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Anyone ever experience this?
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When I was getting through the steps and got well my sponsor burned me bad.

i mean I fell hard, was fed to the dogs, took years off my life.

basically she wanted a boyfriend but wasnt getting one so she gave me bad advice then watched me suffer horrendously from doing what she said Which made her feel so good she got a boyfriend instantly. Then kept harming and harming me in many subtle ways and depleting me of self esteem, then finally distanced herself from me. Over the past 5 y she has gossiped about me to deflect from it and helped anyone else who doesn't want me to grow, shun me etc.

She was 33 or so and I was 44 or so, I didn't have time to play games I was dying.

i worked with her for 2.5 years it was the first person I ever trusted

my parents are covert narcissists so this re triggered trauma and rejection and trust issues for me

she has known how hurt and alone and suffering I been but wouldn't get honest. So finally the other day I emailed her and said I was gonna expose it. She emailed me back and said we could talk on the phone. 

All she did was make excuses, claim self pity and manipulate me more. Sadly, I heard myself abandon myself and buy into it all.

of course I been miserable again the last few days so I emailed her again angry. I said I am just going to speak up about in meetings, I've had it.

i never spoke up for myself my whole life and when I was getting well I was just starting to do that. Then all the abuse started and I got sick again. Not sure what to do at this point.

part of me says Be a saint and let it go. Obviously she's immature. 

The other part of me says You gotta speak up for yourself or you'll never have the self esteem to live another year in this world. Start somewhere.

open to any and all advice. Whatever comes to mind.

thanks



-- Edited by MakingWaves on Thursday 11th of December 2014 10:41:26 AM

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We really need to be careful about WHY we pick who we pick to be our sponsor in A.A.  Some would say "it's just the luck of the draw", but if we carefully observe our potential candidate for sponsorship over a period of time, I think we'll see a real picture of the person as they really are.  Long ago, my choice for a sponsor was a man who I knew would lead me through the Steps, because I could see that he had clearly worked the Steps himself.  In fact, I asked him outright..."Have you worked the Steps?"  I wasn't wanting anyone to hold my hand, or be my BFF, or bring the cake to my pity-parties.  The next time you choose a sponsor, I'd honestly question yourself as to WHY you're choosing that person.  You might be shocked by the answer, if you are honest with yourself.  That's my take....for what it's worth....



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She really knew the steps and had done them.
But looking back there was a huge red flag about her obsession with sex & getting a boyfriend, yes.
I saw this during my 4th step and I didn't get out of her way.

Since I posted this earlier today I have decided to let her go.

This is when I get out of her way.

It's sad that these things happen in AA but as long as I never do it to a Sponsee myself I'll be ok

Thanks for your input Mike

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MakingWaves wrote:

She really knew the steps and had done them.


 I'm sorry this happened to you, MV.

Just because someone knows about the steps doesn't make them a good sponsor.

Just because someone has taken the steps doesn't make them a good sponsor.

Choosing a sponsor and working with a sponsor is a crucial aspect of AA for most (not all) members. It can be tough to make a sponsor selection.

Maybe you can take a look at the AA pamphlet on sponsorship. We have discussed it here before:

Sponsorship Pamphlet

http://aa.activeboard.com/t50146639/sponsorship-pamphlet/

It's better to make an informed decision. The pamphlet will help greatly.

 



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I'm familiar with the pamphlet. I allowed God to bring me this sponsor we don't choose em. I prayed and asked and she was the right one. But sometimes things change and we have to change with them, and that's my lesson here

I find that people can die yes but if we are willing we will be brought what we need
Also everything is there to show us something
I tend to leave claw marks on people when I let them go :)

Thanks for your response Tanin



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I feel bad that you had this negative experience with sponsorship.  It was totally wrong and should never happen to anyone.  It should be said that, just because a sponsor professes to have worked the Steps, that doesn't mean they actually did.  You can tell by their actions....not by the BS that comes out of their mouths in meetings.  As I said before, it pays to take a long look at a person and observe how they act inside, and outside of A.A.  A person who has had a spiritual awakening is not obsessed with sex and other childish, immature things.  Again, I'm sorry that someone failed you in A.A.  It happens more often than we'd like to admit.  All I can say is be observant, be careful, and choose wisely.  Have you done an inventory on this?



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Thanks for understanding Mike

I agree that good sponsors are not always the best speakers and it's their actions that count

I have done an inventory on it yes. I just did a little bit tonight and saw how high my expectations of her are and going to empty wells again demanding she apologize, lol.
I have to remember the HP gives me what I need, not others, and then I can give it to myself
I also saw I will not care so much when I'm a little better to myself.

Yes it is hurtful but I also believe nothing happens by mistake.

Also she did help me so much. I am grateful for that

What I don't like is when people help, then hurt later

But again it really is unreasonable expectations, we all have this disease
Some of us just need to protect ourselves and know when to move on.



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Yes...I really do understand where you're coming from.  You've clearly been hurt by someone you thought you could trust.  Even though I haven't actually experienced it for myself, I have seen a few folks who have felt very disillusioned by the failures and weaknesses of those in our A.A. membership whom they trusted to a high degree.  I guess that means it's a spiritual Program that is made up of faulty human beings.  My sincere apologies if I came off as harsh, or insensitive in my earlier response.  I certainly didn't mean to.

Blessings always, Mike D.



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MakingWaves wrote:

Yes it is hurtful but I also believe nothing happens by mistake.

Also she did help me so much. I am grateful for that

What I don't like is when people help, then hurt later

But again it really is unreasonable expectations, we all have this disease
Some of us just need to protect ourselves and know when to move on.


 One possible option is to go without a sponsor. There's no requirement to have one.

At one time I went without a sponsor for a few years. It wasn't great. But it wasn't bad, either. 

Can't get hurt by a sponsor if there isn't one. About 1 in 5 AA members don't have a sponsor. So, it's not unusual.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide, MV.

 



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Thank you Mike no worries

Tanin I am making God my sponsor now
I been around long enough so...thanks

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Thanks Makingwaves

Sadly, your experience is all too common, but at least you seem to have come through it okay, which is good.

When AA first started, sponsorship was what we refer to you today as 12-step work.

This meant that a sponsor would visit someone in a hospital/detox, take them to a meeting, spend time with them and take them to meetings over a 2/3 week period and generally be a sort of buddy to them.

The sponsor would explain how AA worked, how the literature worked, what the steps were and generally help them in early sobriety. After a few weeks, the sponsor would back away making it clear to the individual that the journey was theirs, that the recovery process was the 12 steps as laid out in the big book and it was theirs to do as they chose or not.

As time has gone on , sponsorship has evolved into what it is today, which is for the most part ,IMO, a fairly dysfunctional relationship a lot of the time.

In any sort of therapeutic type relationship, where there is a power imbalance then there is scope for varying levels of abuse.
This is true of therapy, spiritual direction etc and sponsorship is no different.

Many people forget that the big book was written in order that alcoholics could get sober and stay sober without needing to have recourse or reference to other AA members who were sober at the time.

When an individual uses the big book as the basis for their recovery, they are tapping into the whole experience of AA since it started, and are able to use that as the core of their own recovery journey. If they rely on another individual to 'lead them' through the steps, even using the big book, they are effectively relying on that individual to show them what to do, rather than having to trust themselves with what the AA literature means to them think chinese whispers

Having a sponsor can be a great benefit in early recovery especially, but it always has to be a real choice, not an obligation, with the proviso that you should always trust yourself that you feel the person is on your side if not find someone who is.
They should essentially be a witness to the AA program working in their lives that you can use as an example (for better or worse) until you have your own experience that you can rely on.

Good luck

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You sound an awful lot like a former member we had here that would post frequently about how other people hurt and slandered her. That member also had an undying resentment against her parents who were paying her rent but she blamed them for everything wrong in her life. She would alternate between these angry victim posts and then saying she "let it go" but obviously she never did let the stuff go. She also frequently claimed God was her sponsor and she wasn't striving for 'self-esteem" but "God-esteem" all these were smoke screen for not taking an honest look at herself and changing.

I don't know if this is the same person, BUT, my suggestion would be the same: This is an inside job. The world is not full of people trying to hurt you and, even if it was, how much you remain hurt and focused on it is on you. If you focus on the negativity in people, you will see the worst side of humanity and you will completely miss God's greatest creations: Human beings and Love.

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Recoveryrehab
I think the big book was written abt 5 years after AA started it wasn't there in the beginning
Bill did his steps with his sponsor, it's talked about in that book.




Pinkchip
It sounds like your assuming I am someone other than me? I don't know who you are or what your problem is? but it sounds paranoiad
Do you have a resentment against this former member or something? What did she do to you?
Your post was very unkind and drive home the point that there are some pretty nasty people in AA.

Your name Pinkchip sounds like a woman (prays), Surely no man would talk like that to a lady!

How long you been sober!

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And maybe you should try changing yourself!!!!!

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I have questions about this statement:

"she wanted a boyfriend but wasn't getting one so she gave me bad advice then watched me suffer horrendously from doing what she said Which made her feel so good she got a boyfriend instantly."

You are saying your sponsor got a boyfriend by intentionally harming someone and then gaining sadistic pleasure from watching them suffer.

Huh? None of that makes sense to me.



-- Edited by davep12and12 on Tuesday 16th of December 2014 06:30:39 PM

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It's a problem I've seen over and over again; pointing fingers behind you when we make bad choices. I was lucky, I had one sponsor, I picked her because I knew she was hard ass and wouldn't put up with my games, and I wanted a healthy sobriety, not just a white knuckled one, more than I wanted anything else. I bounced in and out of AA for at least four years before I found her. She stayed my sponsor for well over twenty years. When she died, I never could replace her, I knew it and I didn't try. I still "hear" her to this day when I'm working through something. It would be like losing my husband and grabbing another man to fill the void. I just can't do it, not yet anyway. But I have some good friends here, some good friends in my physical world, and if I don't know what to do when I'm hurting by now, well, then I usually learn another butt kicking lesson. But I stay sober.

MW, PC is a moderator here. There is a strong suspicion that you may be here under a new name, and your posts are verifying that. Please have respect for the moderators if you wish to remain here.

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I don't idolize anyone but God.
Sorry you didn't get that after being "sober" three times as long as me.

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Later.

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????? I had to squint to read that. What is it for? Maybe I'm slow today. Ok, slower than I am other days.

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Probably an attempt to post a snarky meme that went wrong.

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Ohhhhhh. Okay, I get it now. Project Gutenberg doesn't allow their stuff to be used. Duh. Grey moment(s). I think I'm overly tired.

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The problem with being an "online moderator" (lol! what status!!!) is when you get to a REAL meeting you have NO CONTROL whatsoever. You're just another bozo in the bus.

Living two lives: No wonder you're slippin and slidin!

Don't worry. Lots of peeps in AA get married before they're ready. That doesn't work either.
haha :):)




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K. Thanks.

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Sometimes, a sponsee has come to me with a problem or question, seeking my input/advice/sympathy, but instead of clearly telling the whole story, they have carefully crafted the question in an attempt to manipulate the situation and control how I perceived the issue, in order to try to get the reaction or response that they desire.

For example, a sponsee telling me that they got in an argument with their parents because their parents were "not respecting my boundaries". When I finally got the specifics, it turned out that the parents had told the sponsee that there were certain rules that must be followed if the sponsee wanted to live in the house, including the rule that no overnight guests are allowed, and the sponsee was sneaking people into the house to spend the night, and trying to imply that the parents shouldn't have any say in what happened in their house just because it was in the sponsee's room.

Another example was when a sponsee complained that their dad was 'messing with my serenity' and 'interfering with my attempts to clean up the wreckage of my past'. Again, the specifics told a different story. The sponsee owed money to his dad, and his dad was demanding that he be paid, now that the sponsee was working again. The sponsee was using the money from his new job to pay off some credit card debt instead. Paying credit card debt is not a bad thing, but the way the story was presented was simply not honest.

And comments about 'my sponsor got a boyfriend by giving me bad advice and feeling good about me suffering' send up that exact same red flag. I recognize this stuff because my head sometimes has the same desire to manipulate the way others perceive me and my situations by carefully selecting what parts of the truth they do or do not get from me, in an attempt to get them to make the decisions or offer the advice that I want. And left to my own devices, running my actions based on my own ego-driven alcoholic self-will, I'm likely to go ahead and indulge the desire to engage in this behavior. But by applying the principles of the 12 steps to my daily life and my daily behavior, I've been able to avoid doing that pretty consistently, which makes my life a whole lot easier and makes my sobriety a whole lot more comfortable.



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Agree Dave. I wish I'd opted for your response which was more thoughtful...though I suspect you'll end up getting flamed too.

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The interesting thing about having really dysfunctional sponsorship relationships - is both people get to work on exactly what they need to work on, since most everything we see in people is a reflection of our own insides, and everything we say to people - is stuff we ourselves need to hear :) The best part about these dysfunctional partnerships is the closure from old hurts we are seeking, usually comes up immediately - and if we stay focused on ourselves, and our part, we get some real healing, despite how the thing might look on the outside.


Black and white thinking which would tell me to either have a sponsor Always, or Never again - is something that might be sitting on the table - and you might just be prepared now to examine it.

Possibly this whole hubabaloo is just about lightening up and getting more centered and balanced... healthy thinking doesn't swing too far left or right. In my experience (from the little bit of healthy thinking I've gotten to experience thus far lol) healthy thinking is usually fairly detached from the tangled up mess of circumstances or emotions, and is usually set back from the outside - a step back, or a step out sort of.

Sometimes in these types of relationships, I get to practice drawing myself back/out with simple slogans such as 'how important is it'. Or 'how much will this matter in a week, a month, a year, a decade'. Sometimes I can take it way out and imagine the grand scheme of life from the starting point to the end... and remember that I just really don't know a whole lot - respectively.

I'm just a human with a whole mess of complicated experiences to sort out - like everyone else. At most - the crappy sponsorship relationships I've been in/under that reeked and dripped of control and an addiction to excitement and fear, were nothing more than experiences which prepared me to look at my own deep seated need to people please and seek external validation and affirmation, instead of simply doing good, feeling good, and leaving the results of it all up to a HP I can't possibly fathom.


One thing that stood out in one of your posts - MW - was how you were going to let it go --- and look to your understanding of a God to work it out - keep things as needed.  From this I gather you have no interest in being in charge of how people need to be anymore. That should take a huge weight off your shoulders and free up lots of time to focus on all the things that bothered you about said sponsor, which clearly only bother you because you recognize it all in yourself... and haven't truly accepted all of you, good... not so good and everything in between.  All this crap we do to survive life isn't something someone else hasn't tried.  And learned from.  And healed from.  And felt grateful for one day because of it.

 



I like to take a moment of silence for those who still suffer - including me - because there is a lot I haven't forgiven myself for, that really irks me when it's brought to my attention cuz other humans are suffering with these same character defects as me... and when I can't forgive myself and get all hot and pickled or 'triggered' on other peoples issues - it's only cuz I have issues myself yet.  Cuz really... the truth is... nothing anyone ever does has anything to do with me.  My part is - I make it about me.  Or at me.



I find that once I completely accept myself, and accept the way my HP has needed/needs me to be - other people's bla bla bla doesn't really even interest me let alone pucker me up.


So sweat heart - I think everything's going to be okay here - you sound like you're off to a really great start to this day. Willing to make a lot of mistakes and do things badly like me - I mean seriously - what more could we ever hope for but the freedom and the chance to go out and learn from these things? It's a gift and an honor - another glorious day just as it needs to be.

I appreciate you being here and sharing the journey. xoxoxxo



-- Edited by justadrunk on Monday 15th of December 2014 10:34:40 PM

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I particularly like Dave's post ... ... ...



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Well here I am again. I wrote another inventory with a new sponsor who's lovely! I know how to see my part and all it was was not letting go when I knew what I saw with this person. What came out was "It's better to be alone than with the wrong person." The other thing my new sponsor keeps pointing out to me is that the reason I'm putting up with so much abuse from people in and out of AA (not all members) is that because if my trauma history I am not speaking up with love. So without telling me what to do, my sponsor has gently talked to me about possible ways to do this. I am praying and working towards wellness by finding my voice. Because my last sponsor has been engaging with another member in behind the scenes damage of my reputation which has gotten so large, and because I trusted my sponsor for so long and she betrayed me and is still causing me damage, I will have to confront it openly at a meeting, in the right way. I did not do all the work I've done to die from stuffing feelings with other addictions, getting cancer or having a heart attack, just because I won't speak up. It's gone on for too long and too many people are becoming fearful in the rooms, trust issues everywhere because of a few people's selfishness. It rests on my shoulders to address it in the right way, quietly and calmly and GENERALLY in a meeting. I have also made the decision to sort of move in from AA and expand into other spiritual groups.

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