to imagine the only people left on the planet that actually believed in God, was a family with an alcoholic dad ...
Okay, back to the main subject ... Although I believe in Christ as the Son of God, and that most churches provide a needed service to the public, I still have not returned to attending church as I once did ... I cannot seem to get my wife to actually go ... she says she will, just not yet ... I know, this is an excuse and I'm trying to start going back, with or without her, but am dealing with cancer treatments that are really making me weak right now ... but I DO have good intentions ...
Keep in mind, all religions are 'man made' ... and I have to tell you, I feel closer to God, having worked the AA twelve steps, than I ever did when going to church ... I feel more spiritual today than I ever have in my past ... the reason? ... I work steps 11 and 12 on a daily basis ...
I also have a number of books tying our AA BB directly to the teachings of the Bible ... in fact, did you know they (Dr. Bob & Bill) considered calling this movement the 'James Gang' instead of Alcoholics Anonymous due to the fact that they read portions of the Bible (most often they read from the book of James of the New Testament) during there meetings ... and I think there's a special display of that original Bible that Dr. Bob read from ... I am convinced the AA BB was indeed an inspiration from God to Bill ...
So, going to church is a good thing and shouldn't have any conflict with AA's way of life at all ... AA's 'way of life' actually mirrors the Christian way of life ... It's all good ... ... ... not separate, but as one ...
Love ya man and God Bless,
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hello and blessings of this day! Welcome to MIP....
Yes God is mentioned in the MALE form in 3 of our STEPS (3,7,11)4x..........I am a born again Christian and was reared in Catholicism before I left that "religion" in 1965 to go into the Armed Forces.. CHAPTER 4 WE AGNOSTICS is a wonderful Chapter in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous...and some thoughts on beliefs....In program I always share from the perspective of a Power greater than yourself or the God of your own understanding(even if that is no God)I am willing to share my personal Faith beliefs outside of program and it is pretty obvious after years in the rooms of folks of Christian faith(and there are many different sects of eventhe Catholic "religion" I personally do not profes a personal religion but a personal relationship with the God of my understanding. WE also remember our 2ND STEP explicitly states "that WE came to believe "THAT' a Power not "IN' a Power "COULD' (denoting the WORK we do)restore us to sanity. Through the years and even my own Sponsor turned out to be Christians ,something we were not communicating to each other before our relationships as SPONSOR,/SPONSEE occurred.It is definitely not necessary in fact allowing others to have their own beliefs in their own Power(and guidelines used are that Power is loving and caring and greater than. ourselves.Sometimes that Power could be whatever keeps you clean...WE also remember that our 3rd STEP tells us we first "make a decision" and then we turn our will and our LIVES(thats all our lives we have as parents,brothers,sisters,friends,etc to the CARE OF, (God as we understood HIM) When you look at the History you can see where the terminology came from) I didn't write the STEPS but I may have put "THE CARE OF GOD AS WE UNDERSTOOD GOD,,eliminating a gender...but anyway..........,a very important distinction....Some shun at the thought of turning themselves over to another thing or person ..I have always told my Sponsees that for us it is easy to Float back out the door on a cloud of Religious Zeal and forgetting we suffer from an incurable disease.Like stated here by others concentrate ,a day at a time of doing whatever it takes to remain in recovery based on your spiritual condition and you can work on that condition incorporating our STEPS worked with a Sponsor IN ALL AREAS OF YOU LIFE..cOMING TO BELIEVE IS SOMETIMES A MATTER OF PROGRESSION FOR SOME ,FOR OTHERS THE BELIEFS SYSTEM IS ALREADY THERE... I am a firm believer with God,,all things are possible(whatever that God is for you)after more than 25 years out on the Tiles,based on my own evidence,,,its where I go in all situations,and when Im farther removed I stumble more...Welcome to the Rest of your life a day at a time...This is my stuff...take anything you can use,,,,, Every day free of active addiction is a miracle for us,,,enjoy the Journey......
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
It's simple. It does not matter if OTHER people may "treat AA as a religion".
If YOU are not doing that, there's no reason for YOU to feel that you are "a member of two separate religions".
How others conduct their own spiritual or religious practices is nothing for you to be concerned about and has nothing to do with your own spiritual or religious practices.
How others conduct their relationship with AA is nothing for you to be concerned about and has nothing to do with your own relationship with AA.
You're allowed to feel any way you want about religion, inside or outside of AA. You're also allowed to talk about this exact subject during a meeting. A specific religion is not recognized by AA for a reason. It doesn't matter if you do or don't have a religion, it isn't a requirement for membership. You do whatever you want to do with your religion. As you mentioned, "AA does not have a monopoly on God." God is always referenced with "As you understand him" so that no one is excluded. The way you think of God is completely up to you.
Some people in AA have issues with organized religion. I used to be one of them. Over the years I've learned that how I understand God is nobodies business just like their understanding is none of my business. I personally think that anything that helps you stay sober is exactly what you need. If that means church, so be it. Don't let anyone convince your otherwise.
That's the one of the most beautiful aspects if alcoholics anonymous D.R., that every person is welcome regardless of who or what their god or higher power might be. If you feel that you are somehow being blasphemous by associating with non-christians that's too bad. Is everyone Christian at your workplace? How about the grocery store you shop at? Are all of you're family practicing Christians? If not do you love or care for them any less? If I remember correctly Jesus himself didn't choose to spend his time with only belivers. Be like him.
I am a Christian. I believe that each person has the right to believe what he/she wants to believe. It is none of my business and in and out of the rooms I respect that. If someone doesn't respect my right to choose what is best for me, it is not my problem.
