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Or anything about sponsors at all for that matter? In fact there seems to be many things that have been added to the program that the original founders didn't feel necessary for them to recovery from alcoholism. And it seems these new additions have just become accepted as AA fact, as in that's the way it's always been. I think im going to approach the program in the following way: "Is it in the big book? No? Then please keep your silly bumper sticker slogans and personal interpretation to yourself thank you very much.". In my humble opinion there are too many AA folksxwho think they have all the answers. Who think they're understanding of the program is the end all be all. They're pushy and bossy to newcomers. They shove unsolicited, often unhelpful advice down people's throats. Their egos are out of control and they think they're infallible experts on alcoholism and recovery. It's my "program" and I think I'll do things the way those who founded it intended.
I am the storm after the calm.
It doesn't mention the word sponsor once in the original text of the Big Book. They talk about carrying the message and helping those that still suffer quite a bit. Dr. Bob...Co founder...Took over 5000 people through the steps....I guess you could call him one of the original sponsors...Bill W...Called his friend Ebby...The one that explained to him the solution at his kitchen table in Bill's story...His sponsor till his death.I look at it like this butterfinger. If I wanted to learn to fly a plane and they handed me a book of directions...And they said...You can do this on your own...Or if you want...There are plenty of people that have done it that would love to show you how...Out of the kindness of their hearts..Take your pick. I think I'd grab myself a pilot. Whatever you do...Have a great flight!
When all else fails...Follow the directions.
Rants are appreciated. and thanks for giving me a thinker!!
Sometimes Fences Need To Be Built.
A new thought.
memasue wrote:I feel like its do or die.
I feel like its do or die.
That sure had something to do with my atitude.
Butterfinger wrote:Or anything about sponsors at all for that matter? In fact there seems to be many things that have been added to the program that the original founders didn't feel necessary for them to recovery from alcoholism. And it seems these new additions have just become accepted as AA fact, as in that's the way it's always been. I think im going to approach the program in the following way: "Is it in the big book? No? Then please keep your silly bumper sticker slogans and personal interpretation to yourself thank you very much.". In my humble opinion there are too many AA folksxwho think they have all the answers. Who think they're understanding of the program is the end all be all. They're pushy and bossy to newcomers. They shove unsolicited, often unhelpful advice down people's throats. Their egos are out of control and they think they're infallible experts on alcoholism and recovery. It's my "program" and I think I'll do things the way those who founded it intended.
The book doesn't come out and say anything on 'sponsorship' directly ... but as you read of how AA came about and how it works, it's basically one alcoholic helping another to get and stay sober ... what better term for this than 'sponsorship' ??? ... A sponsor is merely a 'guide' ... someone with the very same malady that has learned to successfully live in recovery ...
Who is better able to assist the new-comer ??? ... ... ... To me?" ... 'Sponsorship' is simply 'common sense' here ... I have seen those who come to meetings all the time and don't have a sponsor ... some rack up some sobriety, but mostly they have a poor foundation for their sobriety and many fail in the end ... and I thought, wow, I want the best chance I can get for sobriety, ergo, I got a sponsor ... this kind of 'one-on-one' contact, and relationship, is invaluable ...
Oh, and welcome to MIP memasue ...
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
pinkchip wrote: Call your sponsor and do what they say. Your busted thinker got you into this mess. Furthermore, slacking off and calling your sponsor 1 x a month is also bad practice and I don't care if you worked the steps already or not. It's about a lifestyle and psychic change. If you worked the steps right you would remain accountable. and not snatch your will back and stop calling (maybe daily is not necessary but monthly?? Not enough).
Call your sponsor and do what they say. Your busted thinker got you into this mess. Furthermore, slacking off and calling your sponsor 1 x a month is also bad practice and I don't care if you worked the steps already or not. It's about a lifestyle and psychic change. If you worked the steps right you would remain accountable. and not snatch your will back and stop calling (maybe daily is not necessary but monthly?? Not enough).
I have to disagree with you here PC....No human power keeps me sober. My relationship with my sponsor is fine....He did his job....Now I have to do mine. Be there for someone that wants guidance working the steps. It's like when I hear people say...I have to go to a meeting everyday to remain sober....It makes me cringe. My solution is having had a spiritual awakening as THE result of those steps....And remaining in fit spritual condition...By practicing those principles in all my affairs....I know I don't see anything in those directions about how often I should call my sponsor...If there was such a need I'm sure it would have been included. I'm picturing Dr. Bob fielding 5000 phone calls a day....Didn't happen.
All I can give is my actual experience. When I came into AA, it was MY Program. I was going to do it MY way. I learned this is the EGO I brought it. Running on Self Will, Defiance, Independence and Prejudiced. I was closed minded, not teachable and somehow thought I was different than everyone else(Unique). This in essence is the selfish and self centered behavoir that define me as an Alcoholic. I also questioned the suggestions offered and always needed to know WHY? I picked and chose the one's I thought I liked. Bottomline, there was no recovery and no long term sobriety. Half measures availed me nothing. Huh, once again MY plan didn't work.
Because of Pain- physical, mental, emotional and spiritual- I hit a cross road. Was it going to be MY Program or The Program. I liked what I saw in others. So, I choose The Program. I threw my EGO, theories and prejudices aside and follow directions from those who walked the path before me. Why choose a different path up the mountain if a well marked trial already exist? Because, that's what WE do as Alcoholics. Bottomline, MY Sponsor saved my ASS! Not only did he bring me up the trial step by step(12 Steps), he taught me about the diesase of Alcoholism that I didn't get in meetings. He also taught me how to carrying the message to other Alcoholics. He was there to assist with practicing all The Principles in my daily affairs. He was there for affirmation and corrections when needed. He also was there to assist with navigating life events. Events that he already went through. Why learn from others(wisdom) when I can fall on my face, get hurt and maybe learn on my own? Because that's what WE do as Alcoholics. I still have and talk with MY Sponsor, my guide. This diesase is subtle, cunning, baffling and powerful. I want the transmission line open so when new events in my life materialize- I will have someone that knows me well and can help me get through tough times.
Although the BB doesn't mention Sponsorship in the main text of the BB(1939)- it does so in dozens of places in the personal stories included in the various editions of the book. Sponsorship is also mentioned and suggested in many of the AA approved literature published after the BB was written.
Thanks Mike B, ... you said what I was trying to come up with ... very well put ...
"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
Close friend of Bill W. since 1989
Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I am very new, but my thoughts are this. I have failed many a tests in school skipping class and missing the lessons from the teacher thinking i'd just read the text book to pass the test.
I really can't afford to fail this test, nor do I just want to JUST be sober. I want to change my life and how I think for the better, which means I need to go through the steps the right way. Hopefully I listen good enough to those sharing in meetings and can see the ones who will be able to take me through the steps as they are laid out in the BB. Hopefully they also had a teacher who did the same and so on.
By changing nothing, nothing changes.
Simply How I Think is the problem..(S.H.I.T)
Tell me something, could you ever imagine Bill W. or Dr. Bob wishing a relapse on someone for questioning them or struggling with some aspect of recovery?
The Big Book tells us that Bill & Bob suggested that if you think you still know what is going on and can manage your own affairs to go out and try a year or so of controlled drinking and see how that works.
"AA appears to have developed a collective attitude of "tough love" where old timers seem to think treating "noobs" like wayward children is the norm."
Painting AA with a pretty wide brush there ..... In the 25 yrs I've been around the noobs are treated exactly as required. If you are treated as a wayward child you may want to ask your sponsor why.
You will do yourself a very big favor if you don't make blanket comments like above ... and believe them.
All the best.
You can choose to think of a sponsor as some kind of AA parole officer who you allow to monitor and direct every aspect of your day to day life. So you abdicate all personal responsibility to someone else, and then get fed up with that situation and end up with no sponsor again.
Or you can choose to think of a sponsor as someone who has worked the 12 steps and, as a result, has experienced the Promises in their life and has achieved some serenity and is living comfortably without feeling the desire to drink, and is willing to help others to do the same. And you ask this person to show you how to do that, and you pay attention to them and you follow their directions about how to work the steps and you get the same results they got.
Or of course you can try to 'work a program' on your own and not get any directions or help with the steps from others who have already done what you are trying to do, but that's kind of like trying to learn to ride a bike by reading a book about bicycles. Up to you.
Sponsorship is mentioned several times in the book "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions".
In one of the 'treatment centers' I went to, they took us out in the woods, blind-folded, and put our hand on a rope ... then they told us we can ask anything we want, but it was up to us to find our way out ... I was one of the few that found the way out, most did not ...The 'way out' ... ... ... ask someone for help!!!!! (admitting I could not do this alone, I simply said I need help ... that got me out ... oh, we had to raise our hand if we wanted to ask a question, then an aide came over and whispered so others couldn't hear) ... (what an 'eye-opening' experience)
Tipsy McStagger, is that you
Walking with curiosity.
Page 96 ...
Suppose now you are making your second visit to a man. He has read this volume and says he is prepared to go through with the Twelve Steps of the program of recovery. Having had the experience yourself, you can give him much practical advice. Let him know you are available if he wishes to make a decision and tell his story, but do not insist upon it if he prefers to consult someone else.
RubyTues wrote:Hi Butterfinger, The way I see it, your will and your way and your ideas about how things should be done got you into this place. I bristled against people telling me what to do at first, and then I surrendered and just did it, because I wanted what they had. I did what my sponsor told me to do. What's the worst that can happen? It doesn't work?
Hi Butterfinger, The way I see it, your will and your way and your ideas about how things should be done got you into this place. I bristled against people telling me what to do at first, and then I surrendered and just did it, because I wanted what they had. I did what my sponsor told me to do. What's the worst that can happen? It doesn't work?
Great share/post RubyT ... ... ... loved it ... I can definitely relate ...
Welcome to MIP Chris, ... sounds like you've been around the block a time or two ... I especially like Stepchild's post here, 3rd down from the top ... man, I miss him ...
I am , at times in a position of authority , that could mean life or death.
I ASK Those around me , there opinion , I also ask them , is there anything , they think . I have missed.
I encourage those around me to Tell me of changes that may affect us all , in these situations.
I surprised a learned man years ago when I said these words.
"Each time I take you guys out . I promise Myself , that I will bring you home safely"
He said . That is a big statement to make . I asked what do you mean Frank. He said . How can you say you promise to bring us home safely.
I said Frank . I promise MYSELF . Not you . As I Know I can live up to my standards . But I may not live up to yours.
Bottom line . I NEED You More Today , than when I first did , over twenty yrs ago.