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Post Info TOPIC: Struggling


MIP Old Timer

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Struggling
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I realize this is a contraversial issue, but I know it helps to talk about my problems and maybe help someone else along the way.  Was on Celexa for 10+ years and my first 6 + years of sobriety. Celexa- Depression & Anti Anxiety medication.  Also, used for OCD.  Last Spring, it seemed to stop working as well(more off days) and I thought I would give a go at going without it.  The off days were manageable, just not as good as they used to be. Slightly more anxiety leading to a feeling of depression. I think peer pressure contributed to this finding.  Figured if I feel this way I rather not be on anything.  I followed Dr's weaning process for several months.  I'm a very active member of AA:  God, Steps, Sponsor, Sponsee's, Service Work, Meetings and read a lot of AA literature.

After being weaned, I started to get obessive thoughts to the extreme.  Coming in waves- never felt them like this since prior to being on the meds.  Looking back, I guess I forgot about them.  I couldn't let go of them.  Anxiety mounted and panic set it. Panic to the point of being paralyzed. Racing pulse, tight chest and impulsive.  Looking back they go back to my childhood.  I thought they were left behind.   My doctor refered me to a Psychiatrist.  Informed him up front that I'm a recovering Alcoholic.  He couldn't believe that I was never diagnosed with OCD? Maybe I was and just don't remember.  Don't know at this point.   I guess the Celexa was working the whole time, just didn't know it until I came off it.  The OCD leads to Anxiety then I get worn out which leads to Depression.  I was started on Zoloft.  Weaning on process.  Takes a while to take effect.  I'm still doing the leg work in The Program but this is wearing my a** out.   I feel so separated from AA and my HP.  Now I have the debating committee going off in my head because some of the symptoms are very similiar to Alcoholism.  There's a lot of overlap.  The difference is to the extreme I feel.  So the debating committee starts in- OCD/Anxiety and Alcoholism or just Alcoholism?  On and On......  Nothing has changed in my life or with The Program.  WTF?  I have other's(old timers) telling me sounds like Alcoholism to me.  Makes it hard to talk about with others that may not understand.  Very frustrating because they're not in my shoes. 

Anyone have any experience with this?



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MIP Old Timer

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Of course we're not doctors, (and even if we were, we're not YOUR doctor) but to your question 'does anyone else have experience with this?' the answer is yes. Lots of people, alcoholic or not, who have been taking these types of meds will experience episodes where the meds seem to stop working or the effects produced by the meds change in some undesirable way. This is something that your doctor has probably already made you aware of. The way to resolve this varies in each individual case (changing meds, changing dose, seeking additional types of health care services, etc.), and that makes it an issue that must be worked out between you and your doctor and other health care providers. Like most other health care issues, this just takes some time to get resolved. But it's not an unusual situation.



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MIP Old Timer

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davep12and12 wrote:

The way to resolve this varies in each individual case (changing meds, changing dose, seeking additional types of health care services, etc.), and that makes it an issue that must be worked out between you and your doctor and other health care providers. Like most other health care issues, this just takes some time to get resolved. But it's not an unusual situation.


 This is solid advice, which I heartily second. A person very close to me had similar difficulties. It astonished me that she would occasionally think it a great idea to cease taking prescribed meds. She went through unsettling periods and I could never really help, except to suggest and encourage her to consult regularly with the doc.

That's what Mike B. is doing and that is the wisest option. I worry a bit about the "peer pressure" referred to above. If it is from the stereotypical hard line AA old timers, well, that complicates things.

I wish you quick resolution of the issues with the doctor(s).

The Big Book tells us to take our medical and psychological problems to medical and psychological care givers.Thanks for sharing.

 



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MIP Old Timer

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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Mike))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


What a brave post - and thank you for sharing. Just yesterday this was a portion of the days meditation in the 24 hr a day book:

Meditation for the Day

We need to accept the difficulties and disciplines of life so as to fully share the common life of other people. Many things that we must accept in life are not to be taken so much as being necessary for us personally, as to be experienced in order that we may share in the sufferings and problems of humanity. We need sympathy and understanding. We must share many of the experiences of life, in order to understand and sympathize with others. Unless we have been through the same experiences, we cannot understand other people or their makeup well enough to be able to help them.

Prayer for the Day

I pray that I may accept everything that comes my way as a part of life. I pray that I may make use of it in helping other people. From Twenty-Four Hours a Day ©1975




I hope you do seek out others who can relate to the growth opportunity you're being presented - so YES - you continue to bless others with your help and experience :) Bless you dear one.

For me, I can't offer a shared experience, but what I am learning is that I appreciate others trying to show me what they're going through so I am better able to offer support and love. It reminds me to share the experience I have when you post like you have above. I think it's harder to be vulnerable - the longer you have 'in'. It reminds me that we are all newbies to Today. Love you so much xooox

Please keep on sharing about this.




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Hi Mike,

I have experience both with and without meds for depression/anxiety both before and during my sobriety.  At this time, I am not on any meds.   Here is what I found with my experience.  First, someone who has to ask why I am depressed, has never had clinical depression.  I don't need a reason.  It just comes with the package of being me.  SSRI meds are great at getting me out of the rut but they are hell on me when I begin the process of reducing the dose and when they come to an end altogether.  It can take me as long as 6 months to get things stabilize in my brain after I come off of them.  I believe this is simply because adjusting to the change of how the chemical compound of the meds work in my brain, and it having to reroute its method of functioning and learning how to live within the frame work of how my brain functions without it.

Now, some history.  I came into recovery and as a part of getting the funding for treatment they required I have a dual diagnosis, which a lot of insurance companies still do.  Why?  Because the prognosis for treating just alcoholism successfully is so low by their standards that they can only justify the expense by treating what they deem to be more viable prognosis.  Well, I started taking an SSRI antidepressant.... and they were to be working  seemingly very well.  However, after a year or so, I decided I didn't need them and suddenly stopped.i  What a big mistake.  I literally plunged into a state of depression and anxiety that was outside the scope of any thing I had ever experienced in my life.  You said it..."Paralyzed".  I also experienced feeling disconnected from my HP and AA as a whole, even though I was still going through all the motions of being a active member.  It took me the better part of a year to just get comfortable in my own skin, after ending the med treatment.

I have been sober now for 25 years.  I do suffer from clinical depression and severe anxiety.  I have been on meds for it 3 times in that 25 year time frame.  Each time, only for a period of 6 months to a year. (Doctors do help me get off them properly by weaning me off)  I have learned how to live within the frame work of who and what I am for the most part.  I have learned some ways to work through a lot of the episodes of depression/anxiety.  As time goes by I have found that my depression and/or anxiety doesn't have the intensity it once had, the duration of the episode isn't as long, and the frequency of the episodes has gotten farther and farther apart.  But when they come, and are bigger than what I can handle, I am not afraid to get professional help.  I have had to get help in the past year.  And I do know that when I am ready to end a medication treatment, I know its not going to be a easy task to deal with for a while.  The wiring in my darn brain is going to have to have time to adjust to the change ... again.

Here is one thing I do know for a fact... that a drink won't help me.  I can find a way to get through anything that comes my way, as long as I don't drink any alcohol.  

I hope you are able to find your balance in the mix of being an alcoholic with mental health issues or disorders.  Like I said, learning how to live inside the frame work of who and what I am, and being willing to get the treatment I need at the time I need it.. be it in the rooms of AA or the office of a Dr.  (and most likely both) has been a life saver for me.  Without both, the quality of my life would be horrendous.  

Today, I am happy, joyous and free.  

I can comprehend the word "Serenity".

John 

 



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MIP Old Timer

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Yes - Alcoholics do have obsessive thinking and the compulsive behaviors they have are typically to drink and those in recovery...well we are pretty compulsive about a lot of things too.

The difference between this and actual OCD is profound though. The obsessions are way way more intense - They are much more intrusive and sometimes do not even make sense (as would be the case with obsessive germ fear, obsessive counting, organizing, hoarding). The types of intrusive thoughts that alcoholics have are generalized. Also the rituals that a person with OCD engages in to relieve the obsessions are way more intense. Alcoholics do not have to wash their hands 500 times a day, check things over and over, count things....There is a difference.

Also, presuming you have been in the program a long time, have availed yourself of the steps, having a sponsor and working the program to the fullest, and yet you still have massive amounts of panic and anxiety, it is likely not due to untreated alcoholism because your alcoholism IS being treated.

It's good that Alcoholics can identify with being depressed, obsessing over things, worrying....and the program has useful tools for coping. BUT - some people do make the mistake of thinking that their brand of depression, obsessing, and worrying is the same as yours and yours may be a clinical condition/mental health disorder that they have zero knowledge and experience with but think that they do. This has been a problem with society for a LONG time. Same with alcoholism. "Normal" drinkers sometimes judge us because they can stop and figure we just have a moral deficiency or poor will power. Again - People who haven't walked in your shoes do not know what you go through...even the ones that think they are in your shoes but are actually not.

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MIP Old Timer

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Thank you all for sharing your experience and love.  That's what I love about this board.  I'm coming to terms with accepting my dual diagnosis and will treat each accordingly.  It's wierd how the obsessive part of this disorder works.  I rarely questioned or felt a need to defend being on meds before- prior to getting sober or in sobriety.  Why now?  I need to do what I feel is right for me.  I no longer need to suffer.  No one deserves that. 



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MIP Old Timer

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By sharing this - you are likely going to save lives out there... thank you thank you. I know that if I ever need to seek medical help for such things... I can do so proudly. Taking care of yourself shows healthy self worth, self esteem - value and healthy pride in the gift of life that you have been given from a higher power beyond all human comprehension.

Love you xoxoxo

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MIP Old Timer

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MikeB, hugs to you. I know what you mean about medication. There's such a feeling of freedom with giving up other substances that there's this 'wait, do I NEED this?' feeling about prescribed medication. I've seen it happen with many people in the program! I have tried to come off anti-depressants a number of times and it's never gone very well. I'm now in a place where I see medication for mental disorders as what it is: medicine! If a person has diabetes we would never think 'maybe they shouldn't take insulin'. It's the same with OCD, depression, anxiety, etc.

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