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Back again
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So here I am again.

 

I don't want to be here. I really don't. I thought that after getting my life in order and my head right all would be good.

 

I made over 100K last year and paid cash for a 30K car. I can't have that big a problem if I can do that, right?

 

Except that at 11:00 am here I can't drive it. I'm drunk... again.

 

And that lovely girl at work who flirts with me will never be asked out because I don't ever want her to see who I really am.

 

I don't really know what I'm asking for here. I left because I did something really bad, but it was a bad thing that needed to be done, and it fucked up every bit of serenity and karma I had. And then the bottle started making sense again.

 

I really don't know what I'm trying to say here. I'm pretty lost right now. All I know is that the better my outside world gets the worse my inside seems to be. I feel that I can't go back to my group - the doors are too small and I'd have to say why I left. I can't do that. That's something to take to the grave.

 

Anyway... ramble, huh. Missed you guys. Missed my pal Justa who always showed me the rainbow instead of the rain.

 

I don't know if I'll be back. Maybe I'll be here 24/7 or maybe I'll never visit again. I don't know. I really don't. All I know is that I'm hurting and that my sober days surrounded by strangers who loved me, and wanted the best for me were the best days I ever had.

 

 



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Just so you know, the Frodo and a bit is because I lost / forgot my password here.

Dunno why 'and a bit' seemed like a plan, but then again I'm not sure why anything I do makes sense these days

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Welcome back. Mebbe try to keep it simple.

 



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Hey Frodo, ... missed ya man ... $$$ don't mean shit in this dilemma we find ourselves in ... Why??? ... we have a disease of the mind, the 'spirit' if you will ... and until such time that we identify that problem and admit it, there is no hope ... no amount of wealth will spare us from needing a recovery program ... of some type at least ... this disease respects no one person, not wealth, not color, not heritage, not the religious, not the powerful, not the 'good' people of the world, no one ...

I have been through 4 rehabs ... in one they required us to go through the years and add up exactly what alcohol had cost us ... my secret paper had in excess of $500,000 ... I drank another 12 years, go fig'r ... this frick'n disease will rob us of a small fortune, not to mention stealing our very souls ... I became 'spiritually bankrupt' not to mention financially broke ... had it not been for the support and forgiving nature of my wife, I'd have been dead a few years ago ...

Our story here is not new to you ... our program and methods are things you know all too well ...

ONLY you can make the decision to get well, cause it don't 'just happen' ...

We're here to help others by sharing our stories on what DID work for us ... you'd be wise to listen, or get your misery refunded x10 ...


Love ya man and God Bless,
Pappy



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Thanks Paps.

I'm a better man than this disease lets me be. I know that. I've seen that. Time to prove it again, I reckon.

I haven't cried in a long time, but I did posting and did again reading your reply. I need my friends and HP to get me right. I suffered the sin of pride and boy did that bite me. A man is not an island, and what does it profit him to win the world but lose his soul?

I look at all the material things I have, feel proud and better than the man next door, and then drink myself stupid.

I really miss you guys, and I miss more than anything the feeling I am one with the universe. Feeling that was a high that beat any other.

Be well, Pappy. Be well all of you. I'm sorry for the silence... but.. y'know... it's hard to tell people you love that you fucked up (again).

I think I'll be back. I think being in the centre is better than hanging around the edges.

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Hey man, ... you know we tend to love those here unconditionally until they learn to love themselves again ... you are no different ... I think most of us are good decent people down deep ... but alcohol turned us into something far worse than we would have been otherwise ... it's the only disease known that keeps telling the host that they're okay ... that next time it'll be different ... it never is ...



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Wallowing at a low point of insanity I needed to hear some sane words.

I want to be the man my dog thinks I am.

I was there not that long ago. Hopefully I will be there again.

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Frodo and a bit wrote:

Thanks Paps.

I'm a better man than this disease lets me be. I know that. I've seen that. Time to prove it again, I reckon.

I haven't cried in a long time, but I did posting and did again reading your reply. I need my friends and HP to get me right. I suffered the sin of pride and boy did that bite me. A man is not an island, and what does it profit him to win the world but lose his soul?

I look at all the material things I have, feel proud and better than the man next door, and then drink myself stupid.

I really miss you guys, and I miss more than anything the feeling I am one with the universe. Feeling that was a high that beat any other.

Be well, Pappy. Be well all of you. I'm sorry for the silence... but.. y'know... it's hard to tell people you love that you fucked up (again).

I think I'll be back. I think being in the centre is better than hanging around the edges.


 Wanted to add ... you're not the only one that's 'cried a river' here ... it means the good Frodo is trying to give you a 'wake-up' call, that's all ... and about that 'pride' thingy, you don't have the corner market there either ... I was eat up with it ... thought I was better than everybody to ... had all the expensive toys they didn't ... I was movin' on up ... 

Bought my kids way more than I should have ... had the only house in the neighborhood to put in an 'in-ground' pool ... and the list goes on ... 

Bought a new 4,000 sq. ft. house w/pool and built a 3 car garage myself ...  then pride (and the alcohol) caused me to quit a 100K+ job in '92 and start my own business that lasted 3 years and cost me my entire retirement fund ... and with my pal alcohol, I didn't care ... as long as my friend (alcohol) was still with me ... 

You're right. Pride will rob you of a lot more than all your material things, it'll rob you of your very soul ... 



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Frodo and a bit wrote:

Wallowing at a low point of insanity I needed to hear some sane words.

I want to be the man my dog thinks I am.

I was there not that long ago. Hopefully I will be there again.


 Oh wow, my dog is asleep next to my leg here on the couch right now ... she thinks I walk on water ... LOL

So there's a lot to be said for the respect a dog has for it's owner ... and, I too, would be a better man if I lived up to my dog's expectations ... 

There's noth'n hold'n you back from becoming that man again except for one thing, you ... get back on board and let us carry you for a while until you get your 'sea legs' back ... we'll be here ... 



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Thanks, my friend.

Geez, I'm crying again. 3 times in a day.

I remember the first time I walked in the rooms and heard someone speak, and thinking: 'this is my house. I am home'

Everything you said was everything I know, I think I just needed to hear it from another rather then my brain that likes to lie to me.

Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

And I miss being at one with creation. That was gold.

For that one fleeting moment I knew I was immortal because I was star dust that would be reused again and again in this amazing universe.

Got back drinking and now I feel like I'm just meat with a life span of a fly

I turned my back on a lot of goodness, Don't know why.

I remember really early on someone saying in AA that I could go out if I wanted, but what I had learned would ruin my drinking. They forgot to say that my soul would cry too.

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Welcome Back Frodo. Whatever it is that you did that is eating at your soul...I guarantee someone else in AA has done it. Besides, you don't owe anyone the details. Maybe your sponsor one day if you have that kind of trust. You can do this. Get back on the beam.

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Hey Frodo, ... The fact that you have broken down a few times emotionally shows me that you DO have the capacity to love life and , in fact, miss that feeling of being one with nature (God) ... it IS an awesome feeling ... the key here, in my book, is the simple 'capacity' to love, period ... I had lost that capacity when the alcohol took over ... I started hating everything and even hated myself ... Our AA program showed me how to change all that ... and will show you too ...

Of course you'll feel like you can never go back to your old group, but I've seen it hundreds of times, a person comes back, the group is elated that they made it back, and welcomes them without judgement ... hugs followed ... (of course there may be some rookies that are judgmental, but they don't count, LOL) ... most are just glad to see you back and are glad you ain't dead yet ... even here on this board we've witnessed those who didn't make it back and are now pushing up daisies ...

And you're right ... coming to AA and learning there IS a way out of the alcohol trap, will certainly ruin any 'enjoyment' one has left in having a few drinks ... cause in doing so (drink'n) we are saying yes to death, emotionally 1st, then physical, and we say no to the love and friendship of others and God ...

 

Hope this helps,

Pappy



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Thanks Paps and Pink. Yeah, I know all that stuff. And I know what I need to do. I know it works. I've seen the MIP. I just need to hear it from a sane person.

I just feel so dirty. I lied and lied and lied to all my group members about why I stopped going to meetings. 'Shifts are crazy... I'm doing fine... Drinking? Nah, just busy', and I stopped returning calls to them rather than lie again. And in a small town I know that at least one of them must have seen me pull up at the bottle shop and buy beer. And these people that loved me and only wanted the best for me, but I pissed on that love so I could get drunk again in peace.

That's the hard bit. Small town, burnt my group etc. It's why I knew I could come back here. I never lied here. I know I got ratty in the last weeks before I fell apart, but it was an honest ratty. If I had of lied to the people here I'd have never returned. Heh, nothing like dying for a bit of pride no-one but you cares about, eh?

I know that I can't face my group right now. But I've been thinking about things over the last 24 hours and I think that what I need to do is find a group 100 or so kms away, where my brothers and sisters are people I haven't burned, and say what I need to say so that when I walk into my homegroup I have already said the hard things, and I can say what I have to say without wanting to run away.

It's not their judgement I fear. It's my own shame that holds me back. I'm a harsher judge on myself than anyone has ever been on me.

I really don't know how I got here. 2 years ago I was zen. I mean that I was floating through life. It was all beautiful. People that knew me all my life remarked on how calm and happy I was. Then a sitution came up that needed the old me to deal with it, and so I did. But I also smashed the mirror in doing it. I was lost 10 seconds later and drinking a month after it. And then I was the old me once again forever. I don't like the old me, and I'm not alone there, but the old me has a powerful pull over me when I drink.

Forgive the babble. I have a million and one thoughts bouncing inside my skull. I think I'll do this for a while until I am sane again. The day I can hear Amazing Grace again and smile rather than cringe will be the day I know the traffic jam in my mind has cleared, and that I am zen again.




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Pg 85 of The Big Book " We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition."

http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_85.htm


All the best.

Bob R



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Hey Frodo, ... you seem quite the intelligent chap so I have to say, ... that to get to that Zen state of the past, as you call it, you must have worked the steps, right??? ... So ... if you did go through that 'psychic change' referred to in the 'Dr's Opinion', why go back to your old self in order to deal with a particular situation ??? ...

I know it's none of my business, and you need not answer my query ... but it's been my experience that our program has given me all the necessary tools to deal with any situation in life that may occur ... I was just wondering what was missing that would cause a person to feel they had to revert to their old selves again in order to solve a problem ... again, I'm just wondering out loud, no need to answer this ...



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Frodo - yes, they know you went out. But you went to enough meetings to know how you and others acted when people came back. We (at least speaking for myself) are concerned and scared for our own who are relapsing and when I see them back in the rooms, I just breathe a huge sigh of relief. Even for folks that pick up a new white chip ever week, I am ultimately happy they are there because that one sober day or those few that they had with the help of AA might have kept them from killing themselves, having a horrible drunk accident....

All of us also know that this disease whispers into our ears and turns us into liars and excuse makers. Of course we forgive you that because it has and does to the same thing to us. I still go to meetings at 6 plus years sober, but there have been times I have slacked off (there but for the grace of God go I). What are the reasons I give when people ask where I've been? The same ones you stated. I learned to not let the concerned looks or comments about me affect me negatively because I know the culture of AA is to huddle close so we don't lose one of our own (like a pack - not a cult lol). I also know in the end, it's MY PROGRAM and MY LIFE. So while my peers in AA can save my butt and have before, they don't dictate my happiness and if I forgive myself and believe my HP has my back - What anyone else thinks - They can suck it.

I also am probably more successful and such than most people in the meetings I attend. Some folks may talk about that too...they can suck on that as well if they want. I don't know why I was able to complete 2 masters degrees and maintain a job while becoming a horrible alcoholic but the result was that I didn't start from zero in the areas of education and career (though I did in others). I'm pretty sure 99 percent of them don't care about how much money I make or what car I roll up to meetings in anyhow. I make my choices and they make theirs. Sometimes I see newcomers huddled really tight in cliques and I miss that. Those super close relationships in early AA when I didn't have a lot were pretty meaningful. Money, marriage, promotions...cool - not the main ingredients for happiness, serenity, or sobriety.

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I'm one of those too that makes a sixer income. I had a great job, house family cars kids....had it all but nothing was enough. Spiritual malady my friend. Don't let your ego drive you away from meetings. Too many people don't return because they cannot swallow pride. I can guarantee nobody will look down on you or think any less of you. As a matter of fact what others think of you is not even any of your business. The best advice, the most inspiration I have ever had in AA didn't come from people who had great carrers. They were from people I once looked down on. People who sleep in cars, people who were homeless. If they can stay sober and be grateful and I cant, then what does that say about me? Get you ass back to the meetings and you will appreciate even more in your own words " the best days I ever had". They will have no judgement, nor should you. Ask for help, get a sponsor and get to work.



-- Edited by Ironman on Sunday 30th of November 2014 06:02:44 PM



-- Edited by Ironman on Sunday 30th of November 2014 06:04:02 PM

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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Frodo)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))





Guess what? I love you.


Guess what else... you have been an inspiration to me - and I have never stopped sending you good vibes (prayers?).

I forgot when I came back after relapse, that just because I had given up... didn't mean everyone else did... or a higher power.


And you know... if your dog, or anyone you love - was an alchie - and had a relapse... you know you'd wish they'd just go back to the solution available and get over it.

When we're brave enough to say good bye... the door is open for a new hello.

Saying good bye to pride is an asset. Everyone there (and here) will agree. And we know you have it in you. I know you. I believe in you. I knew you'd be back. I was worried I'd be waiting much longer... so I am happy today :) Welcome home sweat heart.

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Thanks to all.. Pink, Bob, Pap, Ironman, and my rock Tash,

Lotta wisdom here, but that is what I always loved about here and the rooms. Wisdom. I can know all the tools but unless I am wise enough to use them... well...

It's so weird... bizarre... how one day you seem to have it worked out and you smile as life throws crap at you, the next you get hit with something that you can't deal with by saying 'serenity now' so you go back to what you knew, and the third day you are that old me. Drinking and with a head full of wasps.

It ain't the drinking that hurts me. It ain't cost. It ain't the feeling crap every morning. I could live with all that (albeit briefly).

It's the head. The remorse, the shame, the anger, the confusion, the arrogance, the sadness, the fear etc

For a couple or years i didn't have that in my head.


Miss that. Know what I have to do to don't have that head. And I do need to hear the wisdom. Even if it seems I'm not, I am.

And I have noticed that since I posted here I've felt a little calming of the mind. Baby steps... but better that no steps at all.



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Ya know?, ... it never ceases to amaze me of the number of us that seems they must go back out and experiment a while ... I did ... it seems we learn a great deal of wisdom while we stay active in the program, but invariably, we seem to think AA gives us the wisdom to control our drink'n ... and noth'n could be further from the truth ...

Several times I convinced myself, I got this, NOW it will be different ... and for a few days I would be okay ... then King Alcohol convinced me that this was noth'n but pure torture and that I could have a few more ... then I'd wake up a few days later wondering 'WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?' ... time to look for a new job, try to figure out what I did during my blackout, try to make amends to my wife ... again ... ETC. ... ... ...

I do have to say that returning to one's AA group to get a new 'beginner's chip is one of the more 'humbling experiences' in life ... ... ... every time I did, I was welcomed with open arms ... they went way beyond the call of duty to help me ... and were it not for going through all that, I wouldn't be here today, I wouldn't be anywhere except for 6' under ... of, that I am certain ...

Every time it required of me, more work, ... a re-commitment to the only thing I was convinced of that would save my life ... finally I stayed long enough for the miracle to happen ... one day, BAM ... I knew I was home ... and that I would be trying to help other alkies to 'recover', for the rest of my life ... It CAN be heart-breaking, BUT, it can also bring the greatest joy in life to know you just may have saved someone else's life, not to mention relieving the Hell they were giving friends and families around them ... it just don't get any better than that!!! ...

Boy, I'm glad you came back Frodo, ... please let us be a part of your new journey ...


God Bless,
Pappy



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Welcome back,,glad you made it ,,many of my posse didn't..WE all are newcomers to each day,,,,Begin the journey again,,application of the Program,worked with a sponsor,is the goal not just abstinence..In support and prayer...smile



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Frodo welcome back. I can tell you I've been were you been a long time ago and went back out after 5yrs of sobriety. It took me 25yrs to get back to these halls. About 6 months ago I went back out after 1.5 yrs sober. Fortunately I new from past experience what my mind was going to try to do to me. So I vowed I would not feel bad cause I drank cause after all we are drunks it's what we do. I didn't care what people thought coming back cause it's none of their business and it's none of mine. I made a commitment with my attitude that I wasn't going to feel bad, worthless or a failure cause I'm not. I'm just a drunk trying to do the best he can one day at a time. I'm not saying get over it cause we don't. We move past it and that's what I did. Lived in the solution not the problem. The past I couldn't change and I don't have to live and wallow in it suffering. Today I can learn from it and move on. Someday this experience will benefit others. Because at some point you'll have someone like a sponsee that goes back out and you can share your story of how you perservered and overcame this current temporary bump in the road. Share your experience strength and hope. It's not the end of the world things will work out way better than you could have expected. Just don't drink and forgive yourself and what you had. You still have it today if u don't drink nothing else has really changed except u drank. It's all in your attitude and your letting fear based emotions get the better of you. Give yourself a break and give yourself a pass. You to deserve to be happy just like anyone else. I see a lot of myself in you I'm very analytical and it serves me well sometimes but not at the expense of my sanity. Surrender accept it and move on. Learn from it and don't repeat it. The past is our greatest asset in gaining wisdom on doing the next right thing. I love you brother. Welcome back and make it a great day for that's all we are garanteed just today.

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((((Frodo)))) Welcome home brother....and thanks for bringing back the experience with the mushy feelings.  I am grateful cause I hang around with relapsers cause they mentor me during times when the compulsion buzzes around my head and arms and hands and shoulders and feet and the whole rest of me...I've never lost the compulsion and haven't drank again yet and for that I'm grateful for the relapsers I hang with.   I know from listening to them that without an exception all of them take their sobriety out with them and come back into the rooms still knowing but frightened and ego bruised.  One of my home group members who I have know for 16 years just got his "new" 1 year chip and I was the grateful member who gave it to him.  Every time he tripped he came back with lessons and I sit with him and listen and with the other relapsers who are in our home group they let me ask them, "Okay what was the first thought you had before you ended up not being able to think at all" and all of them generally say they thought they could "risk it".  Shit that's me Frodo...I'm a risk taker and my compulsion tells me "you know you can do this" while my family tells me "YOU'RE NOT AN ALCOHOLIC"!!!  course they don't want me to be one cause it makes them uncomfortable...a couple enough to come into the program too.  I think by reading this post of yours for me that hearing my former sponsor teach me the difference twix "I can't and I won't" was gold.  I use to wail "I can't do this"!!  (parts of the program) and he would tell me "It isn't that you can't...it's that you won't"...thank God for him and I'm grateful you came home to say hello...go face to face with the brothers and sisters who love you at your home group Fro...as soon as you can...In support.   smile



-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 3rd of December 2014 06:27:38 PM

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Hey Frodo,

Love and support man.  I'm glad you're able to write on here with us who understand what you're going through.  That incomprehensable demoralization.  It can only get better from here if you allow it too.

Your situation reminds me of:

pg. 25 BB

If you are as seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe there is no middle-of-the-road solution. We were in a position where life was becoming impossible, and if we had passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives: One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could; and the other, to accept spiritual help. 



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OK. I'm about to hit 5 days of 12 hour shifts in a row. With travel time we're looking at 14 and a bit hours a day. I don't drink on those shifts. Not saying I don't want to, but I just can't. I'd either get sacked or drive into a tree. It's the days off that kill me. But... this weekend I'll be drving south to see my kids, and I won't drink around them either - once again not that I don't want to, but again because I can't.

So Monday is the day. I'll be 8 days dry by then, but I understand I won't be 8 days sober. Inc the last 2 days of long driving.

No AA for a week because I can't get up at 4am, get home after 7pm. drive 100kms to a meet, drive back, and then be up at 4am again.

But enough of the excuses. I either will or won't. Pick up the tools or I won't. Get my soul hole or I won't.... But the Ol'Times know this.

I'll update, but I'll be here reading quitely.

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:) I like the update - thank you :) You are cared for, appreciated here - and I am grateful for your shares.

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Don't forget to take your 'spiritual tool kit' with you where ever you go ... Remember this ??? :




Pythonpappy



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Hey Frodo, ... Way to go ... Whoooo Hoooooo!


Your description of your first year??? .... How did you get that out of my personal files???? .... That was supposed to be kept private!! ... Just kidding of course, but your experiences this first year mirror mine exactly ... Way to hang in there ... take your 'spiritual' tool kit wherever you go ....


Love Ya and God Bless,
Pappy



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Welcome back Frodo. Whatever you did, it's been done before. All the rest is ego, leave it at the door. Welcome back Frodo

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I do remember Pap. I put mine in the shed a while ago. Time to dust it off and bring it out.

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OK. So I went to an AA meeting miles away from here just before Xmas.

It made no sense to me. None at all. I understood it all, but didn't feel it they way I used to. The words were just blah blah, even though those words once made my soul dance. I felt lonely, alone and a fraud for being there.

I was really baffled by that. I know it's me and not the program, but I'm so lost as to why it's me.

Anyway I shook my head for a week or so, and then figured maybe I'd picked the wrong group to start off with (even as I knew that wasn't the case) so I picked another.

Same thing.

So I randomly picked another and drove 4 hours to sit in it.

Same thing.

Nothing had changed except me. The message that saved my life was the same but this time it was as if someone was speaking French to me.

I really don't get it. I really don't.

But what I'm going to do is go to rehab. I'm working out time off for that right now. Maybe 3 weeks of that will help my soul get in tune with the planet again

I know I seem very scattered, fucked up and inconstant, but that is because I feel scattered, fucked up and inconstant.

Dunno if that makes sense to you but it makes some sort of sense to me, and I feel better for it.

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That's a very honest post, Frodo. A good sign.
You sound sick and tired of the merry-go-round.
Time to get off soon.

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Thank you for your honest post Frodo!  Best wishes to you!  Keep trying, that worked for me.  That's the only thing I did right in the first few years.  Just didn't give up, even when my head told me too.  Eventually, God graced me with recovery.  I know today, I needed all that happened, as painful as it was to happen.  I too needed a rehab(3 in fact) to get the physical withdrawal taken care of and a foundation for recovery.  It's not a fix, but it's a good start.  Love and support man!



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Be back later to comment ... gotta run ... sorry ...

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I'm scared. I say that truly and honestly. Words that once changed my life now look like squiggles on the paper and blah blah to my ears.

Why?

If you looked at me from the outside you'd slap my back and say 'good for you'

But if you looked inside...

For what shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his soul?

...

It's a question well worth the examination, at least for me

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Frodo, have faith and your recovery begins with forgiving yourself. You can do it, we all did.
May you find peace.

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Hey Frodo, Hey man, ...

I must say your very last question was/is very thought provoking ... It is also one of the final questions I asked myself about the time of my last rehab, years ago ... I was on the brink of losing everything, my family, my house, my cars, and most definitely, my own soul ...

I relate, only too well, to your expressions of feeling empty upon returning to the AA meetings (I went to rehab 4 times) ... You said : It made no sense to me. None at all. I understood it all, but didn't feel it they way I used to. The words were just blah blah, even though those words once made my soul dance. I felt lonely, alone and a fraud for being there. ... ... ... 'fraud' ... that described me perfectly early on ... I 'acted' as though I was 'gettin' it when I didn't have a clue ... and I went on to drink again, and again, and again ...

In Chapter 2, Bill knew exactly what he was talk'n 'bout when he said ...... "The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
The almost certain consequences that follow taking even a glass of beer do not crowd into the mind to deter us. If these thoughts occur, they are hazy and readily supplanted with the old threadbare idea that this time we shall handle ourselves like other people. There is a complete failure of the kind of defense that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove." ........

Just a note here, every time I did manage to tuck my tail and go back 'where everybody knew my name', my old AA group, they loved me back into the fold ... all it took was getting a little 'humble' ... They actually 'respected' me more that way, I think ... it's a show of honesty at realizing one is human and that someone else is a power greater than me ...

Don't 'rob' yourself of the old 'true love' your old group is just waiting to unload on you ...


Love ya man and God Bless,
Pappy



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Pap, you are 100% on the money. But I can't see my homegroup without getting my head right.

I pissed on them. I really did. They loved me and I repayed them with lies and half truths.

'Drinking? Me? Naw. I'm great. See the new car? See the house I just brought? Oh and did I tell you about the great OS holiday I just took my kids on? Drinking? How would a drunk do that?'

But I live in a tiny town and I know that they've seen me at the pub or bottleshop. My lies to them are a bad joke and I am so ashamed at becoming the person (again) that bald faced lies to those that love him.

It's why I need rehab before I see them again. I need to wash away this crud feeling I have and face them as a man that screwed up but who has a clean soul.

I don't know how much of that makes sense to you all, but to me it matters more than anything other than my kids. And I'm really not brave enough to do it anyother way.

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I know your self-forgiveness will come in time but I hope just a bit of this helps: Frodo, we all have the same disease and when we go out, all of us do those things you mentioned pretty much. The people in your home group will be fine. Probably 90 percent of them will be lit up (poor choice of words I know) just to see you in the meeting again. And then anyone else that might feel you disappointed them - well, we have words for that right? "I'm sorry" goes a long way sometimes. Again, I don't think you owe any of them an apology per say, but it would be done for you as elements of sort of a 5th step, 9th step, 10th step combo.

Getting sober again after having had time before is a different ball game. You will have to dig really deep and find spiritual answers and motivation that were not there before and, when you do, your sobriety will be even more wonderful and solid. I believe in you.

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Aloha Frodo good on you struggling for you. Thanks for the memories cause while some of our story is different much is the same and it comes down to "if I was able to find my way out of it so can anyone alcoholic".   I  hear myself trying to "think my way out of the disease" and then hearing an old timer tell me "You can't do that with the same head you drank with".  I remember looking for and at options of doing 'it" different than how the others were doing it because I just had to be different than them and then the old timers speaking about the fears they had which kept them from acceptance.  Dr. Bob's "Acceptance" on page 449 of the 3rd edition knocked the door between me and the program off its hinges and I found myself doing and asking for help face to face within the rooms in a way I could not fathom.  I would approach people I barely knew and say out loud "Can you help me please"??   I was never turned down and I struggled still.  9 years alcohol free I was sitting in a meeting and the last one to introduce myself.  I sat in the corner in the dark away from the group just like I use to drink and it came around to me identifying and I could not...just could not...and what they did was stopped the meeting and sat in silence as I overcame the paralysis of saying out loud for myself to hear in a group of my peers, "My name is Jerry F and I am alcoholic".  The meeting continued immediately and I have never ever had a problem being alcoholic since.  I have a life threatening disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions which can never be cured; only arrested by total abstinence. What assures my total abstinence is the fellowship of AA which I give to and get from daily.   smile



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Frodo and a bit wrote:

Pap, you are 100% on the money. But I can't see my homegroup without getting my head right.

I pissed on them. I really did. They loved me and I repayed them with lies and half truths.

'Drinking? Me? Naw. I'm great. See the new car? See the house I just brought? Oh and did I tell you about the great OS holiday I just took my kids on? Drinking? How would a drunk do that?'

But I live in a tiny town and I know that they've seen me at the pub or bottleshop. My lies to them are a bad joke and I am so ashamed at becoming the person (again) that bald faced lies to those that love him.

It's why I need rehab before I see them again. I need to wash away this crud feeling I have and face them as a man that screwed up but who has a clean soul.

I don't know how much of that makes sense to you all, but to me it matters more than anything other than my kids. And I'm really not brave enough to do it anyother way.


 Frodo, Hey man, ... 

Your story is no different than thousands of others in these rooms ... I was very active my 2nd time out of rehab, very active in my home group, coming up on 1 year ... decided I could drink again and could handle it ... blew off my whole group ... hey, I had a big house, 2 cars and a truck, a big bass boat, a hot rod, swimming pool, and many other things ... I couldn't be THAT bad, right ??? ... ... ... wrong, I WAS that bad and worse ... 

I got rid of a lot of that stuff, and today, I can't even tell you where they all went to ... seriously, they disappeared by me selling and giving stuff away and I don't even remember what happened to them ... material things is NOT the measure of a person's success ... love and friendship and God are more precious than gold ... 

These AA folks at our respective groups love us, unconditionally ... they understand ... are they disappointed in us??? ... sure ... who wouldn't be ... can they forgive us ??? ... yes, they can ... the Question here, is can you forgive you and pick yourself up by the bootstraps and get back in the lifeboat ??? ... AA didn't run off, we did ... 

So, small town??? ... SO ... what are you going to do, move across the country so you will never run into someone you know ??? ... I tried that too, guess what, that doesn't work either ... 

I had lied to my wife and my AA group so many times, even they figured there was very little 'hope' for me ... but came upon the right people at the right time in my last effort to get sober that I finally found a higher power of my understanding that had mercy on me and led me out of the abyss ... He's there for you too if your interested ... 

Is your family going to forgive you all at once???, ... not likely, even a few in the group may take some time ... It took for me what we call a 'living amends' ... just saying your sorry usually does NOT carry much weight ... but living the amends will ... and it WILL take patience AND time ... my dad had taken me out of his 'will' and then after about 4 years sober, decided I was worth putting back in it ... 

The AA program will give you back your dignity if you work at it as hard as you worked to keep yourself in booze and trying to hide it ... I promise you ... and I DO know a little of which I speak ...

Try to digest some of that and then let us know how you're do'n ... you are worth saving from a cruel and very painful alcoholic death ... which will come, sooner rather than later if you keep drink'n ... several close friends on this board are no longer with us cause they just simply couldn't look at the AA way of life with an 'open mind' ... I pray you can and will ...

 

I love you brother and God Bless,

Pappy

 

 

 



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Frodo... sweetheart... you are loved. do you forgive your children when they get scared and lie??? Of course. Offer yourself that same unconditional love tolerance and forgiveness. Hp already does. Your turn. Nothing stopping you but you... the false ego part of you that helped you survive but is no longer needed now. Set the survival skill down gently with love for yourself. You are so very precious. Xxxhugsxxx

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I'm trying to think my way through this, aren't I?

Hehehehe... sigh

There was a line I heard in the rooms that is tap, tap, tapping on my head right now:

My best thinking got me here.

I'm setting myself up to fail. I know that. Since I picked up all I've done is made excuses for why I can't get back into the system.

It really boils down to fear. Fear of looking like a failure. Fear of not getting it right (again). Fear of ... being human, I guess. Fear of having to say 'I lied and I ****ed up. But mostly the fear that because the last time I went through this I'd blown up my life so badly, and AA was the rock that I held onto to save myself from drowning, that without that guillotine hanging over me I won't embrace it like I did. How silly. How insane. I know that just because even though all is well on the outside, and I'm not drinking as I did last time around, that the inside is still broken and it's not getting better. And I know it'll get worse. I know that. But I'd rather fail in life than fail my ego in its weird world. Bizarre. Baffling.

But, anyway, I've spoken to HR and they'll give me a month of (paid) compassionate leave to do rehab in late march. Which is pretty cool. Nice if it was closer, but beggers can't be choosers, and until then I'll try not to screw up too much.

PS. Tash - you are such a beautiful soul. The people you meet each day must walk away happier, smilier, and with a sprinkling of fairy dust on them to help them fly. Thanks. You make me want to be a better person.



-- Edited by Frodo and a bit on Wednesday 4th of February 2015 10:42:57 AM

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Frodo, good work.

Go for it!



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Thanks for the update Frodo!  It's time to ignore your Ego(diesase) and get back in the saddle.  Your diesase wants nothing to do with a HP or AA.  It has no defense agianst it.  That's why it's telling you all these lies to keep you from going.  Yes, FEAR is the soil that feeds all our character defects and Ego.  I'm a re-tread also.  Was in and out for three years.  Not once, did the Fellowship tell me not to come back! smile  Many other people did, but not AA.  That's truly one of the many gifts of The Program.  I found out after I listened for awhile, that many other people had much woarse of a time than I did fully embracing Step One.  It was humbling, which I needed, I wasn't unique or different.  I was just an Alcoholic.

 



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Me too mike, ... me too ...



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So you got Tashed too!!  She's an HP tool Frodo.  Its acknowledgement that your HP loves you unconditionally and for that you are Tashed.   LOL  You've mentioned some awareness here that register with my story also; EGO and FEAR.  The acronym for FEAR after I was taught it helped me to experience it without being taken away by it.  The F E stand for False  Evidence...my head makes this stuff up, gathers it together and puts it in front of me and the  A  R stand for Appearing Real and that means I'm buying into it.   False   Evidence   Appearing   Real.  When I got a clear understanding of that acronym I lost justification for reaction or response to fear.   My 6th 4th step was a tap-root 4th meaning I was to search for and find the tap root of all of my problems which turned out to be just one word on the paper I handed my sponsor...EGO.  It has to be all about me.  Practicing of killing my ego and crushing my pride has tempered my understanding about me...it isn't and never ever was "all about me".  The lesson continues as I came to understand that the opposite emotion of fear for me becomes love as my Higher Power engaged me in learning that fear and love cannot exist at the same time in the same place.   If I fear it I cannot love it and if I love it I will not fear it.

One of my closest brothers in recovery has sixteen years of program/meetings and just received his 18 month chip.  I have been there since h is beginning and watched and listened each time he fought back for his sobriety.  He would regain his self love and drinking and using would loose their hold on him.  I listen to him especially when he talks about "the compulsions" and thank him for keeping me on the other side of the "relapse" door.  This morning he told our home group, "The compulsion to drinking and use again starts a long time before the drink or use".  He keeps me alert and with the rest of the fellowship has kept me sober also.

Keep coming back again.  Where you are at, what you are thinking and how you are feeling are normal for us alcoholics.  Having those and not drinking is the journey.

(((hugs))) smile



-- Edited by Jerry F on Saturday 7th of February 2015 11:15:42 PM

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Thanks all. I only ever cry when I read here, and I think that's not a bad thing. Here and AA are the only places I can really be me without fear that I won't measure up.

And I'm hiding from AA in case I wont measure up...

Heh.

What a mess of thinking.

And Jerry you are so spot on. Even though I've tried to keep true to the AA teachings I've watched myself become a petty arrogant turd since picking up again.

... my car is better than yours

... my house is better than yours

... my girl is better than yours

... I earn more than you do

Even as I say them I see myself as a scared little boy making noise in the hope people won't see how little he is.

Nobody has to reply. I don't come here for that, and I know I'm a broken record. I don't want or need sympathy. I don't want or need pats on the back. I do however very much need a smile and a friendly ear to listen to the bs I put you through.

If it wasn't for you gems I really don't know where I'd be.

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Mike B. wrote:

Thanks for the update Frodo!  It's time to ignore your Ego(diesase) and get back in the saddle.  Your diesase wants nothing to do with a HP or AA.  It has no defense agianst it.  That's why it's telling you all these lies to keep you from going.  Yes, FEAR is the soil that feeds all our character defects and Ego.  I'm a re-tread also.  Was in and out for three years.  Not once, did the Fellowship tell me not to come back! smile  Many other people did, but not AA.  That's truly one of the many gifts of The Program.  I found out after I listened for awhile, that many other people had much woarse of a time than I did fully embracing Step One.  It was humbling, which I needed, I wasn't unique or different.  I was just an Alcoholic.

 


  Thanks Mike. I cried reading that. Not from sorrow but because it's the truth and I've spent so much time hating myself for something my disease was making me do. I used to know all that. Where did it go? Where did I go? Where did my soul go?

 

I feel so empty these days, and only when I visit here do I feel a little human, but as take a drink my brain tells me I don't need you, and the emptiness is smotherd by another drink.



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iN SUPPORT AND PRAYER FRODO...................:)

 

 



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Frodo, ... I know the fear of going through another detox is nearly so overwhelming that it seems impossible ... but I'm tell'n ya that going through the final stage of an alcoholic death is noth'n but pure, outright, torture ... my last detox was nearly my last breath ... and I have some 'on-going' medical problems now that I attribute to my many years with my head in the bottle ...

Personally, I can't help but think of all the talents you possess that must be going to waste because the alcohol makes you not care, or perhaps it's just that it makes you want the drink above all else, like it did me ...

Come back and stick around your old 'home group' for a while ... you need that 'life-saver' from the boat ... learn to be human again, learn to love where there is now emptiness ... behind every alcoholic is a lost soul looking for answers, AA has those answers and we wish to give them to you free ...


Please allow us the pleasure of your company for a long time to come,
Love you brother and God Bless,
Pappy



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Good to hear from you. Lack of Power that is our dilemma. We combat fear with faith. Drinking caused a loss of spiritual values for me. People places and things can't buy me happiness. Self knowledge provides me no defense against the first drink or return to sanity. My daily plan for living has to be rooted in the faith of a higher power. That emptiness i can identify with. The black hole of nothingness the empty void where the soul goes to die. The donut hole with nothing to fill it in with. The despair, lost hope and the belief i was worthless and useful to no one. I filled all that with meetings and talking to people in the program. Filled it with reading a book or something constructive i enjoy or going for a run/ working out. Basically anything to occupy my mind to keep the hamster off the wheel running round and round. Basically I got sick of being sick and tired. Negative emotions are a good motivator to bring about positive change. We all dislike them but we can't have the good without the bad. I know i was told it isn't a fixing process its a healing process. We are not bad people people trying to be good we are sick people trying to get well. Healing takes time. The 12 steps are the solution to bring about this psychic change they speak of. I don't wish to ramble I haven't posted in a while and its good to hear your still around.


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Great AA principles. Good to to see you back, Enigma.



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Yeah Enigma, ... don't be such a stranger ...



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Taking the Daughter out today shopping since tomorrow is her B-day. "Air Jordan's " lol, kids... Somethings never change. I love spending time with my kids. Never thought I'd say that, feel comfortable around them or have the relationship I have with them. They come to me for advice and to talk. What a blessing. Can't figure when this all came about but it doesn't matter how or when. It just is!!

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Renewed relationships with family is one of the greatest joys I've been blessed with since staying with the AA program ... giving up this almighty 'everything is about me, me, me' was such a big fulfillment of the AA promises, that it seems a true miracle ...

Thanks for your post ... it always does my heart good to hear these true stories ...


Love ya and God Bless,
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Hey Frodo,
sorry to hear you are having such a rough time of it, and I hate to say it, having read your other posts here, but you home group is in the best position to help you through this. They know you better than we possibly can.

I was thinking about your experiences in those meetings and the book and feeling like they are talking a different language etc, and wondering what might be behind that. The Big Book tells us to continue to watchout for selfishness, ddishonesty, resentment and fear. When they crop up we ask God at once to remove them, and we make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone.

Why to they suggest that. In my experience it is becaiuse those things block us from the sunlight of the spirit, which means we cant feel Gods grace, we cant receive our spiritual inspiration, and perhaps the spiritual message that we used to hear in the meetings or read in the book, would no longer make any sense.

It was like that for me when I first came in before I took the steps, I really didn't understand anything about the spiritual solution, the big book mught as well have been in chinese. I had a head full of secrets that really made me feel apart from everyone else like the worst person in the room. I could be in a room full of caring people like you home group, and feel totally alone.

The story of Dr Bob also comes to mind as an example of what I am trying to convey. He didn't get sober immediately on Bills first visit. He accepted everything about the program except the amends part which he thought would ruin him (pride). He refused to make his amends, he got drunk. Then he made his amends and stayed sober. There is also a great story on page 80 about making amends to a group of people for harms done to one of their number. Very inspiring.

These are just my suggestions, things to think about, but it seemed to me that selfishness, dishonesty and fear at the very least have cropped up in your relationship with your home group, probably with a fair bit of pride thrown in. You seem to feel you have hurt them so amends would seem to be in order. Perhaps a prayer to ask God to remove these blocks and give you the strength to make these amends would help. Its worth a try.

The problem of being blocked is a serious one, just about the most serious that an alcoholic can experience. It usually happens because there is something God wants us to do or not do, and we are refusing to do it, or refusing to stop. I hope you can find something in this that will help.

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Welcome back Frodo!!

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And to you too Pablo, ... where you been ???



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Sending kids off to college and all!! Life being life, and not checking in more often, like I should!!
I usually can check in here around the vacation days, read some posts and all. Trying to be of service when I can. All in all, I do miss this positive place. It would do me good to engage in here more.
So, I have not been anywhere different, in regards to program and all, just not here!!
As I posted before, celebrated my 10 years sober a couple days ago. Not something I felt was possible in my drinking days.
That's why seeing Frodo and all the love vibes he is getting made me want to linger here a bit longer.
I think we all need more positive input in our lives.
Helping others in their struggle which is also our struggle is an important part of being in service.
Seeing everyone and reading posts is good for me to see the support on this site.
God Bless all the support here, MIP is a real place that exists, I need to check in more often and lend an ear and post some words!!

Frodo, you will make it if you work a program of recovery, your family here loves you and understands you better than most people in the world.
We have been where you are and can tell you honestly that life without alcohol is better than a diseased life with alcohol!!
My ten years is as valuable as one day if I forget to live in my recovery.

Thanks for asking Pappy!!


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All riiiiight, ... now that sounds like the Pablo I remember ... encouraging someone else to do the right thing ...


Love ya brother,
Pappy



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Love you paisan,
Pablo

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